Siege!

Xandreia_

I was sent this by a friend.

People are saying siege should do more damage, my friend is a tanky dk who can eat up alot of damage, but this is ridiculous, siege needs to be reworked badly, this isn't a one off kind of thing since it usually hits for between 30-40k @ZOS_Kevin is there anyway this could be taken further as its getting out of hand. Siege has become way too over powered when used against solo players.

I wish there was a limit of if there was under 4 people siege wouldn't be as effective. In my opinion it ruins the flow of gameplay.

jcasini222ub17_ESO

Hard no, cold harbor is functioning as intended.

I’m a 40k health WW temp that can sit indefinitely in meatbags plus whatever other siege. Cold harbor is the only, only, siege that can make me move and risk a death.

If anything this game needs to look again at buffing defile on all available sources.

ForumBully

It depends on what ZOS has in mind for siege, and I doubt they'll ever spell it out since communication isn't really their thing.
I think it's reasonable to believe that getting hit by a siege weapon should mean death, or at least be incredibly impactful. The fact that it's possible to survive solo tanking out a weapon designed to break keep walls, or completely ignore those same weapons if enough allies are spamming heals is what I find unbalanced.

Xandreia_

You can't outheal 54k lol, if anything happens elfbane and other sets should not work on siege, they did it with VD way back, no reason why buff sets should work with siege. There's a mentality in greyhost PCNA that if you see 1 or 2 people they must die, meaning half the time there is atleast 3/4 siege on you at all times while being rooted, pulled, ult dumped and whatever else they can think of, as a solo/small scale player, fighting outnumbered is exactly what I want and how I play but it's become near impossible to continue, it's practically zerg or be zerged at this point.

Dr_Con

Not sure what I'm supposed to be seeing? You (i am addressing your friend throughout this post) took 6 ticks of damage, 5 from one bolt then 1 from another. This was plenty of time to pop a self-heal to counteract, purge, shield, use a potion, etc.

DKs can tank a lot because they have an ultimate that limits the amount of damage they receive to 3% per hit and each time they ult they get their resources back, allowing them to heal themselves back to full. If you want to play a DK and have 10s of near invulnerability, then that's always a class you can pick up and play.

If you're unwilling to give up a fight just because the enemy decided they needed to use seige on you or give up your bursty ult so that you can survive more, then that's a different story entirely. All seige weapons are avoidable- if you have trouble seeing the circle that is something we have a discussion about... If you refuse to get out of the circle, no one can really help you without you helping yourself first.

ForumBully

Xandreia_ wrote: »

it's practically zerg or be zerged at this point.

And that is never, ever, ever going to change. Siege is built into Cyrodiil since the start. It's central to the open world, as are zergs, and that's not going to change. We got Battlegrounds specifically because open world is not going change.

Veinblood1965

This is the first I've heard of a DK Tank dying in PVP, must be something to do with the player. Was he or she AFK? Where they eating dinner while playing and couldn't press any buttons for an hour?

Luede

u can roll dodge every siedge weapon tick, so maybe use ur hotkeys

edit: also the damage is a little strange, you got 5 ticks with over 10k damage per tick, if i remember correctly cold harbor does something around 7.5k damage, which means you still got debuffed somehow

Xandreia_

Jesus 😂 I'm done lol

ForumBully

Xandreia_ wrote: »

Jesus 😂 I'm done lol

Sorry, but "I'm getting zerged down and sieged in open world Cyrodiil" isn't exactly unique as ESO problems go. I'm sure there will be plenty to join the THIS MUST END train, but it never will.

Xandreia_

Luede wrote: »

u can roll dodge every siedge weapon tick, so maybe use ur hotkeys

edit: also the damage is a little strange, you got 5 ticks with over 10k damage per tick, if i remember correctly cold harbor does something around 7.5k damage, which means you still got debuffed somehow

10k on a cold harbour is normal, I stole someone's cold harbour a few days ago and shot it once and hit people for 9.8k

Xandreia_

ForumBully wrote: »

Xandreia_ wrote: »

Jesus 😂 I'm done lol

Sorry, but "I'm getting zerged down and sieged in open world Cyrodiil" isn't exactly unique as ESO problems go. I'm sure there will be plenty to join the THIS MUST END train, but it never will.

