Please help me with a build.

Kng_Ayumayuma

Edit add: I'm building as a tank.
This started in another thread. I didn't want to hijack that thread so here we are! (anymore than I already have)
I've been reading @Zodiarkslayer, @fred4, and @SirLeeMinion. Among others.
The first 50 levels (and more really. Just doing quests.), I found, I can roll just about anything and play the game. But when trying to survive tougher content (solo) its a different tune. There is more to it than DPS. I'm not that great of a player. As far as I know weaving is the making of textile products.

I have started a new 2H/2H Nord Sorc based from Fred4's info that is a link in the thread above. Zodiarkslayer gives some stats to aim for. One being 25k health. My lvl 18 Nord is already at 25k. I'm using Whitestrakes 5pcs, Hist Whisperers 5 pcs, and Order's Wrath 2 pcs (weapons).

I'm wondering how to distribute points? Continue putting in health? At this level its easy to run out of stam but using magicka and light 2H I can manage. In other words I don't have a stam or mag spamable. At this point the spamable is the light 2H. Will it always be that way?
Based on stats below what do I need to focus on next?
Also can you recommend a base dungeon to start in after I get the build level up higher? I don't have plus.
I'm already seeing a benefit to lots of health.
Am I wasting a slot on the Clannfear?

My stats

El_Borracho

Are you a Level 21? I only ask because you only have 21 attribute points.

If you are looking for an easy solo build that can do something like VMA, heavy attack magsorcs are generally the best bet. Werewolves are good for stamina builds. Pretty much any PVP build can be turned into a PVE overland build with an armor swap from Impen to Divines. Health around 20K is the norm. The main things you want to focus on are penetration, damage, and sustain

Any base dungeon works. Fungal 1 is almost a joke at this point, especially if you have a companion.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

I will say a couple of general things.

First, I am of the camp that the best defense is a good offense. This game favors spec'ing mostly into damage in PVE unless you are playing a tank/healer in 4 man content or you are trying to solo vet content that is designed for 4 people. Even vet solo arenas favor a DPS setup first and foremost.

Second, don't get to worked up at low level over you gear. Until you are max level with 160 CP, you should not waste a single gold coin on your setup (unless of course its your 5th alt and you are already rich). This game battle levels you so much that you just wont notice it.

Third, for 99% of PVE content, Orders Wrath is the best set you can get outside of trial gear. Wear 5 pieces of it. You basically have one tank set and one "utility" set (regen and some heals). It's overkill on survival and at some point, becomes self defeating. The longer a fight takes, the more you need defense and healing. DPS equals a shorter fight. I am going to suggest run two Damage sets, or perhaps a damage set and a utility set, maybe something like Briarheart that gives damage and heals and Orders Wrath for straight damage. If you absolutely need a tanky set, pair with a damage set (orders wrath).

Fourth, dont get too caught up on a baseline amount of health. 25k is frankly more than enough for almost any PVE activity unless you are tanking or soling vet 4-man content. If you are going 2H/2H, I would put every point into stamina. I wouldnt suggest redundant weapons on both bars, especially when leveling, but regardless, skills scale off your highest offensive stat (magic or stam) and there is rarely a good reason to split points. A few into health is okay, but after that, go all into one. If 2H, bow or DW, go stam, if a staff, go magic.

Kng_Ayumayuma

El_Borracho wrote: »

Are you a Level 21? I only ask because you only have 21 attribute points.

If you are looking for an easy solo build that can do something like VMA, heavy attack magsorcs are generally the best bet. Werewolves are good for stamina builds. Pretty much any PVP build can be turned into a PVE overland build with an armor swap from Impen to Divines. Health around 20K is the norm. The main things you want to focus on are penetration, damage, and sustain

Any base dungeon works. Fungal 1 is almost a joke at this point, especially if you have a companion.

Level 18. You get extra points once in a while.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I will say a couple of general things.

First, I am of the camp that the best defense is a good offense. This game favors spec'ing mostly into damage in PVE unless you are playing a tank/healer in 4 man content or you are trying to solo vet content that is designed for 4 people. Even vet solo arenas favor a DPS setup first and foremost.

Second, don't get to worked up at low level over you gear. Until you are max level with 160 CP, you should not waste a single gold coin on your setup (unless of course its your 5th alt and you are already rich). This game battle levels you so much that you just wont notice it.

Third, for 99% of PVE content, Orders Wrath is the best set you can get outside of trial gear. Wear 5 pieces of it. You basically have one tank set and one "utility" set (regen and some heals). It's overkill on survival and at some point, becomes self defeating. The longer a fight takes, the more you need defense and healing. DPS equals a shorter fight. I am going to suggest run two Damage sets, or perhaps a damage set and a utility set, maybe something like Briarheart that gives damage and heals and Orders Wrath for straight damage. If you absolutely need a tanky set, pair with a damage set (orders wrath).

Fourth, dont get too caught up on a baseline amount of health. 25k is frankly more than enough for almost any PVP activity unless you are tanking or soling vet 4-man content. If you are going 2H/2H, I would put every point into stamina. I wouldnt suggest redundant weapons on both bars, especially when leveling, but regardless, skills scale off your highest offensive stat (magic or stam) and there is rarely a good reason to split points. A few into health is okay, but after that, go all into one. If 2H, bow or DW, go stam, if a staff, go magic.

I am building this as a tank (1st one). Forgot to mention that. Added it in OP.
All my other builds are, all points in stam or mag. Zero in health. Thats not working very well with tougher opponents. I thought I would look at something different. I'm not that great of a player.

I know most of this doesn't matter before 50. Just trying to learn for that time. I have about 260 CP already. Two alts 50+.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Kng_Ayumayuma wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Are you a Level 21? I only ask because you only have 21 attribute points.

