Immobilizations in PVP

Mrtoobyy

Anyone else think they are totally unbalanced due to lag and broken mechanics? They reduced the snare time on jabs to 0.5 seconds but Frost wall still has three seconds immobilization.

With the current cooldowns I think immobilizations should be 0.5-1.0 second

OBJnoob

I could maybe agree if you'd come at the issue from a different perspective. The length an immobilize lasts is a very small issue to me because I have no intentions of being stuck in place for the duration.

Learn to manage your stamina for necessary dodge rolls and break frees. Have snare removal on your ability bar.

Vevvev

OBJnoob wrote: »

I could maybe agree if you'd come at the issue from a different perspective. The length an immobilize lasts is a very small issue to me because I have no intentions of being stuck in place for the duration.

Learn to manage your stamina for necessary dodge rolls and break frees. Have snare removal on your ability bar.

Same, if it came down to how often the immobilizations get applied that'd be one thing, but the duration of the immobilization itself after being applied is kinda moot when you do what you said with stamina management and snare removal. Immovable potions to also help greatly.

Necrotech_Master

snow treaders make immobilizations useless lol

YandereGirlfriend

Mrtoobyy wrote: »

Anyone else think they are totally unbalanced due to lag and broken mechanics? They reduced the snare time on jabs to 0.5 seconds but Frost wall still has three seconds immobilization.

With the current cooldowns I think immobilizations should be 0.5-1.0 second

If you're eating the entire duration of a CC ability then you're already dead.

As others mentioned, lengthening the duration of immunity after being Immobilized would be welcome.

Didgerion

Also keeping in mind that DKs have the richest immobilization toolkit and also a passive that increases the melee range by 2 meters, immobilization gives them a big advantage.

fred4

In my experience immobilizations are a non-issue until you run into a Bombard-spammer, or similar, and you yourself are on a mobility build. In a 1v1 opponents can't typically afford to play like this and keep it up constantly; only a mag DK might. It's organized groups with immobilization spammers that can be the real problem, but then again that's basically anti-nightblade defensive play. It can make life very difficult for nightblades, but it won't kill them in open world, because the experienced ones will know when to stay away or play very carefully.

As others have said, you dodge roll. You then actually have a 3 second immobilization cooldown. Yes, this does exist, unless ZOS have changed it again, which I believe they haven't.

I find Snow Treaders viable on stamsorc. The combination of Streak, Major Expedition from bow and Minor Expedition from Hurricane means the lack of sprinting doesn't really nerf your escape speed too much. However the problem with Snow Treaders is that they bug out from time to time. The game gets confused while turning the sprint suppression on and off from going in and out of combat. If you use the sprint button, as you instinctively might even when it doesn't work, the game may permanently lock out your skills and screw up your stam regen until you somehow recover, usually be mashing the sprint button. This is the reason why I usually do not recommend Snow Treaders, even though I like and use them on stamsorc.

Well, that basically covers the two mobility classes. If you're a nightblade and you heavily rely on mobility, as I do, immobilize spam from a group is one of the things that can kill you easily. Shadow Image is arguably the way to combat this. It's all Rock Paper Scissors. On other classes you care less. You don't want to incur the dodge roll penalty all the time. If you're tanky enough, you may sometimes choose to ignore immobilizes until they wear off.

fred4

I should add that some form of mobility skill is IMO par for the course in PvP for oh so many reasons. If you're not using Streak, Shadow Image, Mist Form, Race Against Time, a bow (for the Major Expedition passive) + let's say Shuffle, or a Race Against Time (RAT) equivalent class mobility skill (Bird of Prey, possibly DK wings), you're arguably doing something wrong. Didn't they just increase the RAT immunity to 4 seconds? It doesn't have to be a dodge roll. RAT plays well on any class, including - nay especially - stamblades, because you cut way down on your stamina consumption for dodge rolls that you'd otherwise use for the bow-derived Major Expedition or for clearing roots and snares.

Other reasons to use spead and root / snare removal skills are to prevent your enemy from LoSing or outranging your attacks and to better LoS (line of sight) yourself. That said, whenever your make a PvP build you have to consider whether you want to be a movement-focused build or a tanky, defensive build. Blocking is very strong, if you build for it. Self-healing can be very strong, if you build for it. Being a stamden, wearing Mara and/or Rallying Cry, building into blocking and block cost reduction as a DK, these are valid approaches that may make you just not care when you're rooted. As a DK you have that extra melee reach, which helps offensively. There is a whole philosophy of "let attackers come to me" rather than playing a mobility build or a ganker. A DK can be built that way and still catch people out with a Leap combo when they get low on health and try to back off. Bruiser classes in general play best in confined spaces, such as resouce towers, where the mobility classes can't get away as easily, and where roots arguably matter less as blocking, healing, and single dodge rolls to fall vertically to a different level become your tools of choice.

