CP tree

derkaiserliche

I still feel disappointed that there is no real reason to grind cp-points after you hit like 1200cp. I think this leads to players loosing their motivation to play the game since the levels are basically useless.

For me it would be nice to have a least some (very small) passives to increase, so you still feel like you are progressing and getting stronger, even if its basically just 30life or something.

What is your opinion on it?

majulook

The more CP the more stars filled... So you can swap them out to have a single character fill multiple roles, In both PVE and PVP. Also thieving, and container buffs for recipe / plans.

Swapping Stars is free, Reallocating CP into different Stars is a cost.

El_Borracho

I'm with @majulook. For PVE alone, its great for tanks so you can swap out what you put on your CP bar for certain situations. Same for DDs, like if you need to slot something like Slippery for the end of vDSR or if you want to go from single target to AOE.

The one CP slot I do have a gripe about is Master Gatherer. A 75 points to lower the time it takes to harvest from a node, that has to be slotted. That's just petty.

virtus753

majulook wrote: »

The more CP the more stars filled... So you can swap them out to have a single character fill multiple roles, In both PVE and PVP. Also thieving, and container buffs for recipe / plans.

Swapping Stars is free, Reallocating CP into different Stars is a cost.

Saving gold is not the same as vertical progression in terms of a character’s strength, though. They deliberately capped vertical progression in the 1500s for the blue tree and 1600s for the red tree. After that, it’s all saving gold costs, not an increase in actual power. There is a substantial qualitative difference in those two goals, and it is unsurprising to find people less motivated to pursue the former than the latter.

The costs can also largely be mitigated for swapping roles by using the armory system, so you don’t have to pay repeatedly to dump dps slottables for tank slottables, for example. That takes a lot of the monetary incentive away from progressing past the vertical cap.

Drammanoth

Develop CP Craft tree - my wish for CP 2.0

Ragnarok0130

majulook wrote: »

The more CP the more stars filled... So you can swap them out to have a single character fill multiple roles, In both PVE and PVP. Also thieving, and container buffs for recipe / plans.

Swapping Stars is free, Reallocating CP into different Stars is a cost.

Precisely! I'm in the CP1500s but am happy whenever I get additional CP unlocked for this very reason.

Ragnarok0130

virtus753 wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

The more CP the more stars filled... So you can swap them out to have a single character fill multiple roles, In both PVE and PVP. Also thieving, and container buffs for recipe / plans.

Swapping Stars is free, Reallocating CP into different Stars is a cost.

Saving gold is not the same as vertical progression in terms of a character’s strength, though. They deliberately capped vertical progression in the 1500s for the blue tree and 1600s for the red tree. After that, it’s all saving gold costs, not an increase in actual power. There is a substantial qualitative difference in those two goals, and it is unsurprising to find people less motivated to pursue the former than the latter.

The costs can also largely be mitigated for swapping roles by using the armory system, so you don’t have to pay repeatedly to dump dps slottables for tank slottables, for example. That takes a lot of the monetary incentive away from progressing past the vertical cap.

If we're being pendantic there's no vertical progression after level 50, or CP 160 when it comes to gear. For CP not everything comes down to power increases but by having the flexibility to change one's build to meet a need with minimal effort. A good example of this is being able to do a situational role better than with your normal build such as tomb healing on Lokke by swapping out a CP node or two without additional gold costs. Since Lokke is in a Trial this is also a situation where the armory assistant is unavailable.

virtus753

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

The more CP the more stars filled... So you can swap them out to have a single character fill multiple roles, In both PVE and PVP. Also thieving, and container buffs for recipe / plans.

Swapping Stars is free, Reallocating CP into different Stars is a cost.

Saving gold is not the same as vertical progression in terms of a character’s strength, though. They deliberately capped vertical progression in the 1500s for the blue tree and 1600s for the red tree. After that, it’s all saving gold costs, not an increase in actual power. There is a substantial qualitative difference in those two goals, and it is unsurprising to find people less motivated to pursue the former than the latter.

The costs can also largely be mitigated for swapping roles by using the armory system, so you don’t have to pay repeatedly to dump dps slottables for tank slottables, for example. That takes a lot of the monetary incentive away from progressing past the vertical cap.