If you are looking for an easy solo build that can do something like VMA, heavy attack magsorcs are generally the best bet. Werewolves are good for stamina builds. Pretty much any PVP build can be turned into a PVE overland build with an armor swap from Impen to Divines. Health around 20K is the norm. The main things you want to focus on are penetration, damage, and sustain

Any base dungeon works. Fungal 1 is almost a joke at this point, especially if you have a companion.

Level 18. You get extra points once in a while.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I will say a couple of general things.

First, I am of the camp that the best defense is a good offense. This game favors spec'ing mostly into damage in PVE unless you are playing a tank/healer in 4 man content or you are trying to solo vet content that is designed for 4 people. Even vet solo arenas favor a DPS setup first and foremost.

Second, don't get to worked up at low level over you gear. Until you are max level with 160 CP, you should not waste a single gold coin on your setup (unless of course its your 5th alt and you are already rich). This game battle levels you so much that you just wont notice it.

Third, for 99% of PVE content, Orders Wrath is the best set you can get outside of trial gear. Wear 5 pieces of it. You basically have one tank set and one "utility" set (regen and some heals). It's overkill on survival and at some point, becomes self defeating. The longer a fight takes, the more you need defense and healing. DPS equals a shorter fight. I am going to suggest run two Damage sets, or perhaps a damage set and a utility set, maybe something like Briarheart that gives damage and heals and Orders Wrath for straight damage. If you absolutely need a tanky set, pair with a damage set (orders wrath).

Fourth, dont get too caught up on a baseline amount of health. 25k is frankly more than enough for almost any PVP activity unless you are tanking or soling vet 4-man content. If you are going 2H/2H, I would put every point into stamina. I wouldnt suggest redundant weapons on both bars, especially when leveling, but regardless, skills scale off your highest offensive stat (magic or stam) and there is rarely a good reason to split points. A few into health is okay, but after that, go all into one. If 2H, bow or DW, go stam, if a staff, go magic.

I am building this as a tank (1st one). Forgot to mention that. Added it in OP.
All my other builds are, all points in stam or mag. Zero in health. Thats not working very well with tougher opponents. I thought I would look at something different. I'm not that great of a player.

I know most of this doesn't matter before 50. Just trying to learn for that time. I have about 260 CP already. Two alts 50+.

Something to think about.

A tank in ESO is a role that only makes sense in 4 man content. It makes very little sense to level as a tank. Level as a DPS. Keep one Sword and Board skill on your main bar at all times. This will level your sword and shield. A tank likely also wants to level a destro staff, you can do the same thing with that as well. If you put a S+B skill on your front bar and say equip a 2H, you wont be able to cast the S+B skill, but the skill will level, as will the weapon line. Once the skill can be morphed, slot the next one in the weapon line. You can do something similar with the armor. Equip enough armor to unlock the the heavy armor line, but then you only need to wear one piece of it, and every time you get XP, your armor line will level.

When I level a new character. I make sure to unlock all three armor lines, and wear at least one piece of each so all level. I make sure to have one skill from each of 3 class skill lines on my front bar so all those lines level. I will often equip a weapon skill from a line I am not currently using, so that levels as well. It can make for some interesting bar setups at times, but it allows you to hit level 50 with all your class skill lines and 1-2 weapons lines at max level, and all your skills ready to be morphed.

If questing, you can also go the route of a turn in bar. Before you turn in a quest, equip whatever skill/weapon lines you want leveld= and then turn in the quest. Remember this isnt other ES titles. You dont need to use a skill to level it, it just needs to be on your bar when you get experience. So you could play mostly on your front bar, stack your back bar with the skills you want to level, and just be sure to bar swap to your back bar before you turn in a quest. On PC, there are addons to help with this is well.

Leveling as a tank is just painful if I am being honest. When you are solo, its on you to kill stuff. Only time I would go full tank is if you want to hop into a groupfinder dungeon as a tank. Then, slap on a S+B and a taunt and tank away.

Kng_Ayumayuma

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Kng_Ayumayuma wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Are you a Level 21? I only ask because you only have 21 attribute points.

If you are looking for an easy solo build that can do something like VMA, heavy attack magsorcs are generally the best bet. Werewolves are good for stamina builds. Pretty much any PVP build can be turned into a PVE overland build with an armor swap from Impen to Divines. Health around 20K is the norm. The main things you want to focus on are penetration, damage, and sustain

Any base dungeon works. Fungal 1 is almost a joke at this point, especially if you have a companion.

Level 18. You get extra points once in a while.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I will say a couple of general things.

First, I am of the camp that the best defense is a good offense. This game favors spec'ing mostly into damage in PVE unless you are playing a tank/healer in 4 man content or you are trying to solo vet content that is designed for 4 people. Even vet solo arenas favor a DPS setup first and foremost.

Second, don't get to worked up at low level over you gear. Until you are max level with 160 CP, you should not waste a single gold coin on your setup (unless of course its your 5th alt and you are already rich). This game battle levels you so much that you just wont notice it.

Third, for 99% of PVE content, Orders Wrath is the best set you can get outside of trial gear. Wear 5 pieces of it. You basically have one tank set and one "utility" set (regen and some heals). It's overkill on survival and at some point, becomes self defeating. The longer a fight takes, the more you need defense and healing. DPS equals a shorter fight. I am going to suggest run two Damage sets, or perhaps a damage set and a utility set, maybe something like Briarheart that gives damage and heals and Orders Wrath for straight damage. If you absolutely need a tanky set, pair with a damage set (orders wrath).

Fourth, dont get too caught up on a baseline amount of health. 25k is frankly more than enough for almost any PVP activity unless you are tanking or soling vet 4-man content. If you are going 2H/2H, I would put every point into stamina. I wouldnt suggest redundant weapons on both bars, especially when leveling, but regardless, skills scale off your highest offensive stat (magic or stam) and there is rarely a good reason to split points. A few into health is okay, but after that, go all into one. If 2H, bow or DW, go stam, if a staff, go magic.

