Treasure Maps and Leads

xXCJsniperXx7

Since the year of Skyrim, we have had leads drop from treasure maps, mostly for ancestral motif pages. This is an interesting drop location for leads as it also gives value to treasure maps. Something that was quite lacking with these in the prior updates to West Skyrim. However, an issue appears in relation to the leads probability: Thier chances of being pulled from the loot pool.
It's their odds of dropping from the chest being too low in percentage based stats. This is exacerbated by the additional low probability of the correct map being selected in the first place. A further issue with these Treasure Map Leads is the inability to farm them as there is no reliable way to effectively or efficiently gain the desired treasure maps.
The closest to such is running the Reach Harrowstorm circle to pick up Greyhost Satchels. But, this stacks another wall of math against collecting treasure map leads, your chance of getting a map from the very satchel. This is four levels of probability to acquire certain leads you may be looking for.
To give an example of all these numbers stacking, you start with a 1/4 chance of a Treasure Map being selected as the loot from a Greyhost Satchel. If and then the reward is chosen as a map you have a 2/170 chance of being one of two Deadlands maps.
Next, there is still an unknown value, x, for a motif page to be selected when opening the chest. Further there are 14 pages to may or may not be randomly picked of Ancestral Daedric Style. And lastly, after this, there is an adaptive probability based on what pages you have already collected. Inwhich the further you progress, the less probable you are to gain your missing pages.
Also, it is unknown if the calculation for motif drops is linear or variable. Meaning that pages are all random with 7.14% chance each or ranging where perhaps gloves= 20% while chest=3% for example. A multi leveled calculation like this is very improbable of success, and highly probable as a failure.
We see this for ourselves with the prices of maps and their respected pages reflecting this issue with leads. A solution to this problem has to be found to reach a point of compromise, a place where both we the players and devs can agree on where the odds should be placed. At a point of balance where most players can use these features in ESO. As of right now, these chances are way to low and complicated.
With them in current values, it is less likely the majority of the population would acquire Treasure Map Leads and the rewards on their own. Something must be done to make Treasure Map Leads viable, otherwise why are they here if most of us cannot use them?

Stinkyremy

Ouch...
Block of text.

Please reformat, use punctuation and paragraphs.

If not that is just eye *** and tl;dr

xXCJsniperXx7

It's not wanting to paragraph for some reason, I did edit it to try and place paragraphs and indents.

Edit: fixed it best I could.

CGPsaint

The primary reasons that I won't waste another second on the Ancestral Daedric leads:

• The lack of ability to farm zone-specific maps
• The ridiculously low drop rate for leads once a map is acquired (I'm at 10-11 maps per lead thus far)
• The ridiculously low chance of getting a lead that you haven't already gotten. (I have 4 pages learned in total, and have pulled Gloves 5 times thus far)

Very poor implementation of lead sourcing.

Grega

I mean take Galen for example. They locked a fragment for skin lead there (which is imo something way more population want than motif) and pair it with RNG of the ugly egg furniture lead to be the 95% chance for it. So you got like 5% chance to get the right lead, after also RNG to even get any lead, then another RNG to get the right map, and then another RNG to get a map vs pardon edict. Like. It’s a part time job!

Like end game is becoming easier than this.

If there is reasoning for this, the only one I see is they want all sorts of players to be frustrated, not just end game. Which is …. well …. Frustrating.

cmetzger93

There are so many layers of RNG for treasure map motifs that it's not even funny (or enjoyable) I hope they get away from this as there is nobody who enjoys sourcing them this way

Stinkyremy

cmetzger93 wrote: »

There are so many layers of RNG for treasure map motifs that it's not even funny (or enjoyable) I hope they get away from this as there is nobody who enjoys sourcing them this way

Motifs are not so bad.
The idea is the community works together, trading them amongst themselves and with each other.
Back before the outfit system, only crafters wanted motifs, now it is different so crafters, collectors and specific people who want that outfit style also want the motifs so the motif desire has gone up, and that means fewer motifs in stores.

Still with motifs, say the maps drop infrequently, but there are X amount of players who the maps drop for, who then sell (destroy, [snip] them) use or bank the map.
Then when anyone uses the map there is a low drop rate but leads do drop, people excavate and only X amount of players who excavate actually want the motif, which means there are X amount of motifs floating around the community, and some are in the store.

Leads on the other hand...well it is the whole crappy and ever increasing map RNG drop rate, with the incredibly low lead drop rate, to then not being able to trade the lead itself. Well that is just an inflated need for the incredibly low drop rate of the map.

Motifs, i guess after this event ancestral reach motifs will be extremely cheap. Or the maps will. Same way the other maps for ancestral motifs are cheap now too.

