Stamblade dps question

Amerises

BRP daggers front bar plus pillar backbar (right now, have bow) vs pillar front bar with MA greatsword backbar

I don’t have perfect great sword, but do have perfected daggers if that makes a difference

Is it worth switching up my weapons set up?

WrathOfInnos

MA greatsword was nerfed heavily last update. MA bow now outperforms it for long fights, and MA staff for short bursty fights or anything that requires area damage.

Many people are doing the back bar Pillar build, often with Whorl of Depths front bar and a monster helm set. Make sure you are going to back bar every 10s to proc the set, which is not always easy with the long duration DoTs. In my testing this setup performed about the same as a vMA bow or staff back bar and no monster set (Whorl or Pillar front bar), so it's really just personal preference. BRP daggers are not competitive damage, so only use them if you need the extra defense.

dmnqwk

With the current system in place you have 14 slots available for set pieces.
Two 5 set bonuses (on different bars because they are not continuous, but procs) and a monster set take up 12 of these - leaving you 2 slots free to pick:
1. Wading Kilt and a 4 set bonus on both bars
2. An arena weapon

If you look at the Wading Kilt it's going to be worth:
1100 crit (slightly over 5% crit)
10% crit damage

If we are to assume a 50% crit, 80% crit damage setup then:
Without kilt we'd be sitting on a damage modifier of 1.4 (base 1 plus 50% of 80% extra)

With kilt this would be 55% crit 90% crit damage, making it a modifier of 1.495, adding approximately 6.78% damage.
BRP Daggers would add 6% and give us a modifier of 1.4*1.06 or 1.484

If you raise this to 60% crit, 110% crit damage (because of trial buffs) then it becomes base modifier of 1.66:
Kilt: 65% crit for 120% crit damage, modifier becoming 1.78
Daggers 6%*1.66 is 1.7596

So in comparison to a baseline, then the difference between Kilt and Daggers is very small, but you have to factor in the following consideration:
1. Target switching wherein you lose the kilt buff (lasts 20 seconds so not that often)
2. Ramp time of kilt
3. Target switching wherein your blade cloak doesn't proc the 6% and you lose a tick
4. Mostly importantly, the 4 set bonus of 129 spell/weapon damage lost by not being able to 4 set both bars.

To suggest BRP daggers are not competitive is not strictly true - they are very close to kilt in terms of the way the meta runs Nirn/Whorl on different bars.

What I would suggest, however, is that the 6% less damage taken is worth the minute damage lost. Not to mention that using the Daggers adds the perfected bonus of sustain, which is not entirely useless.

WrathOfInnos

dmnqwk wrote: »

With the current system in place you have 14 slots available for set pieces.
Two 5 set bonuses (on different bars because they are not continuous, but procs) and a monster set take up 12 of these - leaving you 2 slots free to pick:
1. Wading Kilt and a 4 set bonus on both bars
2. An arena weapon

If you look at the Wading Kilt it's going to be worth:
1100 crit (slightly over 5% crit)
10% crit damage

If we are to assume a 50% crit, 80% crit damage setup then:
Without kilt we'd be sitting on a damage modifier of 1.4 (base 1 plus 50% of 80% extra)

With kilt this would be 55% crit 90% crit damage, making it a modifier of 1.495, adding approximately 6.78% damage.
BRP Daggers would add 6% and give us a modifier of 1.4*1.06 or 1.484

If you raise this to 60% crit, 110% crit damage (because of trial buffs) then it becomes base modifier of 1.66:
Kilt: 65% crit for 120% crit damage, modifier becoming 1.78
Daggers 6%*1.66 is 1.7596

So in comparison to a baseline, then the difference between Kilt and Daggers is very small, but you have to factor in the following consideration:
1. Target switching wherein you lose the kilt buff (lasts 20 seconds so not that often)
2. Ramp time of kilt
3. Target switching wherein your blade cloak doesn't proc the 6% and you lose a tick
4. Mostly importantly, the 4 set bonus of 129 spell/weapon damage lost by not being able to 4 set both bars.

To suggest BRP daggers are not competitive is not strictly true - they are very close to kilt in terms of the way the meta runs Nirn/Whorl on different bars.

What I would suggest, however, is that the 6% less damage taken is worth the minute damage lost. Not to mention that using the Daggers adds the perfected bonus of sustain, which is not entirely useless.

I agree with your calculations on the kilt giving close to 7% DPS. However you are not considering that it is 1pc and can be combined with 1 Slimecraw for an additional 3.5% crit chance. In your 2nd example this results in 68.5% crit chance and a modifier of 1.822, or a 9.8% DPS increase from the 2 slots combined.

For the BRP daggers, I think it's rare that the 103 stam recovery has any meaningful impact on damage, but certainly there are cases where it could. Mainly looking at the "6%" damage increase. The problem here is that the 6% is additive with other damage done bonuses, such as Slayer, Berserk, CP's and various other sets and passives. These typically add up to at least 25% before Spectral Cloak, which then becomes 31% after the bonus. 1.31/1.25 is a 4.8% DPS increase from the BRP dagger bonus.

Comparing the 2 options above, the first is more than double the effectiveness of the 2nd, and a 5% difference in DPS from how you fill 2 of the 14 slots is massive. I believe the BRP daggers are balanced with the 6% mitigation in mind as well, which explains why their offensive bonus is half of a competitive value.

To be fair, you mention the 4pc Pillar being lost on front bar, which is somewhere around 1.7% DPS while active and average ~1.3% DPS. Adding that to the Kilt's 7.2% results in 8.5% DPS. This is closer to the BRP dagger's <4.8%, but I still wouldn't say it is competitive.

We may also be comparing apples and oranges here, because BRP daggers can be combined with the kilt, giving up the 2pc monster set and just using 1 slimecraw. I won't try to compare this since monster sets can give vastly different results in various scenarios.

Amerises

So backbar vMA greatsword is going to be better than front bar vBRP daggers it sounds like.

With a non static rotation on stamblade, pillar doesn’t seem like it needs to be on both bars, so I was wondering where to what what arena weapon, regardless of kilt or not, haha. But thank you for the calculations!