I am building this as a tank (1st one). Forgot to mention that. Added it in OP.
All my other builds are, all points in stam or mag. Zero in health. Thats not working very well with tougher opponents. I thought I would look at something different. I'm not that great of a player.

I know most of this doesn't matter before 50. Just trying to learn for that time. I have about 260 CP already. Two alts 50+.

Something to think about.

A tank in ESO is a role that only makes sense in 4 man content. It makes very little sense to level as a tank. Level as a DPS. Keep one Sword and Board skill on your main bar at all times. This will level your sword and shield. A tank likely also wants to level a destro staff, you can do the same thing with that as well. If you put a S+B skill on your front bar and say equip a 2H, you wont be able to cast the S+B skill, but the skill will level, as will the weapon line. Once the skill can be morphed, slot the next one in the weapon line. You can do something similar with the armor. Equip enough armor to unlock the the heavy armor line, but then you only need to wear one piece of it, and every time you get XP, your armor line will level.

When I level a new character. I make sure to unlock all three armor lines, and wear at least one piece of each so all level. I make sure to have one skill from each of 3 class skill lines on my front bar so all those lines level. I will often equip a weapon skill from a line I am not currently using, so that levels as well. It can make for some interesting bar setups at times, but it allows you to hit level 50 with all your class skill lines and 1-2 weapons lines at max level, and all your skills ready to be morphed.

If questing, you can also go the route of a turn in bar. Before you turn in a quest, equip whatever skill/weapon lines you want leveld= and then turn in the quest. Remember this isnt other ES titles. You dont need to use a skill to level it, it just needs to be on your bar when you get experience. So you could play mostly on your front bar, stack your back bar with the skills you want to level, and just be sure to bar swap to your back bar before you turn in a quest. On PC, there are addons to help with this is well.

Leveling as a tank is just painful if I am being honest. When you are solo, its on you to kill stuff. Only time I would go full tank is if you want to hop into a groupfinder dungeon as a tank. Then, slap on a S+B and a taunt and tank away.

Thanks for this info. I didn't know about skill leveling. I have all armor going and have tried all weapons.
Do you have a name for the bar skill mod you referred to?

Zodiarkslayer

I'd recommend to power level to lvl50 and then respec to your tank setup. Anything else will result in the unnecessary consumption of time for litterally nothing helpful. It doesn't make sense to level as a tank. You get Exp when you kill mobs, not for blocking or taunting or receiving damage.

Just make a setup with as much training gear as possible 5 medium, 2 heavy, 2H frontbar. Slot one skill from each class skill tree, one from your 1HnS and one from 2H tree. And upgrade it every 6 to 8 or 10 levels. Use purple weapons and blue gear minimum.

Heartland Conqueror and Order's Wrath would be my two favourite sets for levelling.

Easiest spot in the base game to level is around the church in Camlorn, imo. Easy fights, very fast respawns, lots of loot. And the werewolfs give double exp, too.

El_Borracho

Agree with @Zodiarkslayer and @Oreyn_Bearclaw. Never level as a tank. To add to what they said, my favorite way of power-levelling alts is by running the daily random normal dungeon. The dungeon you get is tied to your level, so at Level 18, the game will not give you anything difficult. I put my DPS skills on the front bar, and the skills I want to level on the back bar, for example, all the tank skills. Then, when the last boss hits 20%, switch to the back bar and get the XP dump from completing the random daily.

In addition to daily normals, public dungeons and the group events inside are good, main storyline quests in each zone, master writs, Mages Guild/Fighter's Guild dailies, and of course dolmen farming.

Finally, I HIGHLY recommend the Armory. Your skills will level across both characters and you can simply swap builds instead of constant rebuilds. You will probably already be skyshard and skill point hunting while you level, but it is very much worth it with the Armory

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Kng_Ayumayuma wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Kng_Ayumayuma wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Are you a Level 21? I only ask because you only have 21 attribute points.

If you are looking for an easy solo build that can do something like VMA, heavy attack magsorcs are generally the best bet. Werewolves are good for stamina builds. Pretty much any PVP build can be turned into a PVE overland build with an armor swap from Impen to Divines. Health around 20K is the norm. The main things you want to focus on are penetration, damage, and sustain

Any base dungeon works. Fungal 1 is almost a joke at this point, especially if you have a companion.

Level 18. You get extra points once in a while.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I will say a couple of general things.

First, I am of the camp that the best defense is a good offense. This game favors spec'ing mostly into damage in PVE unless you are playing a tank/healer in 4 man content or you are trying to solo vet content that is designed for 4 people. Even vet solo arenas favor a DPS setup first and foremost.

Second, don't get to worked up at low level over you gear. Until you are max level with 160 CP, you should not waste a single gold coin on your setup (unless of course its your 5th alt and you are already rich). This game battle levels you so much that you just wont notice it.

Third, for 99% of PVE content, Orders Wrath is the best set you can get outside of trial gear. Wear 5 pieces of it. You basically have one tank set and one "utility" set (regen and some heals). It's overkill on survival and at some point, becomes self defeating. The longer a fight takes, the more you need defense and healing. DPS equals a shorter fight. I am going to suggest run two Damage sets, or perhaps a damage set and a utility set, maybe something like Briarheart that gives damage and heals and Orders Wrath for straight damage. If you absolutely need a tanky set, pair with a damage set (orders wrath).

Fourth, dont get too caught up on a baseline amount of health. 25k is frankly more than enough for almost any PVP activity unless you are tanking or soling vet 4-man content. If you are going 2H/2H, I would put every point into stamina. I wouldnt suggest redundant weapons on both bars, especially when leveling, but regardless, skills scale off your highest offensive stat (magic or stam) and there is rarely a good reason to split points. A few into health is okay, but after that, go all into one. If 2H, bow or DW, go stam, if a staff, go magic.

I am building this as a tank (1st one). Forgot to mention that. Added it in OP.
All my other builds are, all points in stam or mag. Zero in health. Thats not working very well with tougher opponents. I thought I would look at something different. I'm not that great of a player.