[edited for profanity bypass]

jaws343

Reach/Skyrim maps are now dropping during an event for the second time since launch, you can pick up the maps for under 5K in a lot of cases, or just farm the event boxes and drop a ton of them.

Blackwood maps also dropped a ton during the associated chapter event, and are also all sub 10K at least for the maps.

Deadlands maps didn't have an event, but the maps are all sub 40K still.

High Isle maps had an event, and you can already get them for around 10K a piece in traders.

Galen maps are expensive, but the DLC has not even been out for a month yet. It takes around 2-3 months for the map prices to dip down due to them being more proliferated amongst the community after a bit of time. Pair that with the fact that rather than farming 14 pages from the maps, you are farming 2 leads, and the demand is going to end up being far lower.

From experience it takes somewhere between 100-150 maps to farm 14 unique motif pages. But of those 150 or so, you are still getting a ton of duplicate pages.

Farming 2 leads from Galen maps will take significantly less maps and by the end of the year, those maps will be far cheaper than they are today. For console, the Galen maps have already dipped down to 150K a piece, and I expect that to be sub 75K by New Life.

Carcamongus

There are 186 treasure maps in the game, meaning the chance of getting a Deadlands or Galen one is 1,075%. I've found 19 of the former, but only 4 yielded leads, two of which were repeats. I've found 2 of the latter and no leads dropped. I was able to complete the ancestral Akaviri style because of the Blackwood event, but that was before the Deadlands DLC came out. At this rate, without an event that includes that zone my odds of finishing the ancient Daedric style before TES7 is released aren't very good.

lardvader

Yeah the vanilla zones are easy enough but the dlc drops is not something I'll grind or farm in it's current state. The need to boost drop rates and have curated leads.

Grega

jaws343 wrote: »

Reach/Skyrim maps are now dropping during an event for the second time since launch, you can pick up the maps for under 5K in a lot of cases, or just farm the event boxes and drop a ton of them.

Blackwood maps also dropped a ton during the associated chapter event, and are also all sub 10K at least for the maps.

Deadlands maps didn't have an event, but the maps are all sub 40K still.

High Isle maps had an event, and you can already get them for around 10K a piece in traders.

Galen maps are expensive, but the DLC has not even been out for a month yet. It takes around 2-3 months for the map prices to dip down due to them being more proliferated amongst the community after a bit of time. Pair that with the fact that rather than farming 14 pages from the maps, you are farming 2 leads, and the demand is going to end up being far lower.

From experience it takes somewhere between 100-150 maps to farm 14 unique motif pages. But of those 150 or so, you are still getting a ton of duplicate pages.

Farming 2 leads from Galen maps will take significantly less maps and by the end of the year, those maps will be far cheaper than they are today. For console, the Galen maps have already dipped down to 150K a piece, and I expect that to be sub 75K by New Life.

Nicely put. I will say tho, the drop rate for Galen leads seems to be significantly lower % than ancestral leads in prior dlcs, or I got hit by a RNG hammer. 45 maps and still 0 leads. That means if it was ancestral, out of 150 maps I’d only get 3/14 leads.

I do agree the price will drop eventually. It always does

CGPsaint

I'm guessing that the only reason that we're even seeing Galen maps for sale currently is because people are farming Harrowstorms for double drops. When the event ends tomorrow, we're going to be seeing less people farming, and less Galen treasure maps. I have been farming Harrowstorms like crazy and have yet to get a single Galen map. To put it into perspective, I've deconstructed enough purple jewelry for Zircon grains that I've refined over 40 Zircon platings, and in the same time period have not seen a Galen map drop. I've also pulled 4 purple Vampiric furnishing plans and 6-7 Vampire Window leads. I hate to say it, but that doesn't bode well for Galen maps going forward.

Stinkyremy

CGPsaint wrote: »

I'm guessing that the only reason that we're even seeing Galen maps for sale currently is because people are farming Harrowstorms for double drops. When the event ends tomorrow, we're going to be seeing less people farming, and less Galen treasure maps. I have been farming Harrowstorms like crazy and have yet to get a single Galen map. To put it into perspective, I've deconstructed enough purple jewelry for Zircon grains that I've refined over 40 Zircon platings, and in the same time period have not seen a Galen map drop. I've also pulled 4 purple Vampiric furnishing plans and 6-7 Vampire Window leads. I hate to say it, but that doesn't bode well for Galen maps going forward.

Correct me if I am wrong but the maps that drop from the harrows and event boxes are only for reach and western skyrim. i don't remember getting a single map from anywhere but those 2 zones, and the 2 underground areas in blackreach from the event.