I know it will never end I'm not naive, pvp is and always was siege v player and alot of people are afraid to die in a pvp zone. Don't for 1 second think I want siege removed, but the damage it does for free compared to things like player ultimates is huge. All you have to do is point and click 🤷‍♀️

Luede

Xandreia_ wrote: »

Luede wrote: »

u can roll dodge every siedge weapon tick, so maybe use ur hotkeys

edit: also the damage is a little strange, you got 5 ticks with over 10k damage per tick, if i remember correctly cold harbor does something around 7.5k damage, which means you still got debuffed somehow

10k on a cold harbour is normal, I stole someone's cold harbour a few days ago and shot it once and hit people for 9.8k

i am not sure if Vamp Stage has an effect on cold harbour, but its not normal, if u are not effectet by a debuff u get something around 7,5k.

but everyone runs Vamp Stage 3+ so maybe thats the problem.

Four_Fingers

Most of my ranged skills and weapons are point and click.
I find fall damage to be more op than siege. lol

ForumBully

Xandreia_ wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

Xandreia_ wrote: »

Jesus 😂 I'm done lol

Sorry, but "I'm getting zerged down and sieged in open world Cyrodiil" isn't exactly unique as ESO problems go. I'm sure there will be plenty to join the THIS MUST END train, but it never will.

I know it will never end I'm not naive, pvp is and always was siege v player and alot of people are afraid to die in a pvp zone. Don't for 1 second think I want siege removed, but the damage it does for free compared to things like player ultimates is huge. All you have to do is point and click 🤷‍♀️

Cyrodiil has been built around siege. That's the whole point of keeps and outposts and scoring and zone buffs and Emperor and the entire ESO open world PvP experience.
Also...not to quibble but every single skill is also point and click.

I don't really play much at all recently, and haven't played seriously for a couple of years, but when I did I saw far too many ways to make siege practically inconsequential so I can't agree that it needs to be even weaker.

jad11mumbler

Xandreia_ wrote: »

but the damage it does for free compared to things like player ultimates is huge. All you have to do is point and click 🤷‍♀️

Unlike player ultimates though, it's just as easy to fire siege as it is to avoid siege, unless you run into a breach at a bad time without support.

Normally, just move out of the growing red circle at your feet.

spartaxoxo

Xandreia_ wrote: »

Don't for 1 second think I want siege removed, but the damage it does for free compared to things like player ultimates is huge. All you have to do is point and click

Ultimates are generally easier to land and use than siege? What do you mean by this? Every skill in this game is point and click. Siege has not only a much more massive telegraph that it's coming, but it locks you out of all other abilities.

Dem_kitkats1

Yeah...siege needs to remain strong, if not stronger, because it's purpose is to counter groups and structures. It's not meant for 1v1 scenarios. Lots of groups have access to tools that out-mitigate, and purge the effects of siege equipment as it, which is why it can't be nerfed. When it comes to siege you just need to be more spacially aware, as you can easily get out of siege range, or buff and heal between load times.

umagon

I would like to see a cold harbor lancer, and dwarven spider mount vehicle with twin/quad lancer attachments and mortar launcher be added to the siege weapon line up. The mount could have high ap cost to deploy and be unrepairable or short up time.

Marcus684

Xandreia_ wrote: »

I was sent this by a friend.

People are saying siege should do more damage, my friend is a tanky dk who can eat up alot of damage, but this is ridiculous, siege needs to be reworked badly, this isn't a one off kind of thing since it usually hits for between 30-40k @ZOS_Kevin is there anyway this could be taken further as its getting out of hand. Siege has become way too over powered when used against solo players.

I wish there was a limit of if there was under 4 people siege wouldn't be as effective. In my opinion it ruins the flow of gameplay.

So, your friend was troll-tanking a bunch of players and neglected to get out of the red circle from one of them that found their weakness. Sounds like working as intended to me.

Kartalin

Clearly should have used petrify or dark talons to even the odds. That'll show those siege jockeys!

People that add siege to melee fights are the worst though. I understand if it was at a keep, but in a field away from an objective? Ugh.