I know most of this doesn't matter before 50. Just trying to learn for that time. I have about 260 CP already. Two alts 50+.

Something to think about.

A tank in ESO is a role that only makes sense in 4 man content. It makes very little sense to level as a tank. Level as a DPS. Keep one Sword and Board skill on your main bar at all times. This will level your sword and shield. A tank likely also wants to level a destro staff, you can do the same thing with that as well. If you put a S+B skill on your front bar and say equip a 2H, you wont be able to cast the S+B skill, but the skill will level, as will the weapon line. Once the skill can be morphed, slot the next one in the weapon line. You can do something similar with the armor. Equip enough armor to unlock the the heavy armor line, but then you only need to wear one piece of it, and every time you get XP, your armor line will level.

When I level a new character. I make sure to unlock all three armor lines, and wear at least one piece of each so all level. I make sure to have one skill from each of 3 class skill lines on my front bar so all those lines level. I will often equip a weapon skill from a line I am not currently using, so that levels as well. It can make for some interesting bar setups at times, but it allows you to hit level 50 with all your class skill lines and 1-2 weapons lines at max level, and all your skills ready to be morphed.

If questing, you can also go the route of a turn in bar. Before you turn in a quest, equip whatever skill/weapon lines you want leveld= and then turn in the quest. Remember this isnt other ES titles. You dont need to use a skill to level it, it just needs to be on your bar when you get experience. So you could play mostly on your front bar, stack your back bar with the skills you want to level, and just be sure to bar swap to your back bar before you turn in a quest. On PC, there are addons to help with this is well.

Leveling as a tank is just painful if I am being honest. When you are solo, its on you to kill stuff. Only time I would go full tank is if you want to hop into a groupfinder dungeon as a tank. Then, slap on a S+B and a taunt and tank away.

Thanks for this info. I didn't know about skill leveling. I have all armor going and have tried all weapons.
Do you have a name for the bar skill mod you referred to?

You can use the armory built into the game, but it requires purchasing the assistant to be practical.

Most popular addons are: Dressing Room and Alpha Gear. I think Dressing Room has a little more traction these days with streamers, but I use Alpha Gear. Really just a matter of preference. Alpha Gear allows different profiles, so for example I have a PVP, PVE - Dungeon, And PVE trial profile on my NB. Each profile allows you to hotkey different gear and/or skill bar setups. So you can push one button and go from a single target boss loadout to an AOE load out. I often also have numbers 8 and 9 on my keypad set to toggle between a ring of the hunt and another mythic, so I can easily swap to max speed, and then swap back to a better combat mythic before I engage a fight. If I am doing a trial/tri-fecta progression, I will have button 1 for boss 1, button 2 for boss 2, etc, and potentially 7-9 are various trash setups. Overkill for most, but its how its done when score pushing

I think there is also one called something like Witches Wardrobe, but I might be remembering that wrong, never used it.

Kng_Ayumayuma

Thanks everyone for your inputs.

I will say some info here is contrary to fred4 info linked in the first thread I mention above. Which is fine with me. Luckily its easy to try different things.

It was mentioned not to level as a tank. But I'm not playing this one any different than I play any other build I have. Nine total now.. Thats probably one reason why I'm not that good.

As an example. On esoui I found a mod that shows your weaving time and color codes it (WeaveDelays). Green, yellow, red. All I ever have is red. I looked online and read a basic article on weaving. I'll continue to play with that.

fred4

Kng_Ayumayuma wrote: »

I will say some info here is contrary to fred4 info linked in the first thread I mention above.

Listen to the people here, especially the first post from Oreyn_Bearclaw, which begins with "I will say a couple of general things".

In the thread with Divestor I discussed soloing 4-man group content at veteran levels with full CP or at least 450 CP. That's far removed from below level 50. I wouldn't invest into a proper build at that level. You outgrow your gear quickly. Battle-levelling soon makes it worthless. Health, tankiness and sustain tends to be good in fully crafted / optimised low level gear, but damage usually sucks. You lack too many skill line passives.

The reason I play 2H / 2H is specifically because I use the Master's 2H on one bar and the Tormentor set on the other. Stampede leaves an AOE DOT on the ground, which procs the Infused back bar damage enchant while you attack mobs with Brawler on the other bar. In other words, running double 2H is very specific to my build and the sets I use. In general I would run 2 different weapon types, especially when levelling.

I run the stamsorc setup because it works well for mid-tier content, including half the veteran dungeons, where you can carry a bad PUG (pick up group) by soloing, if necessary. If you want to push the envelope on what veteran content you can queue for as a tank but also do damage, or you want to actually just solo it, then it's a good build. There may be some trials players who disagree with me, because the build won't do enough damage for them as an off tank, but it's certainly a comfortable build for random content within a fairly high difficulty bracket. Normal dungeons are even too easy for it. I recently switched to tanking with my magplar DD for those. I simply put the Tormentor set on the magplar with Explosive Charge, because that's sufficiently tanky in normal mode and you do more damage.

For trials and, broadly speaking, vet DLC dungeons, I recommend playing an actual 1H + Shield tank. If that's in your future, then I agree you should level that skill line and the (ice) staff.

If you're strictly after soloing, then a Master's Brawler build, esepcially mine, can be very tanky while doing crazy AOE damage, but it falls down in single target damage without modifications. Oreyn is right in saying that dealing damage (and healing while attacking) trumps everything in ESO. I think maybe that came across in my original posts as well. If you're not outright zapping something, you must at least always progress the fight. The tankiness you need to survive while doing that runs on a spectrum, depending on content. I run different builds that are optimised for different points on that spectrum.