Grega

Stinkyremy wrote: »

CGPsaint wrote: »

I'm guessing that the only reason that we're even seeing Galen maps for sale currently is because people are farming Harrowstorms for double drops. When the event ends tomorrow, we're going to be seeing less people farming, and less Galen treasure maps. I have been farming Harrowstorms like crazy and have yet to get a single Galen map. To put it into perspective, I've deconstructed enough purple jewelry for Zircon grains that I've refined over 40 Zircon platings, and in the same time period have not seen a Galen map drop. I've also pulled 4 purple Vampiric furnishing plans and 6-7 Vampire Window leads. I hate to say it, but that doesn't bode well for Galen maps going forward.

Correct me if I am wrong but the maps that drop from the harrows and event boxes are only for reach and western skyrim. i don't remember getting a single map from anywhere but those 2 zones, and the 2 underground areas in blackreach from the event.

The gray reliquary satchels are the ones that drop any treasure map. And they drop from harrowstorms, during this event it could drop in several from just one storm.

CGPsaint

Grega wrote: »

The gray reliquary satchels are the ones that drop any treasure map. And they drop from harrowstorms, during this event it could drop in several from just one storm.

This! I continue my farming until midnight last night to take advantage of the double drops. I scored a boatload of purple Vampiric furnishing plans, even more jewelry mats, but no Galen treasure maps.

@Grega Are you a 5 star on Xbox/NA? If so, I definitely saw you last night doing the Harrowstorm circuit in the Reach!

whitecrow

I just got a Galen map from a Gray Reliquary Satchel. Fingers crossed...

CGPsaint

whitecrow wrote: »

I just got a Galen map from a Gray Reliquary Satchel. Fingers crossed...

May the odds be ever in your favor! I purchased 4 total maps (3 at 100K, and 1 at 5K) and thankfully got both leads within those 4 maps!

Necrotech_Master

i refuse to buy maps for leads, and trading stuff like motifs does not fill out codex entries

i dont mind having the chance to get something from a map, but when there is so much to get the chances really need to be significantly higher than they currently are

heck i wouldnt even mind if those leads were dang near guaranteed from treasure maps

FeedbackOnly

cmetzger93 wrote: »

There are so many layers of RNG for treasure map motifs that it's not even funny (or enjoyable) I hope they get away from this as there is nobody who enjoys sourcing them this way

Yes if it was simpler then would be less of a problem.

Grega

CGPsaint wrote: »

Grega wrote: »

The gray reliquary satchels are the ones that drop any treasure map. And they drop from harrowstorms, during this event it could drop in several from just one storm.

This! I continue my farming until midnight last night to take advantage of the double drops. I scored a boatload of purple Vampiric furnishing plans, even more jewelry mats, but no Galen treasure maps.

@Grega Are you a 5 star on Xbox/NA? If so, I definitely saw you last night doing the Harrowstorm circuit in the Reach!

@CGPsaint yep I saw you picking a chest on few occasions but as you know … we were pressed on time to get that one hit on a boss before it dropped all the attention I could give was like 3 seconds lol 😂

boi_anachronism_

I got one out of idk, hundreds of drops during the event. I also have an enormous amount of plating. I'll get the lead in 6 months, I'm not dropping a few hundred thousand per map. Thing is that these maps are getting used Immediately and not many are dropping. The skin lead is a big part of it. They will likely be expensive for a bit.

CGPsaint

Grega wrote: »

@CGPsaint yep I saw you picking a chest on few occasions but as you know … we were pressed on time to get that one hit on a boss before it dropped all the attention I could give was like 3 seconds lol 😂

There are at least 6-7 chests that I was checking on doing the Harrowstorm circuit, and can safely say that none of them netted a Galen map either!

Grega

CGPsaint wrote: »

Grega wrote: »

@CGPsaint yep I saw you picking a chest on few occasions but as you know … we were pressed on time to get that one hit on a boss before it dropped all the attention I could give was like 3 seconds lol 😂

There are at least 6-7 chests that I was checking on doing the Harrowstorm circuit, and can safely say that none of them netted a Galen map either!

So I got a Galen map from a chest, once only. I got several from thieves troves, and even got a map of a simple enemy npc in black rock delve. And I got about 1 Galen map per 100 satchels, approximately. I also bought an amount of them for 70-100k, but didn’t go above that.

All in all, 54 maps total.
No lead

majulook

Did they even fix the antiquity drop from the Galen Maps? I thought it was still bugged.

CGPsaint

Grega wrote: »

So I got a Galen map from a chest, once only. I got several from thieves troves, and even got a map of a simple enemy npc in black rock delve. And I got about 1 Galen map per 100 satchels, approximately. I also bought an amount of them for 70-100k, but didn’t go above that.

All in all, 54 maps total.
No lead

After getting both leads within 4 maps, I'm pretty certain that I've used up all of my RNG for the next couple of years.

majulook wrote: »

Did they even fix the antiquity drop from the Galen Maps? I thought it was still bugged.

Nope. I can confirm that the lead for the skin and the shoulders both drop.