YandereGirlfriend

Indeed, when players set up siege in the open field it's just sad.

Here are some dubious mechanics currently tilting the playing field in favor of the Cyrodiil "siegemasters":

1. Block is still broken and does not work against siege (even the Direct Damage portion of attacks; an obvious bug)
2. Siege bubbles no longer stack (this was stealth-patched at some point)
3. Siege DoTs can be extended to 25-30 seconds (another obvious bug)
4. Vicious Death works with siege damage (highly likely not intended behavior)

Frequently, it is possible to stick on a ram, power-healing and daisy-chaining Barriers. However, it is when the interior Mage Guard randomly tosses a Negate through the keep door that things get truly dicey (and Negate has been silently buffed over several patches versus things that used to mitigate it).

Things like stealth bombers are also very annoying when on a ram. Their bombs typically fail to secure kills but the chaos of an unexpected pull and then some amount of burst damage can get players low enough such that a few untimely Coldfire bolts can finish them off and begin a Vicious Death chain reaction).

jad11mumbler

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

4. Vicious Death works with siege damage (highly likely not intended behavior)

Since ZOS have had Six years to change that, I think its intended.

YandereGirlfriend

jad11mumbler wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

4. Vicious Death works with siege damage (highly likely not intended behavior)

Since ZOS have had Six years to change that, I think its intended.

Maybe, maybe not.

Many bugs have persisted through the years. The ability of Mage Guards to throw Negates that ignore LoS is certainly one of them. I cannot imagine that is intended behavior but it's a bug as old as I have been playing in Cyrodiil.

See also Cyrodiil NPCs using deprecated and buggy versions of skills, such as how the DK Guard version of Chains pulls you in super slow-motion over the course of 3 to 5 seconds, depending upon distance. Absolutely busted.

Rebirthment

Anyone else think some of the sieges should be buffed? Like iceball and lightning trebuchets, ballistas?

Also btw Sieging can be fun as ***. Especially in huge keep battles

Holycannoli

That was five hits from a cold fire ballista though.

...wait, cold HARBOR ballista? Isn't it cold FIRE? Is there some new ballista available now? I haven't been in Cyrodiil in a while because of the lousy performance.

Anyway, what they need to do is limit siege to one (1) deployed person at a time. If you want more than one siege weapon you bring someone with you.

Soraka

So it seems like siege is a lot harder to sit through recently. However, as someone who likes to siege people, it's not as easy to kill them with it as it may seem. If someone is just standing in coldfire that's kinda what happens? It's nice to see the need for siege shield and active defense/reaction than just face tanking siege imo.

TechMaybeHic

Well, some sets are buffing siege and I was under the impression it was not supposed to, so there's that. I'd agree that should not be a thing, but would be open to siege needing to be more effective at base damage.

After that; I don't feel for eating full set of ticks from siege and still being hit again by seemingly the same person. I don't care how tanky or broken the modifiers are; that should not be ignored. Maybe siege needs to be oblivion damage

Jaraal

Looks like OP took five full ticks from an Elf Bane wearer.

There are plenty of ways to remove/resist DOTs…. both actively and passively. No need to suffer for 10 full seconds.

Jaraal

Holycannoli wrote: »

...wait, cold HARBOR ballista? Isn't it cold FIRE? Is there some new ballista available now? I haven't been in Cyrodiil in a while because of the lousy performance.

Well, it’s clearly not from Coldharbour. They may have found a cool… err… cold Harbor Freight sale on siege weapons, though.

Bergzorn

Holycannoli wrote: »

...wait, cold HARBOR ballista? Isn't it cold FIRE? Is there some new ballista available now? I haven't been in Cyrodiil in a while because of the lousy performance.

When I enterd Cyrodiil for the first time, in 2014 or so, I had no clue what to expect. First, I went to explore the map a bit. Didn't see a single player, friendly or enemy. Suddenly, I dropped dead out of nowhere. No warning sound, no fancy graphics, just dead. The recap showed "Cold Harbor Ballista Bolt". I had no idea what happened and that I died to another player, it felt like some one-shot boss mechanic in a dungeon...