What's with the massive uptake in wardens everywhere!!

Syiccal

I go in Bg and I'm not kidding when I say 60-70% of the players are some variation of warden-15-20% dk and rest other classes..
They don't even do imo great dmg but the constant rooting and cc is really annoying.

OBJnoob

Wardens became pretty popular/powerful after u35. If there's even more now than during u35 I guess they're just trying out their new ice staves. I know I am, and I'm on Xbox so don't even have the update yet. Just getting ready bwahaha

tsaescishoeshiner

They have an instant self-heal that's an AoE stun, and last week's patch gave them a lot of critical damage bonuses AND damage bonus buff for wielding a frost staff.

I've definitely been scheming to use these new buffs lol, of course everyone is ahead of me!

Unfortunately, it probably means a nerfs are incoming.

endgamesmug

I left my templar main in my dust awhile back and ive been really enjoying warden going hybrid damage/healing its great!

Syiccal

endgamesmug wrote: »

I left my templar main in my dust awhile back and ive been really enjoying warden going hybrid damage/healing its great!

Is it though, I see them mainly as support it's not oftern I see decent dmg . Tanky yes killing machines not really but I spend alot of time in bg

OBJnoob

My warden had trouble killing good players with good builds but in this meta I think that's kinda expected? Would not say they don't have decent damage, just lacking in a single target pressure sort of way.

Battlegrounds don't have a whole lot of 1v1 scenarios though. You can certainly run up on the opposing teams' 2v2 when they're all half health and delete them all on a warden. And that's arguably more important?

The warden kit is just pretty well-rounded. Its not too hard to play. So that's a big factor I'm sure.

the1andonlyskwex

Thanks to whoever thought giving huge damage buffs to a tanking weapon was a good idea. /S

ESO_Nightingale

OBJnoob wrote: »

Wardens became pretty popular/powerful after u35. If there's even more now than during u35 I guess they're just trying out their new ice staves. I know I am, and I'm on Xbox so don't even have the update yet. Just getting ready bwahaha

yeah, as the only class that recieved a lot of changes people are testing them out, and they also got stronger so you may see more in the future, but the numbers are likely bloated right now because this is pretty much the only new and interesting thing that got released this update that impacts pvp at all. it'll probably die down and go back to like 50% dks.

MEBengalsFan2001

Templar was S class for PVP and was replaced by the Warden with DK holding the other S tier class.

My friend says his stronger character is a Sorc for 1v1 but when it is 1v many Warden and DK are king at surviving and dealing out massive damage.

ESO_Nightingale

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Templar was S class for PVP and was replaced by the Warden with DK holding the other S tier class.

My friend says his stronger character is a Sorc for 1v1 but when it is 1v many Warden and DK are king at surviving and dealing out massive damage.

i've heard that stamblade is insane as well.

ESO_Nightingale

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

They have an instant self-heal that's an AoE stun, and last week's patch gave them a lot of critical damage bonuses AND damage bonus buff for wielding a frost staff.

I've definitely been scheming to use these new buffs lol, of course everyone is ahead of me!

Unfortunately, it probably means a nerfs are incoming.

i've seen a surprising lack of complaining about it so far. i don't think they're insane right now otherwise we'd have seen outrage already (they're definitely strong though). they're fresh as well, with the changes to make frost damage good.

katorga

Tanky meta, and they added Warden-specific damage buffs for a tanking weapon.

taugrim

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

They have an instant self-heal that's an AoE stun, and last week's patch gave them a lot of critical damage bonuses AND damage bonus buff for wielding a frost staff.

Most Wardens who are active on the PTS forum requested that ZoS not tie the passive damage bonus to Ice staff.

Go check out the forums.

It's limiting to weapon choices for Magden.

ESO_Nightingale

taugrim wrote: »

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

They have an instant self-heal that's an AoE stun, and last week's patch gave them a lot of critical damage bonuses AND damage bonus buff for wielding a frost staff.

