As a policy, game altering bugs with core-combat abilities should be hotfixed rather than patched.

Dr_Con

Going forward, I hope to see issues with core combat abilities being treated much more seriously than they have been. Having to wait 1/3rd of a patch cycle for a fix to a core combat ability that wasn't even broken last patch cycle and wasn't worked on for this cycle other than for a mythic that few people even have is not acceptable.

tmbrinks

This is a beast of their own making.

The PTS is supposed to be there to "stress test" the new patch. But after years of ignoring player feedback from the PTS, who would spend time to actually test things? No respect for our time and effort on the PTS, means we won't do it.

It also matters where the issue is.... client-side or server-side. If server-side, they can do a hotfix. If it's client-side, they have to push out a patch, which requires certification time, hence the delay.

But, these types of bugs could be significantly less likely to happen if...
1. Players were actually listened to about things on the PTS, our feedback and reports actually heeded/responded to/etc...
2. PTS cycle was LONGER, so that there was adequate time to test ideas. The 4 major updates a year is a breakneck pace and leads to these errors
3. Players were actually rewarded and encouraged to go onto the PTS to test (as nothing they do on there "matters" for their account in terms of growth/progress/etc...)

I know I spent far less time on this PTS, checked my addons I author to see if the API update broke any of them, updated them... and that was it.

Why would I have spent my precious free time when nothing would come of it?

spartaxoxo

tmbrinks wrote: »

This is a beast of their own making.

I don't think I saw the block bug prominently reported on the PTS. It wasn't in the combat bugs thread, and a quick search through the PTS forum's thread titles, I didn't see it there either. Was this widely known before the launch? it seemed to come as a surprise to many players, but I can't be certain as I didn't really monitor the PTS forum this cycle and can't contribute on my own due to being on console. They could definitely do some of those things, so I'm not disagreeing with the general principle. I agree with most of the sentiment, although I would hope any rewards would be something console either had a chance to earn or wasn't super exclusive e.g. Twitch Crates. But, even if they did, some bugs would just slip through.

SammyKhajit

Fully agree.

This one would have done dodge/roll as a workaround if there isn’t also a lag, which makes the reaction slower. Sammy isn’t an “end game” player by any means but the block bug is still annoying.

NettleCarrier

spartaxoxo wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

This is a beast of their own making.

I don't think I saw the block bug prominently reported on the PTS. It wasn't in the combat bugs thread, and a quick search through the PTS forum's thread titles, I didn't see it there either. Was this widely known before the launch? it seemed to come as a surprise to many players, but I can't be certain as I didn't really monitor the PTS forum this cycle and can't contribute on my own due to being on console. They could definitely do some of those things, so I'm not disagreeing with the general principle. I agree with most of the sentiment, although I would hope any rewards would be something console either had a chance to earn or wasn't super exclusive e.g. Twitch Crates. But, even if they did, some bugs would just slip through.

I think the message here was that nobody was stress testing combat because they feel their testing efforts are pointless. When you test patch after patch and report issues and those issues keep going live on launch then most people just stop testing altogether. I know if I log on to the PTS for any reason, it's to play with a new set or look at new furnishings. Anything else is pointless to me to report on. The current block bug is very situational so it was likely not even noticed. Without a new trial being in U36, nobody was really testing defenses. Some of us don't even notice, I certainly haven't - and my friend who normally tanks for our group mentioned it's only after roll dodging or something like that and he's been able to work around it knowing that.

virtus753

NettleCarrier wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

This is a beast of their own making.

I don't think I saw the block bug prominently reported on the PTS. It wasn't in the combat bugs thread, and a quick search through the PTS forum's thread titles, I didn't see it there either. Was this widely known before the launch? it seemed to come as a surprise to many players, but I can't be certain as I didn't really monitor the PTS forum this cycle and can't contribute on my own due to being on console. They could definitely do some of those things, so I'm not disagreeing with the general principle. I agree with most of the sentiment, although I would hope any rewards would be something console either had a chance to earn or wasn't super exclusive e.g. Twitch Crates. But, even if they did, some bugs would just slip through.

I think the message here was that nobody was stress testing combat because they feel their testing efforts are pointless. When you test patch after patch and report issues and those issues keep going live on launch then most people just stop testing altogether. I know if I log on to the PTS for any reason, it's to play with a new set or look at new furnishings. Anything else is pointless to me to report on. The current block bug is very situational so it was likely not even noticed. Without a new trial being in U36, nobody was really testing defenses. Some of us don't even notice, I certainly haven't - and my friend who normally tanks for our group mentioned it's only after roll dodging or something like that and he's been able to work around it knowing that.

It’s a lot more than that - there are multiple block bugs with different causes, per Gina, and that can be seen in game. Roll dodging removes block until you manually reapply, yes, but bashing and blockcasting together causes unwanted behavior as well. If a tank isn’t in the habit of bashing and blockcasting, they might not have noticed that particular one, but there are others as well.