If we're being pendantic there's no vertical progression after level 50, or CP 160 when it comes to gear. For CP not everything comes down to power increases but by having the flexibility to change one's build to meet a need with minimal effort. A good example of this is being able to do a situational role better than with your normal build such as tomb healing on Lokke by swapping out a CP node or two without additional gold costs. Since Lokke is in a Trial this is also a situation where the armory assistant is unavailable.

There is no further progression for gear past 160, but there are quite a few vertical progression increases in later CP (with the term “vertical progression” explicitly used by the devs in their description of CP 2.0): true passives people will want permanently like extra health, stam, mag, healing done, healing received, 10% less damage taken from mobs, 2% less damage taken from all sources exception oblivion damage, extra crit chance, extra chance to apply status effects, extra weapon/spell damage, etc. Then there are swappable bonuses like 6% extra damage with direct or DoTs or single target or AoE, 8% crit damage and healing, 10% crit damage while flanking, etc.

I’m not sure how extra raw stats, damage done, healing done and received, etc., don’t qualify as vertical progression, even pedantically. Those all translate directly to more power and therefore constitute an advantage over characters who don’t have those stats in both PvE and PvP. What am I missing?

Also, to be pedantic, you can use an Armory slot change just before Lokke in Sunspire. You just can’t use it on vet. The armory assistant is available in all norm content and in all vet content when a timer is not running for score (i.e. in all dungeons and before the start/after the completion of a timer in vet trials - I used mine in vKA last week after the group had finished the last boss in order to test something).

derkaiserliche

Just having different options to skill without spending 3k gold doesnt really motivate someone to level 2k more cp i guess.
I get the idea that having alot of cp should not make a character a lot stronger that someone with less cp, but it still should be a difference between someone with 1.3k cp and someone with 3.3k cp to me.

And i am sure i am not the only one who stopped caring about his cp when he maxed out the passives of the blue tree and got the 4 actives there.

Ragnarok0130

virtus753 wrote: »

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

The more CP the more stars filled... So you can swap them out to have a single character fill multiple roles, In both PVE and PVP. Also thieving, and container buffs for recipe / plans.

Swapping Stars is free, Reallocating CP into different Stars is a cost.

Saving gold is not the same as vertical progression in terms of a character’s strength, though. They deliberately capped vertical progression in the 1500s for the blue tree and 1600s for the red tree. After that, it’s all saving gold costs, not an increase in actual power. There is a substantial qualitative difference in those two goals, and it is unsurprising to find people less motivated to pursue the former than the latter.

The costs can also largely be mitigated for swapping roles by using the armory system, so you don’t have to pay repeatedly to dump dps slottables for tank slottables, for example. That takes a lot of the monetary incentive away from progressing past the vertical cap.

If we're being pendantic there's no vertical progression after level 50, or CP 160 when it comes to gear. For CP not everything comes down to power increases but by having the flexibility to change one's build to meet a need with minimal effort. A good example of this is being able to do a situational role better than with your normal build such as tomb healing on Lokke by swapping out a CP node or two without additional gold costs. Since Lokke is in a Trial this is also a situation where the armory assistant is unavailable.

There is no further progression for gear past 160, but there are quite a few vertical progression increases in later CP (with the term “vertical progression” explicitly used by the devs in their description of CP 2.0): true passives people will want permanently like extra health, stam, mag, healing done, healing received, 10% less damage taken from mobs, 2% less damage taken from all sources exception oblivion damage, extra crit chance, extra chance to apply status effects, extra weapon/spell damage, etc. Then there are swappable bonuses like 6% extra damage with direct or DoTs or single target or AoE, 8% crit damage and healing, 10% crit damage while flanking, etc.

I’m not sure how extra raw stats, damage done, healing done and received, etc., don’t qualify as vertical progression, even pedantically. Those all translate directly to more power and therefore constitute an advantage over characters who don’t have those stats in both PvE and PvP. What am I missing?

Also, to be pedantic, you can use an Armory slot change just before Lokke in Sunspire. You just can’t use it on vet. The armory assistant is available in all norm content and in all vet content when a timer is not running for score (i.e. in all dungeons and before the start/after the completion of a timer in vet trials - I used mine in vKA last week after the group had finished the last boss in order to test something).

People run trials on normal? ;-) I kid, I kid, but serious I generally run vet when I'm in a trial unless I'm answering a Crag LFG when I'm looking for work. I understand what you're saying however raw power stats isn't all CP is good for as far as I'm concerned although you are right there are CP stars particularly in the red tree that everyone generally takes like extra health/stam/mag.