Most Wardens who are active on the PTS forum requested that ZoS not tie the passive damage bonus to Ice staff.

Go check out the forums.

It's limiting to weapon choices for Magden.

Yeah we still don't want this. The old frost damage buff was great and didn't restrict power to 1 weapon. It should return to 10% increased frost damage and probably 5% all damage. If they really really really want to stay with a frost staff specific changes they could make specifically that frost damage bonus go even higher when using it.

Right now the piercing cold passive provides strong results for frost wardens pve and surely pvp too, but it's done in such an abrasive way to how the rest of the game is built. Some people a long time ago suggested it from what i remember, and these, as we see are the results of that type of idea. It's just proven to not be a healthy increase. The way i envisioned frost warden is for it to be a competitive build type with other more traditional warden builds, changes like the glacial presence one do a great job of helping it in ways where chosing to focus heavily on frost damage provides a great increase, while still providing a solid benefit for wardens that don't care too much about it as it will apply from winter's embrace skills at a naturally higher rate regardless. The piercing cold change on the otherhand is just a punishment to non frost staff wardens as it changed from +10% frost and magic damage to +2% damage done for non ice staff users which is mostly a nerf and especially a nerf to burst.

Recently efforts we have made have been against the piercing cold change, but I've seen people frustratingly claim that we wanted that. We don't. We're not trying to throw non frost staff wardens in the trash.

DrSlaughtr

Many players run to the flavor of the update. It happens all the time. DK had a lot longer run than most classes have gotten in the past.

Iriidius

DK and Templar were meta update 32,33 and 34. In update 34 however they had to share meta with stamsorc. Necro was also strong during this meta, especially harmony magcro. Warden and Necro were meta from before update 26 to including update 29 and since update 35 warden is meta again. DK meta was much shorter than warden meta and they were worst class before this for a while.

Luede

i think there is no outcry because warden has extremely good defense but not extremely good offense.

people only complain when they get stomped into the ground without a chance, which is not the case here.

Syiccal

Yea I admit I see lots of wardens that can be hard to put down bit they arnt really a threat u less caught out with low hp and they come in with a full fissure, ult etc

Dem_kitkats1

These patches are a Warden's bread and butter. You don't need top tier damage when everyone else's damage was nerfed across the board. And like others have said there are always meta classes with each new patch.

Syiccal

I just find with wardens they lack that extra dmg to finish players off which is needed right now before the heals from 20-100% happen

Aces-High-82

Syiccal wrote: »

I just find with wardens they lack that extra dmg to finish players off which is needed right now before the heals from 20-100% happen

Yeah, it's a real pity that you have to slot whirl/exe while wielding ~15kpen/7kdmg+.... comical, isn't it?

Syiccal

Low hp Heals such as coag are to strong when combined with undeath, I also play dk so I'm not slamming them.

Aces-High-82

God forbid to stun your target at the 8sec Fissure mark....

katorga

Simple answer, they buffed Polar Wind to almost three times the healing of Necro's Intensive mender (which got nerfed 50%).

Caribou77

I main a pvp Magden and use a staff exclusively. Just don’t enjoy spamming Whirling Blades, though really, WB or Dizzy/Executioner are warden’s only execute options.

Stamwardens are very competitive in BGs now, super tanky and dishing out high damage with deep fissure’s pen + 2handed wep skills. Magwardens are not (unless you play it like a gimped Stamwarden).

My fear is they will nerf warden abilities to tune down Stamwarden, and in the process push Magwarden so far down it will be unplayable.

Agree with others that the ice staff requirement is extremely restrictive and eliminates fun, diverse character building/gameplay.

TechMaybeHic

My fear is what's happened to Magsorc and templar is the goal and others are just waiting their turn. Harmony Necro is on the edge of oblivion as well

taugrim

Iriidius wrote: »

DK and Templar were meta update 32,33 and 34. In update 34 however they had to share meta with stamsorc. Necro was also strong during this meta, especially harmony magcro. Warden and Necro were meta from before update 26 to including update 29 and since update 35 warden is meta again. DK meta was much shorter than warden meta and they were worst class before this for a while.