There is additionally one affecting primarily dps - channeled skills now require a block press to cancel and another block to apply block, but you can’t hit them too close together or the second block press doesn’t apply. Good luck playing a templar with a channeled class spammable for both non-execute and execute. (Even if you run a non-channeled spammable until 40%, they’ve shoehorned us into using Radiant Oppression at that point or miss out on a plurality of our damage.) Those meteors will get you in KA and RG and such because you often don’t have time to block-cancel your spammable and then put up an actual block. You just have to hope you’re not in a channel when the meteors start coming down, or you’re at risk of blocking not working.

zaria

virtus753 wrote: »

NettleCarrier wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

This is a beast of their own making.

I don't think I saw the block bug prominently reported on the PTS. It wasn't in the combat bugs thread, and a quick search through the PTS forum's thread titles, I didn't see it there either. Was this widely known before the launch? it seemed to come as a surprise to many players, but I can't be certain as I didn't really monitor the PTS forum this cycle and can't contribute on my own due to being on console. They could definitely do some of those things, so I'm not disagreeing with the general principle. I agree with most of the sentiment, although I would hope any rewards would be something console either had a chance to earn or wasn't super exclusive e.g. Twitch Crates. But, even if they did, some bugs would just slip through.

I think the message here was that nobody was stress testing combat because they feel their testing efforts are pointless. When you test patch after patch and report issues and those issues keep going live on launch then most people just stop testing altogether. I know if I log on to the PTS for any reason, it's to play with a new set or look at new furnishings. Anything else is pointless to me to report on. The current block bug is very situational so it was likely not even noticed. Without a new trial being in U36, nobody was really testing defenses. Some of us don't even notice, I certainly haven't - and my friend who normally tanks for our group mentioned it's only after roll dodging or something like that and he's been able to work around it knowing that.

It’s a lot more than that - there are multiple block bugs with different causes, per Gina, and that can be seen in game. Roll dodging removes block until you manually reapply, yes, but bashing and blockcasting together causes unwanted behavior as well. If a tank isn’t in the habit of bashing and blockcasting, they might not have noticed that particular one, but there are others as well.

There is additionally one affecting primarily dps - channeled skills now require a block press to cancel and another block to apply block, but you can’t hit them too close together or the second block press doesn’t apply. Good luck playing a templar with a channeled class spammable for both non-execute and execute. (Even if you run a non-channeled spammable until 40%, they’ve shoehorned us into using Radiant Oppression at that point or miss out on a plurality of our damage.) Those meteors will get you in KA and RG and such because you often don’t have time to block-cancel your spammable and then put up an actual block. You just have to hope you’re not in a channel when the meteors start coming down, or you’re at risk of blocking not working.

Last one I have noticed, weird bug I say block canceling should also block. Purpose of block canceling is to interrupt channel and cast an heal or something.

virtus753

zaria wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

NettleCarrier wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

This is a beast of their own making.

I don't think I saw the block bug prominently reported on the PTS. It wasn't in the combat bugs thread, and a quick search through the PTS forum's thread titles, I didn't see it there either. Was this widely known before the launch? it seemed to come as a surprise to many players, but I can't be certain as I didn't really monitor the PTS forum this cycle and can't contribute on my own due to being on console. They could definitely do some of those things, so I'm not disagreeing with the general principle. I agree with most of the sentiment, although I would hope any rewards would be something console either had a chance to earn or wasn't super exclusive e.g. Twitch Crates. But, even if they did, some bugs would just slip through.

I think the message here was that nobody was stress testing combat because they feel their testing efforts are pointless. When you test patch after patch and report issues and those issues keep going live on launch then most people just stop testing altogether. I know if I log on to the PTS for any reason, it's to play with a new set or look at new furnishings. Anything else is pointless to me to report on. The current block bug is very situational so it was likely not even noticed. Without a new trial being in U36, nobody was really testing defenses. Some of us don't even notice, I certainly haven't - and my friend who normally tanks for our group mentioned it's only after roll dodging or something like that and he's been able to work around it knowing that.

It’s a lot more than that - there are multiple block bugs with different causes, per Gina, and that can be seen in game. Roll dodging removes block until you manually reapply, yes, but bashing and blockcasting together causes unwanted behavior as well. If a tank isn’t in the habit of bashing and blockcasting, they might not have noticed that particular one, but there are others as well.

There is additionally one affecting primarily dps - channeled skills now require a block press to cancel and another block to apply block, but you can’t hit them too close together or the second block press doesn’t apply. Good luck playing a templar with a channeled class spammable for both non-execute and execute. (Even if you run a non-channeled spammable until 40%, they’ve shoehorned us into using Radiant Oppression at that point or miss out on a plurality of our damage.) Those meteors will get you in KA and RG and such because you often don’t have time to block-cancel your spammable and then put up an actual block. You just have to hope you’re not in a channel when the meteors start coming down, or you’re at risk of blocking not working.

Last one I have noticed, weird bug I say block canceling should also block. Purpose of block canceling is to interrupt channel and cast an heal or something.

Block cancelling did apply block at the same time before U36, yeah. And Gina confirmed these block issues were not intentional, so I hope that means they’re fixing this one as well as roll dodge, bash/blockcast, etc.