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How do you feel about the name "Telvanni Peninsula?

brylars
brylars
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Someone recently took issue with the name of "Telvanni Peninsula" for the land mass in Morrowind. He said that the devs "should do away with the ridiculously inaccurate and unimaginative name for the region." He also took issue with the emphasis on the Telvanni in the region and that it should have as much emphasis on the Indoril because of the location of Necrom. I have had people challenge me on canon and lore but I was kind of taken aback by it considering who it was.

I decided to do a quick look into these issues to see what I could find:

1. As far as I could tell there isn't a definite boundary between Telvanni lands and Indoril lands in the peninsula. I believe it could be a fair assumption the Telvanni could control quite a bit considering its location between Azura's Coast where the Council seat is located and the Telvanni islands where their capital, Port Telvannism is located. Also considering the canon description of the terrain (mountainous, badlands, and steep cliff) who would want the area except thos who want to be isolated.

2. Mods like Tamriel Rebuilt have used the name "Telvanni Peninsula" for the region since TES III was released.

3. Many within the player base use "Telvanni Peninsula" for the region.

4. The region is never named, as far as I can tell, in any of the PC games. Its geography is briefly described and two locations, Firewatch and Port Telvanni, are mentioned in TES III.

5. "Telvanni Peninsula" is used once in the book The Second Akaviri Invasion, a lorebook in ESO. Otherwise "Telvanni Coast" is used. The context suggests "Telvanni Coast" is not in reference to Azura's Coast.

6. In an interview shortly after ESO's release, Lawrence Schick, the Loremaster for ZOS, called the region "Telvanni Peninsula."


I have to admit the name "Telvanni Peninsula" is a bit odd as we do not have any other location that is named in such a way. There is not Redoran Highlands or Indoril Plains. It has been tradition to call this region that for years, maybe two decades. We know what someone is talking about when they call it that.

Since we have Azura's Coast, do we call it Boethiah's Peninsula? Then we call the islands Mephala's Archipelago?

Genuinely curious as to what you all think.
Edited by brylars on November 28, 2022 8:32PM
  • Supreme_Atromancer
    Supreme_Atromancer
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    Mostly, I couldn't really care less. Once we go there and start exploring it (whenever that may be), I don't think we'll be thinking about the relevance of the name any more than we are about the absurdity of Nords and Bretons, but *Redguards*; or Valenwood and Silvenar, or any of the multitude of other naming convention quirks.

    I will say, regarding the logic behind the argument about its improbability- who knows the entire list of historical circumstances that lead to some place being named this or that? Maybe there *was* once an Indoril Plains? Maybe in Dunmer language, the particular people associated with a land were considered so defining, characteristic or important, that the land is often colloquially referred to in terms of the inhabitants? Maybe the custom was once really widespread, but has fallen out of fashion? Maybe closer ties (economic, if not political) with Imperials, or Nords, or whatever has influenced both language trends and the way Dunmer people think of the world around them. Indoril Plains are now Deshaan Plains referencing another way of thinking, and Boethiath's Peninsula is likewise now Azura's Coast, and for whatever reason, the place on the extreme end of the world skipped this shift and is still known as Telvanni Peninsula, after the old fashion?
  • Kajuratus
    Kajuratus
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    Eh, I more or less switch between eastern peninsula and Telvanni peninsula concerning the eastern arm of Morrowind. Maybe they'll come up with a different name for it when they expand into it, but for now, it seems as good a name as any. Just don't call it "Eastern Morrowind" like they did with Elsweyr and Greymoor
    brylars wrote: »
    He also took issue with the emphasis on the Telvanni in the region and that it should have as much emphasis on the Indoril because of the location of Necrom.
    Its good to remember that Indoril is not the Temple during this time period, and Necrom is very much a holy city run by the Tribunal Temple. Thats not to say that Indoril doesn't hold some territory around Necrom, just that it doesn't necessarily mean it owns the city.
    brylars wrote: »
    Mods like Tamriel Rebuilt have used the name "Telvanni Peninsula" for the region since TES III was released.
    Tamriel Rebuilt uses districts to split up Morrowind. The six administrative districts, going clockwise in this map, are Vvardenfell, Telvannis, Mournhold, Deshaan, Narsis, and Velothis. Obviously, ESO's zones are shaped a little different, so Stonefalls includes parts of the Mournhold, Narsis and Velothis Districts, while Deshaan makes up parts of Narsis and Deshaan Districts. Thornmarsh, if it ever gets released, would complete the Deshaan District, while the rest of the Velothis District has been shrunk by the map. So any potential chapter that encompasses the rest of eastern Morrowind would include the rest of Mournhold and the entirety of Telvannis.
    brylars wrote: »
    Since we have Azura's Coast, do we call it Boethiah's Peninsula? Then we call the islands Mephala's Archipelago?
    Interestingly, Tamriel Rebuilt also thought of that. They have Boethiah's Spine and the Mephalan Vales as regions in eastern Morrowind. If ESO were to include these though, they'd most likely be either one of the three biomes they have in every zone, or a small quest location in the same sense as "Vivec's Antlers", rather than as a name for chapter's zone. I can't imagine they'd especially want to rename the Telvanni Isles.
    So the Dark Elves have weird alien architecture, where people live in mushroom towers and the shell of a giant crab, but the High Elves, the pinnacle of technology, the most magically advanced race in Tamriel, are still stuck in slightly pretty, fairly tall stone buildings? Not even a hint of a glass city? Are stainless glass windows really enough to claim that a city is made of glass?
  • kaushad
    kaushad
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    brylars wrote: »
    He also took issue with the emphasis on the Telvanni in the region and that it should have as much emphasis on the Indoril because of the location of Necrom.