In case of actual solo content, vMA and vVateshran, there's also just an inflection point. You can go in with my Brawler sorc. It's very comfortable to the point of ignoring / not being bothered by some mechanics. You can ignore the hoarvors and spiderlings in arena 6, for example, and gain time because you are so tanky, the spiderlings won't kill you. They even help to ramp up the Master's Brawler damage against the boss. On the other hand, an accomplished DD would tell you that all of that is a moot point, since they burn mobs and bosses so quickly, nothing is a real problem for them either. It's when you're in the no man's land inbetween those extremes that you perhaps have problems with vMA.

Kng_Ayumayuma

Thank you all so much for the help..

How much difference is there between a poor, average, and good (great) player make in these (any) builds?

And what can be done to a build to compensate for shortcomings (if anything)? In real life it would be to buy a Porsche (depending on how short the comings are maybe a Ferrari). But what about here?

Zodiarkslayer

Kng_Ayumayuma wrote: »

Thank you all so much for the help..

How much difference is there between a poor, average, and good (great) player make in these (any) builds?

And what can be done to a build to compensate for shortcomings (if anything)? In real life it would be to buy a Porsche (depending on how short the comings are maybe a Ferrari). But what about here?

Buy a carry run, maybe?

No, seriously. There is no way around learning to weave, to position, to do mechanics, have perception and judgement within a fight. All those things are player skill. And more. That is why progression groups are so important. Train together, learn together. Get better, together.

fred4

Kng_Ayumayuma wrote: »

How much difference is there between a poor, average, and good (great) player make in these (any) builds?

In general it's huge, although when it comes to passing PvE content without achievements or setting high scores, the greatest difference between good and bad players is arguably down to experience with general mechanics and specific dungeon mechanics. With few exceptions, execution doesn't need to be perfect.

I would say my sorc tank is a very forgiving build, but you're not running my sorc tank nor should you really (need to) do so at below level 50. The key to surviving with Brawler, if you're using that skill, is to have the sustain to spam it. Whitestrake's and Hist Whisperer are the wrong sets. I would craft Order's Wrath and a sustain set, e.g. Wretched Vitality. Sustain is everything to survive tough content with Brawler builds. Crit and sustain are the ingredients for a kickass stamsorc. You should enable more consistent Crit Surge healing rather than trying to heal from something like Hist Whisperer. A set that technically enables both would be Briarheart, but I'd just craft Order's Wrath.

Like I said in the Divestor thread, all shields pale compared to Brawler. What you need is the sustain to spam that skill, not stack shielding sets. Have another look at the easily obtainable sets I run in the below video. Once you are above CP160 you can buy Vengeance Leech cheaply, which simulates the main effect from Vicious Ophidian, the set I normally run. The rest is crafted. This is a solo variation of the build with no taunt:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VM6OrV7YBUo

Since I assume you neither have Tormentor nor a Master's 2H weapon, the latter of which is what really makes Brawler builds, there is no need to run double 2H though. If you want to stick with the Brawler skill, you could run 2H / bow or maybe 2H / dual-wield as a DD. As a tank, absent the above sets, I'd probably run 2H / 1H+S so you can taunt and block tank on your other bar, learning how to play like a conventional tank. Sustain-wise, combining Brawler with a conventional tank in one build is not ideal in the long run. It tends to gimp both your DD and tanking functions by pushing the hybrid angle too much, but in lower level group content it will be fine and will allow you to experiment.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

fred4 wrote: »

Kng_Ayumayuma wrote: »

I will say some info here is contrary to fred4 info linked in the first thread I mention above.

Listen to the people here, especially the first post from Oreyn_Bearclaw, which begins with "I will say a couple of general things".

In the thread with Divestor I discussed soloing 4-man group content at veteran levels with full CP or at least 450 CP. That's far removed from below level 50. I wouldn't invest into a proper build at that level. You outgrow your gear quickly. Battle-levelling soon makes it worthless. Health, tankiness and sustain tends to be good in fully crafted / optimised low level gear, but damage usually sucks. You lack too many skill line passives.

The reason I play 2H / 2H is specifically because I use the Master's 2H on one bar and the Tormentor set on the other. Stampede leaves an AOE DOT on the ground, which procs the Infused back bar damage enchant while you attack mobs with Brawler on the other bar. In other words, running double 2H is very specific to my build and the sets I use. In general I would run 2 different weapon types, especially when levelling.

I run the stamsorc setup because it works well for mid-tier content, including half the veteran dungeons, where you can carry a bad PUG (pick up group) by soloing, if necessary. If you want to push the envelope on what veteran content you can queue for as a tank but also do damage, or you want to actually just solo it, then it's a good build. There may be some trials players who disagree with me, because the build won't do enough damage for them as an off tank, but it's certainly a comfortable build for random content within a fairly high difficulty bracket. Normal dungeons are even too easy for it. I recently switched to tanking with my magplar DD for those. I simply put the Tormentor set on the magplar with Explosive Charge, because that's sufficiently tanky in normal mode and you do more damage.

For trials and, broadly speaking, vet DLC dungeons, I recommend playing an actual 1H + Shield tank. If that's in your future, then I agree you should level that skill line and the (ice) staff.

If you're strictly after soloing, then a Master's Brawler build, esepcially mine, can be very tanky while doing crazy AOE damage, but it falls down in single target damage without modifications. Oreyn is right in saying that dealing damage (and healing while attacking) trumps everything in ESO. I think maybe that came across in my original posts as well. If you're not outright zapping something, you must at least always progress the fight. The tankiness you need to survive while doing that runs on a spectrum, depending on content. I run different builds that are optimised for different points on that spectrum.

In case of actual solo content, vMA and vVateshran, there's also just an inflection point. You can go in with my Brawler sorc. It's very comfortable to the point of ignoring / not being bothered by some mechanics. You can ignore the hoarvors and spiderlings in arena 6, for example, and gain time because you are so tanky, the spiderlings won't kill you. They even help to ramp up the Master's Brawler damage against the boss. On the other hand, an accomplished DD would tell you that all of that is a moot point, since they burn mobs and bosses so quickly, nothing is a real problem for them either. It's when you're in the no man's land inbetween those extremes that you perhaps have problems with vMA.