DK is still the best PVP class. Best burst self-healing in the game, unblockable CC, and and IWIN ult.

Templar was OP until Living Dark was nerfed to no longer scale with offensive stats. Then ZoS subsequently over-nerfed Puncturing Strikes, Burning Light, and in U36 Backlash. I feel bad for Templar mains, all the nerfs together is too much.

Warden is top 2 in PVP now but DK is still king.

Lughlongarm

Based on what I see on youtube/twich, , DKs seems very popular, Magden(front bar Ice staff) not that popular while Stamdens which arguably got small nerfs compared to last patch(2h/DW front bar) are quite common.

In terms of builds, most of meta builds you could expect and it seems most players prefer to have 2 piece Balorgh+ 1 Trainee instead of the master staff front bar. Probably one of the reasons players stick with the old good Stamden builds.

MEBengalsFan2001

Why do games end up with a Flavor of the Month class, ability, gear, etc...

When a game developer does not have a set baseline and multipliers or reduces to handle how abilities or gear should impact damage, CC effect, etc... the game is like ESO and we all know how broken it is.

Games where the devs set a baseline and follow it tend to have less issues and are able to resolve those issues quicker.

Older MMOs tend to follow a similar path as ESO and that is due to turnover within the organization. The original game designers/developers are probably no longer with the company and whatever baseline was set is now gone but their original code is still buried there somewhere and as new code is added or old code modify it is a guessing game on how it will impact the overall flow of the game.

I believe with the PVP overhaul we may see some abilities, gear sets and other things change and it will probably make another flavor of the month class or gear set, etc...

I for one don't like chasing the current flavor, I like specific classes and will continue to use them even if they are inferior because those are the classes I enjoy most.

The Uninvited

And we tried to War(de)n them!

OBJnoob

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Why do games end up with a Flavor of the Month class, ability, gear, etc...

When a game developer does not have a set baseline and multipliers or reduces to handle how abilities or gear should impact damage, CC effect, etc... the game is like ESO and we all know how broken it is.

Games where the devs set a baseline and follow it tend to have less issues and are able to resolve those issues quicker.

Older MMOs tend to follow a similar path as ESO and that is due to turnover within the organization. The original game designers/developers are probably no longer with the company and whatever baseline was set is now gone but their original code is still buried there somewhere and as new code is added or old code modify it is a guessing game on how it will impact the overall flow of the game.

I believe with the PVP overhaul we may see some abilities, gear sets and other things change and it will probably make another flavor of the month class or gear set, etc...

I for one don't like chasing the current flavor, I like specific classes and will continue to use them even if they are inferior because those are the classes I enjoy most.

I kinda disagree with you. Which... I wouldn't presume to tell you how to feel. If you don't like it then you don't like it-- no arguing with that.

But if ESO is one way, and as you say older mmorpgs are the same as ESO... Then maybe we should at least consider it a decent way to be. Call of Duty for example-- while it will have some guns balanced from time to time-- doesn't really see the big swings in flavors of the month as you say. And ESO does.

But could this be simply because a new CoD comes out every year and THAT is their chance to try something drastically new? Whereas ESO is just ESO and there arguably won't be another-- let alone a new one every year.

So in order to maintain their players and the sense of character building and uniqueness they have to shake it up over and over again.

I can't speak for you but for me I very much doubt I'd still be playing this game 5 years later if the first DK I ever made and optimized was still using the same gear and abilities. Or the same night blade, or warden, blahblah.

I mean what would there be to do?

BUT. Not to derail the thread... That's why there are a lot of wardens. Because as someone else said its "fresh." Not everyone goes with the flavor of the month because its the best. Some just want to have fun and try something new.

Not to hurt anyone's feelings or be overly personal... But if I may use templar as an example... I just can't personally sympathize with people who've played templars exclusively for 6 years straight and feel like their game is ruined because they do less DPS now. For the love of god just play a night blade.