Vevvev

fred4 wrote: »

(Bird of Prey, possibly DK wings),.

DK wings don't provide mobility by default as it's defensive in function, but the Protective Plate morph gives Immunity to Snares and Immobilizations. Other morph throws a fireball back at people who hit you with projectiles.

Mrtoobyy

fred4 wrote: »

In my experience immobilizations are a non-issue until you run into a Bombard-spammer, or similar, and you yourself are on a mobility build. In a 1v1 opponents can't typically afford to play like this and keep it up constantly; only a mag DK might. It's organized groups with immobilization spammers that can be the real problem, but then again that's basically anti-nightblade defensive play. It can make life very difficult for nightblades, but it won't kill them in open world, because the experienced ones will know when to stay away or play very carefully.

As others have said, you dodge roll. You then actually have a 3 second immobilization cooldown. Yes, this does exist, unless ZOS have changed it again, which I believe they haven't.

I find Snow Treaders viable on stamsorc. The combination of Streak, Major Expedition from bow and Minor Expedition from Hurricane means the lack of sprinting doesn't really nerf your escape speed too much. However the problem with Snow Treaders is that they bug out from time to time. The game gets confused while turning the sprint suppression on and off from going in and out of combat. If you use the sprint button, as you instinctively might even when it doesn't work, the game may permanently lock out your skills and screw up your stam regen until you somehow recover, usually be mashing the sprint button. This is the reason why I usually do not recommend Snow Treaders, even though I like and use them on stamsorc.

Well, that basically covers the two mobility classes. If you're a nightblade and you heavily rely on mobility, as I do, immobilize spam from a group is one of the things that can kill you easily. Shadow Image is arguably the way to combat this. It's all Rock Paper Scissors. On other classes you care less. You don't want to incur the dodge roll penalty all the time. If you're tanky enough, you may sometimes choose to ignore immobilizes until they wear off.

And yet another reason why PVP is so darn bad some times, the bugs and poor performance. It's the same with CC immunity after you've broken free. No Todd Howard, it doesn't just work.

Jabbs_Giggity

Vevvev wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

I could maybe agree if you'd come at the issue from a different perspective. The length an immobilize lasts is a very small issue to me because I have no intentions of being stuck in place for the duration.

Learn to manage your stamina for necessary dodge rolls and break frees. Have snare removal on your ability bar.

Same, if it came down to how often the immobilizations get applied that'd be one thing, but the duration of the immobilization itself after being applied is kinda moot when you do what you said with stamina management and snare removal. Immovable potions to also help greatly.

Current state of PVP zones performance, no it doesn't. Immovable pots do nothing. Perma CC/Root/Snare/Immobilization from DK's is atrocious. Just got CC'd/rooted/Immobilized in Cyro 12 TIMES consecutively within 20 seconds with Pot active.

Cyro performance is the issue. Lack of CC immunity registering causing perma CC. I blame all the new Stam DK Vamp Misting unkillable burst DMG 1 button players...

OBJnoob

Lag is lag. You can't very well balance the game around glitches. Not worth talking about.

As far as the actual mechanics of immobilizations go-- no immovability pots don't help. But immovability potions (for hard ccs,) mixed with escapist poisons (for soft ccs,) and occasional use of snare removal and/or major expedition abilities will make you a hard toon to nail down.

blktauna

I just wish CC immunity weren't a lie and that break free actually functioned in cyrodil. I've gone in with immov pots running and still serial snared, ccd, rooted. Full stam is no help. When it decides to not work, its not going to work.

Jabbs_Giggity

OBJnoob wrote: »

Lag is lag. You can't very well balance the game around glitches. Not worth talking about.

As far as the actual mechanics of immobilizations go-- no immovability pots don't help. But immovability potions (for hard ccs,) mixed with escapist poisons (for soft ccs,) and occasional use of snare removal and/or major expedition abilities will make you a hard toon to nail down.

False. It is worth talking about because it can be balanced. It's called investing in better servers. At the very least, lease additional server capacity like they used to for every mid-year mayhem. Ever wonder why every mid-year mayhem mysteriously has ZERO issues with performance I'm Cyrodiil?? Yes, ZOS has the means to improve performance permanently, they just choose not to.

If server performance were fixed, over half the issues discussed on this forum would disappear. ZOS is notoriously disgusting for not spending an extra cent on PVP in general. PVP is less than 1% now of the ESO base. However, now that the servers are starting to bleed the PVE content, in addition to the poorly thought-out combat reworks recently, PVE'rs are looking elsewhere to fill their need to game.

On the next note, hard CC's should 100% work in conjunction with Immobilizations, as they have the same effect. Roots and Snares are soft CC's. Between performance issues with bad server registration to client performance and immensely bad coding CC/snare whatever you want to call it mechanics have been a plague on PVP since 2019.