    That's my concern, except I don't think that Necrom should be conflated with House Indoril, but rather be under the ownership and administration of the Temple. In Stonefalls and Deshaan, the Great Houses weren't explored with the kind of dedication that they had in either depiction of Vvardenfell. I find it frustrating that House Telvanni could get this, having already been a playable faction in TESIII and a side quest chain in Dragonborn and ESO, while House Indoril had a father and son in the Stonefalls main quest. After all, Stonefalls and Deshaan don't have whole regions that explicitly belong to single Great Houses.

    Furthermore, House Indoril merged with the reformed Temple in the 4th Era so it's effectively extinct, which means that we can only see it in historic games, like ESO. Whereas House Telvanni is pretty much the same in the 4th Era as it always has been, if possibly without (widespread) slavery and as much racism. Eastern Morrowind could be our last chance to see House Indoril, outside Tamriel Rebuilt, which shows promise in its concept statement. We really should have seen more of them in Mournhold, if anywhere. It's a similar situation to High Rock and Valenwood in ESO, except Bretons and Bosmer are going to be in every future TES game.


    What's more concerning than the name "Telvanni Peninsula", is Mel Adrys' dialogue in the "Bloody Reunion" quest:

    "My father passed away, joining our ancestors in our ancestral crypt. It was a long journey, escorting him to Necrom."
    "His passing meant little to me, beyond a tiresome task and a long journey through the lands of the Telvanni."
    "You should know, my family is of no great import. Some minor nobles in a Deshaan village."

    So if his father died in his own village, the "lands of the Telvanni" extend south of Necrom, perhaps even east of Stonefalls if not Deshaan.


    Edited by kaushad on December 12, 2022 10:07PM
  • Supreme_Atromancer
    Supreme_Atromancer
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    kaushad wrote: »
    brylars wrote: »
    He also took issue with the emphasis on the Telvanni in the region and that it should have as much emphasis on the Indoril because of the location of Necrom.

    That's my concern, except I don't think that Necrom should be conflated with House Indoril, but rather be under the ownership and administration of the Temple. In Stonefalls and Deshaan, the Great Houses weren't explored with the kind of dedication that they had in either depiction of Vvardenfell. I find it frustrating that House Telvanni could get this, having already been a playable faction in TESIII and a side quest chain in Dragonborn and ESO, while House Indoril had a father and son in the Stonefalls main quest. After all, Stonefalls and Deshaan don't have whole regions that explicitly belong to single Great Houses.

    Furthermore, House Indoril merged with the reformed Temple in the 4th Era so it's effectively extinct, which means that we can only see it in historic games, like ESO. Whereas House Telvanni is pretty much the same in the 4th Era as it always has been, if possibly without (widespread) slavery and as much racism. Eastern Morrowind could be our last chance to see House Indoril, outside Tamriel Rebuilt, which shows promise in its concept statement. We really should have seen more of them in Mournhold, if anywhere. It's a similar situation to High Rock and Valenwood in ESO, except Bretons and Bosmer are going to be in every future TES game.


    What's more concerning than the name "Telvanni Peninsula", is Mel Adrys' dialogue in the "Bloody Reunion" quest:

    "My father passed away, joining our ancestors in our ancestral crypt. It was a long journey, escorting him to Necrom."
    "His passing meant little to me, beyond a tiresome task and a long journey through the lands of the Telvanni."
    "You should know, my family is of no great import. Some minor nobles in a Deshaan village."

    So if his father died in his own village, the "lands of the Telvanni" extend south of Necrom, perhaps even east of Stonefalls if not Deshaan.


    Great post.

    I think its a matter of continuing to communicate to the devs what we feel like base game has dropped the ball on (lore-wise), why we think that, and ask them to find ways to remedy that for the future.

    It'd be really awesome if there could be open, two-way dialogue, but from all accounts, the developers watch the feedback and discussion, so its worth the effort. If nothing else, reading this stuff is always interesting- I frequent the lore forum here nowadays because I still learn aspects of the lore that fascinate me.
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