I have been playing this game a long time and I still have never gotten around to trying a Brawler build in the arenas. Might have to give it a go one of these days.

Kng_Ayumayuma wrote: »

Thank you all so much for the help..

How much difference is there between a poor, average, and good (great) player make in these (any) builds?

And what can be done to a build to compensate for shortcomings (if anything)? In real life it would be to buy a Porsche (depending on how short the comings are maybe a Ferrari). But what about here?

I would say it really depends on the build. If you are just building a typical DPS build where your gear is really about stat boosting, its not all that drastic. A combo of crafted sets like Orders Wrath and Julianos, frankly isn't that far behind Trial sets that are deemed meta. In terms of quality, gold weapons make a big difference. Gold armor, not so much. Remember you can put gold enchants on purple gear (poor mans way to upgrade your gear).

If you are talking about more niche builds like Freds brawler setup, where you are trying to essentially min/max a specific skill, then things like arena weapons can make a big difference and can even make or break a build.

I would personal start with a more traditional setup, but niche builds can be really fun to play.

EDIT: I totally misread that. You were asking about player skill, not gear. Ill leave my take on gear and add this. For better or worse, ESO rewards skill, actions per minute, mechanic knowledge, etc., a lot more than some other games. The more skilled a player is, the more likely they are going to focus on raw power from their gear and dynamic/complicated rotations. I am above average, but certainly not earth shattering. I typically run stat sets and min/max (glass cannon) across the board. I have 18 toons and only my tank has any points into health. I am not saying that running things like a brawler build, heavy attack build, Oakensoul build, etc. means you aren't skilled, far from it, but certainly these are the types of builds that can help compensate for a lack of skill/knowledge to close the gap. I have a lazy mode oakensoul build for my templar. It wont break any records, but I can clear any Vet DLC dungeon with only using really like 3 buttons for my rotation.

fred4

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I have been playing this game a long time and I still have never gotten around to trying a Brawler build in the arenas. Might have to give it a go one of these days.

In case you ever do, I can only recommend trying something similar to the min / maxed version that I run. I ran a Brawler DK before and it was OK. It was the stamsorc that really pushed the build. Stamsorc has more damage from passives and it's not even funny. I measured something like 18K sustained trial dummy damage on the DK versus 27K on the stamsorc from "not much more than Brawler spam". Only a rough test between not quite the same build, but still.

It's the higher health and self healing from Crit Surge, 3.5K health regen and Dark Deal that elevates the stamsorc above other Brawler builds I've done. The high sustain, constant shielding and constant automatic healing of what gets through the shield allows breaking some mechanics, such as the vMA spiderlings I mentioned. I could possibly even outheal being poisoned in stage 7; at the very least you have much more time to reach the cleansing pools than on other builds. Variations of the stamsorc will also outheal vMalathar Scavenging Maw's poison spew and solo vCOA2 hard mode, despite destruction of all platforms.

I would personal start with a more traditional setup, but niche builds can be really fun to play.

I agree with that sentiment, but let me play devil's advocat for my niche build. This comment will be more for you than where the OP is at right now. One of the things it does is solo the last boss of vCauldron, even on hard mode (barely), because there are so many adds and basalt rocks. That may arguably be a better way of tanking that content than anything else. I haven't measured my damage there, but the question I got asked from a trials tank is: "Well how much damage does your Brawler build do?" This is what prompted me to take it to the trial dummy. It's very hard to beat a meta buff tank in a trial when it adds, say, 10% damage to 8 or 9 DDs. In 4 man content that's got to be different. Boss fights that have a lot of adds are candidates where a Master's Brawler build may just outperform a conventional tank for total group DPS.

Kng_Ayumayuma

Loved that vid fred4... class is in session!

Thanks again for everyone's help. I do appreciate it.

Briarheart requires DLC: Orsinium. I don't have that.

I don't have plus.

I purchased the High Isle set earlier this year.
These are the DLC listed that I own.

Blackwood
Elsweyr
Firesong
Graymoor
Imperial City
Morrowind
Summerset

Can you recommend an overland set or craftable set (to add to Order's Wraith) from what I have available and I can do (solo) below level 50? (this is one reason I craft)

I realize being in a guild would be a good thing. I remember way back in WoW (the last time I tried grouping many years ago) the long wait times. Or asking people to help and they would be too busy. Etc.

I have enjoyed auto racing from an early age. What I'm wanting to do here is "build a race car." Then learn to drive it well. As apposed to getting groceries in a Prius (what I've been doing all these years). No offense to Toyota.

fred4

On stamsorc below level 50: Pair Order's Wrath with Wretched Vitality (crafted). Use Hurricane to activate both parts of Wretched Vitality. Make those the body pieces and jewelry ... I hope you can make, say, green jewelry? Use found weapons or crafted weapons that you replace from time to time. Keep your body gear and jewelry until you reach champion ranks. Use Dark Deal. Maybe have some fun with Streak.

Hot take of the day: Armor sets don't do very much. No, seriously. For the sake of the argument, compare a set that gives 3x weapon / spell damage bonuses and 400 more weapon and spell damage from the 5 piece, depending on some condition. That's 129*3 + 400 = 787 at gold quality. Compare this to 3x Infused purple jewelry enchants: 262*3 = 786. It's the same. The game is quite balanced that way. Everything is important, which means armor sets deserve a little less weight than they carry in most conversations.