I'm a trial healer so I tend to look at the total utility of the CP in accomplishing the group mission as opposed to what gives me the most power increase so I don't see CP gain after 1200 as a wash because it gives me a lot of flexibility. I think it's vital to be able to flex on the fly regardless of if we're in normal or vet with or without a timer simply by slotting another node (preferably for free). I'm also constantly short on gold since I do participate in the ESO's actual end game of fashion and housing (and golding out my gear) so saving gold is a big bonus!

virtus753

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

The more CP the more stars filled... So you can swap them out to have a single character fill multiple roles, In both PVE and PVP. Also thieving, and container buffs for recipe / plans.

Swapping Stars is free, Reallocating CP into different Stars is a cost.

Saving gold is not the same as vertical progression in terms of a character’s strength, though. They deliberately capped vertical progression in the 1500s for the blue tree and 1600s for the red tree. After that, it’s all saving gold costs, not an increase in actual power. There is a substantial qualitative difference in those two goals, and it is unsurprising to find people less motivated to pursue the former than the latter.

The costs can also largely be mitigated for swapping roles by using the armory system, so you don’t have to pay repeatedly to dump dps slottables for tank slottables, for example. That takes a lot of the monetary incentive away from progressing past the vertical cap.

If we're being pendantic there's no vertical progression after level 50, or CP 160 when it comes to gear. For CP not everything comes down to power increases but by having the flexibility to change one's build to meet a need with minimal effort. A good example of this is being able to do a situational role better than with your normal build such as tomb healing on Lokke by swapping out a CP node or two without additional gold costs. Since Lokke is in a Trial this is also a situation where the armory assistant is unavailable.

There is no further progression for gear past 160, but there are quite a few vertical progression increases in later CP (with the term “vertical progression” explicitly used by the devs in their description of CP 2.0): true passives people will want permanently like extra health, stam, mag, healing done, healing received, 10% less damage taken from mobs, 2% less damage taken from all sources exception oblivion damage, extra crit chance, extra chance to apply status effects, extra weapon/spell damage, etc. Then there are swappable bonuses like 6% extra damage with direct or DoTs or single target or AoE, 8% crit damage and healing, 10% crit damage while flanking, etc.

I’m not sure how extra raw stats, damage done, healing done and received, etc., don’t qualify as vertical progression, even pedantically. Those all translate directly to more power and therefore constitute an advantage over characters who don’t have those stats in both PvE and PvP. What am I missing?

Also, to be pedantic, you can use an Armory slot change just before Lokke in Sunspire. You just can’t use it on vet. The armory assistant is available in all norm content and in all vet content when a timer is not running for score (i.e. in all dungeons and before the start/after the completion of a timer in vet trials - I used mine in vKA last week after the group had finished the last boss in order to test something).

People run trials on normal? ;-) I kid, I kid, but serious I generally run vet when I'm in a trial unless I'm answering a Crag LFG when I'm looking for work. I understand what you're saying however raw power stats isn't all CP is good for as far as I'm concerned although you are right there are CP stars particularly in the red tree that everyone generally takes like extra health/stam/mag.

I'm a trial healer so I tend to look at the total utility of the CP in accomplishing the group mission as opposed to what gives me the most power increase so I don't see CP gain after 1200 as a wash because it gives me a lot of flexibility. I think it's vital to be able to flex on the fly regardless of if we're in normal or vet with or without a timer simply by slotting another node (preferably for free). I'm also constantly short on gold since I do participate in the ESO's actual end game of fashion and housing (and golding out my gear) so saving gold is a big bonus!

Yes, I agree it’s not worthless. Flexibility without cost is very nice. Even on dps I appreciate having Boundless Vitality and Fortified and Rejuvenation and Celerity and Bracing Anchor and Slippery and Spirit Mastery, etc., available freely on demand to suit the needs of the fight and the group. On tank there’s also a selection of more than four slottables that are desirable depending on context.

But there is a difference, I feel, between the power that comes with vertical progression and the horizontal progression that lets me save money. I appreciate not having to spend as much money, but I find myself not as motivated as I was when I was reaching for the vertical cap. There is still a sense of achievement when I can fill another optional slottable, but it’s lesser than when I was not yet at cap.