Crit % is important, but relatively hard to get. Ain't no jewelry trait nor enchant for that, nor is there a 2H dagger. This is one of the things you want from armor sets and why Order's Wrath is good. It's also a relatively new set and ever so slightly OP, considering how universal it is. There isn't really an overland set to beat it. Much the same can be said for Wretched Vitality, if you need / want dual sustain. Stamsorc thrives on it, so you do want it, even if that's arguably truer in PvP than in PvE. In solo PvE play, though? Absolutely. Dark Deal and the Clannfear, maybe sometimes Streak. You'll use the magicka. There are similar sustain sets. Eternal Vigor. Amber Plasm. Maybe, kind of, Shacklebreaker and Willow's Path. Wretched Vitality is the latest of these types of sets and, suprise surprise, that made it slightly OP. Doesn't matter that it's crafted. ESO is quite balanced that way. You don't need to farm. This really is the best. This patch.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

fred4 wrote: »

On stamsorc below level 50: Pair Order's Wrath with Wretched Vitality (crafted). Use Hurricane to activate both parts of Wretched Vitality. Make those the body pieces and jewelry ... I hope you can make, say, green jewelry? Use found weapons or crafted weapons that you replace from time to time. Keep your body gear and jewelry until you reach champion ranks. Use Dark Deal. Maybe have some fun with Streak.

Hot take of the day: Armor sets don't do very much. No, seriously. For the sake of the argument, compare a set that gives 3x weapon / spell damage bonuses and 400 more weapon and spell damage from the 5 piece, depending on some condition. That's 129*3 + 400 = 787 at gold quality. Compare this to 3x Infused purple jewelry enchants: 262*3 = 786. It's the same. The game is quite balanced that way. Everything is important, which means armor sets deserve a little less weight than they carry in most conversations.

Crit % is important, but relatively hard to get. Ain't no jewelry trait nor enchant for that, nor is there a 2H dagger. This is one of the things you want from armor sets and why Order's Wrath is good. It's also a relatively new set and ever so slightly OP, considering how universal it is. There isn't really an overland set to beat it. Much the same can be said for Wretched Vitality, if you need / want dual sustain. Stamsorc thrives on it, so you do want it, even if that's arguably truer in PvP than in PvE. In solo PvE play, though? Absolutely. Dark Deal and the Clannfear, maybe sometimes Streak. You'll use the magicka. There are similar sustain sets. Eternal Vigor. Amber Plasm. Maybe, kind of, Shacklebreaker and Willow's Path. Wretched Vitality is the latest of these types of sets and, suprise surprise, that made it slightly OP. Doesn't matter that it's crafted. ESO is quite balanced that way. You don't need to farm. This really is the best. This patch.

Agree. Keep it simple. OW for Damage pair with Hundings Rage for max damage, or Wretched Vitality for near infinite sustain. Sustain is probably the better option, especially if you dont have any CP.

Another option to perhaps consider is to pair OW with Adept Rider. Also Craftable. It is fairly tanky and gives major expedition and major gallop. Both can be sourced other ways, but its a handy set for getting around on a low level character.

fred4

Low level characters actually tend to have crazy regen numbers, but they usually miss some cost reduction from skill, class and racial passives. It all balances out. The reason I'm hammering home sustain so much is the Brawler skill. It is an expensive skill to spam. If you're not able to spam it while under duress, the whole point of a Brawler spec evaporates. You will die. This is most noticeable in (low MMR) battlegrounds. Adding sustain to my stamsorc turned her from a feeble dying thing into an absolute monster. New BG players don't know how to deal with the constant pressure, infinite sustain, and constant shielding. Neither do PvE mobs . Brawler or more likely the other morph, Carve, can be used as an occasional utility skill. That's not how I use it. You want it for tankiness, you need the sustain.

Kng_Ayumayuma

I'm sorry in my last post I forgot to mention I dont have the DLC: Deadlands for Wretched Vitality.
I'm pretty sure I can do Hundings Rage though.
I have Adept Rider on a couple alts (<50). I like the speed. But I'm guessing it will be dumped at higher level for something else?
@fred4 in your vid what is the left addon? The one above the fight?
Or what addons do you recommend in battle? Anyone can answer if you want.

fred4

Just for fun, even though it's out of context, here is my stamsorc in battlegrounds (older video). Of course this isn't exactly the same spec, but it's a Brawler build. I rarely go, so it's low MMR. Same idea as with PvE mobs: Tank enemy groups head on. Streak away when your buffs run out. With hybridisation I feel this build has only gotten stronger, since I now use Haunting Curse and Mage's Fury to add burst. I know, I know, people complain about sorc in PvP being weak nowadays. Primarily magsorc, though, and I'm not claiming this is meta anyway. Brawler builds have a ceiling in both PvE and PvP where they can't compete with more specialised builds at the highest level. However in normal and "lesser" vet dungeons (whatever that means exactly - see my vCauldron remarks), watch out. Arguably low MMR BGs are the normal dungeons of PvP:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VniS3OdmC6k

fred4

Kng_Ayumayuma wrote: »

I'm sorry in my last post I forgot to mention I dont have the DLC: Deadlands for Wretched Vitality.

Doesn't matter. Befriend a player with a crafting hall and visit their house. More likely: Join a big social or trading guild. Some player in the guild should have such a house, which is usually advertised on the guild home page and often open to the public as well. You just need to know the @ name of the player that owns the house and use an addon, such as porttofriendshouse to go to their house, even (despite the naming of the addon) if they are not your friend. Easiest way is guild, though. Pick one without dues, if you don't want to trade and take advantage of a high profile trading location. Crafting hall will typically have crafting stations for any and all sets of the game. No one goes out into the world to craft. Well, maybe some people do, but you don't have to.

@fred4 in your vid what is the left addon? The one above the fight?

• Left side is BuffTimers an old and pretty redundant, but very configurable addon that makes those coloured bars. Or you can watch ZOS' new implementation of timers on the skill icons.
• Top left middle is Greyskull to display weapon or spell damage as it dynamically changes, depending on buffs.
• General UI addon is FTC (Foundry Tactical Combat) for enemy info, logs and statistics. The competition to that, I believe, is LUI.
• Middle popups are Miat's CC tracker. This really dates back to when nightblade Fear was causing you to lose control of your character in PvP, which was hard to tell. I just got used to it and never removed it.
• I also run a version of DressingRoom (not the latest, but 0.10.3b) to swap gear / builds anywhere.
• Combat Metrics is THE standard addon to analyse your performance, mainly as a DD (not visible in video).
• For PvP in general we have Miat's PvP Alerts, which I use for the enemy counter, resource status displays, and the "ding" sound when you get attacked by a new player.
• AutoCategory is indispensible to organise your inventory, bank and house storage.
• Inventory Insight tracks your stuff across multiple characters, bank and house storage chests, so you can find who is carrying what and how much overall currency you have.
• Awesome Guild Store is indispensable to improve your shopping experience.
• You may also consider Tamriel Trade Centre for the same, but I only use the website.
• Arkadius' Trade Tools or Master Merchant tracks trade in your guilds. Useful especially to (a) ensure you meet trading requirements in guilds that have those and (b) to get pricing on high volume items for which Tamriel Trade Centre is less good. The downside is that these addons only really work well, if you are a member of high volume trade guild(s).
• BindAll immediately binds uncollected stickerbook items when you pick them up. This avoids getting duplicates in dungeons and trials, so you optimize stickerbook collection speed.
• Blackrose Prison Helper, should you ever find yourself in vet Blackrose Prison (very hard) much later in your ESO career.
• DisplayLeads for a quick summary of mythic leads, better than ZOS.
• Dolgubon's Lazy Writ Crafter, indispensible for doing daily crafting writs quickly, e.g. regular income / gold crafting materials.
• Dustman, indispensible to automatically move garbage to junk for selling to NPC merchants.
• Lootlog to advertise unwanted items to other players who might like them after a trial / dungeon run ... and to spy on what they got that you may want. Also allows you to quickly request stuff you don't already have in your stickerbook from other players who are also advertising with loot log.
• Magic Carpet, to fly around on a carpet in your houses.
• Untaunted, to track what you have taunted as a tank, looks similar to BuffTimers.
• MapPins, extends the map with location of Pijic Rifts, skyshards, and so on.
• Lost Treasure, also extends the map with locations of treasure maps. One of those also does surveys.
• PortToFriendsHouse, as mentioned above.

Kng_Ayumayuma

You all have went out of your way to help me.
I need to level and digest whats here... where did I put my Tums again?

Oreyn_Bearclaw

fred4 wrote: »

Kng_Ayumayuma wrote: »

I'm sorry in my last post I forgot to mention I dont have the DLC: Deadlands for Wretched Vitality.

Doesn't matter. Befriend a player with a crafting hall and visit their house. More likely: Join a big social or trading guild. Some player in the guild should have such a house, which is usually advertised on the guild home page and often open to the public as well. You just need to know the @ name of the player that owns the house and use an addon, such as porttofriendshouse to go to their house, even (despite the naming of the addon) if they are not your friend. Easiest way is guild, though. Pick one without dues, if you don't want to trade and take advantage of a high profile trading location. Crafting hall will typically have crafting stations for any and all sets of the game. No one goes out into the world to craft. Well, maybe some people do, but you don't have to.

@fred4 in your vid what is the left addon? The one above the fight?

• Left side is BuffTimers an old and pretty redundant, but very configurable addon that makes those coloured bars. Or you can watch ZOS' new implementation of timers on the skill icons.
• Top left middle is Greyskull to display weapon or spell damage as it dynamically changes, depending on buffs.
• General UI addon is FTC (Foundry Tactical Combat) for enemy info, logs and statistics. The competition to that, I believe, is LUI.
• Middle popups are Miat's CC tracker. This really dates back to when nightblade Fear was causing you to lose control of your character in PvP, which was hard to tell. I just got used to it and never removed it.
• I also run a version of DressingRoom (not the latest, but 0.10.3b) to swap gear / builds anywhere.
• Combat Metrics is THE standard addon to analyse your performance, mainly as a DD (not visible in video).
• For PvP in general we have Miat's PvP Alerts, which I use for the enemy counter, resource status displays, and the "ding" sound when you get attacked by a new player.
• AutoCategory is indispensible to organise your inventory, bank and house storage.
• Inventory Insight tracks your stuff across multiple characters, bank and house storage chests, so you can find who is carrying what and how much overall currency you have.
• Awesome Guild Store is indispensable to improve your shopping experience.
• You may also consider Tamriel Trade Centre for the same, but I only use the website.
• Arkadius' Trade Tools or Master Merchant tracks trade in your guilds. Useful especially to (a) ensure you meet trading requirements in guilds that have those and (b) to get pricing on high volume items for which Tamriel Trade Centre is less good. The downside is that these addons only really work well, if you are a member of high volume trade guild(s).
• BindAll immediately binds uncollected stickerbook items when you pick them up. This avoids getting duplicates in dungeons and trials, so you optimize stickerbook collection speed.
• Blackrose Prison Helper, should you ever find yourself in vet Blackrose Prison (very hard) much later in your ESO career.
• DisplayLeads for a quick summary of mythic leads, better than ZOS.
• Dolgubon's Lazy Writ Crafter, indispensible for doing daily crafting writs quickly, e.g. regular income / gold crafting materials.
• Dustman, indispensible to automatically move garbage to junk for selling to NPC merchants.
• Lootlog to advertise unwanted items to other players who might like them after a trial / dungeon run ... and to spy on what they got that you may want. Also allows you to quickly request stuff you don't already have in your stickerbook from other players who are also advertising with loot log.
• Magic Carpet, to fly around on a carpet in your houses.
• Untaunted, to track what you have taunted as a tank, looks similar to BuffTimers.
• MapPins, extends the map with location of Pijic Rifts, skyshards, and so on.
• Lost Treasure, also extends the map with locations of treasure maps. One of those also does surveys.
• PortToFriendsHouse, as mentioned above.

Wait what? Magic Carpet? Is that really a thing? Haha. Might need to try that out.

Learn something new every day...