U36 Magden BG Build

OBJnoob

https://gameclips.io/OBJ noob/5b714456-8c64-4465-a477-a2a3182bffe2/embed

Theres a deathmatch clip. If your eye is quick you can see that I'm 7-2 when I die, and the game finishes with me 14-2. Probably only a middle mmr game but possibly on the higher side because I knew one of the players on my team (and he's as good as me or better,) and you can see several enemy DKs running around looking very stout.

I'm by no means a great player but perhaps this video can be an example of how an experienced player with an average build can do very well with good timing and positioning.

Caribou77

This great! Thanks for sharing your build and posting your clip. It looks like you’re doing a really good job of utilizing Hrothgar’s with your style/rotation. Also looks like your’re effective with arterial burst, which I haven’t tried due to stupid personal role play aesthetics ☺️— I’m just not a clawing warden. I stick with the staff which can be very limiting, especially with how strong 2h off balance/dizzy can be on warden.

I wouldn’t knock your build at all. I still go back and forth on using the masters ice staff— it only procs for 4 seconds and pretty much takes the place of a mythic or monster set, and I often worry about its up time vs other options. I think it’s solid if you spam frost reach alot, but I don’t because it gets dodged frequently, and front bar space is precious. I actually think arterial or any skill that isn’t a projectile makes for a stronger spammable in pvp, where desync n other factors make ranged skills iffy.

Again, thanks for sharing the clip as well as your thoughtful experience. I’m still feeling pretty novice about using frost/piercing cold effectively on my Magden.

I played bgs against a Magden last night who was virtually unkillable. Kept spamming arctic blast for big heals and seemingly never running out of mana. I can never get my arctic blast above 11-12k, so 6k w/battle spirit. Also, she/he was able to dish out strong damage.

Kind of off topic, but are you guys getting hit with 20k toxic barrage followed by scavenging maw that is not displaying its animation warning? I’ve got ~38k resistance, and block with an ice staff, but a few guys are maybe just excellent at timing so that I’m in the middle of a sweaty brawl and they fire tb at my back… from a safe distance…

OBJnoob

Thanks @Caribou77 yeah every time I think about replacing Hrothgar's I end up going back to it becaus of how well it synergizes with my playstyle. I ran like 6 bgs in a row today against some stiff competition and was doing very well.

I have to say I haven't encountered a lot of nightblades that worry me in the bgs I play, but yes the scavenging demise sometimes is heard but not seen. I'm not getting hit with toxic barrages though-- just incaps if memory serves.

I find... Well, here's what I see as I get closer to the top of the ladder:

There's more sorcs than I thought there'd be. One very good healer I know by name but mostly I mean dps. They aren't bad but they aren't good and provided with a decent team they WILL stand back there and steal kills until somebody seeks them out.

Nbs... Meh, I dunno, same as sorcs. Mostly not a threat tbh... I think the 'good' nbs are in cyrodiil instead.

Wardens? Probably the most populous. Dangerous but avoidable. Hard to kill. 50% I seem to have an edge against, 35% feel very similar to myself, 15% somehow a tier above.

Dks are Dks. Similar to wardens in number and toughness. Run from them when they turn green.

Templars? I dunno, not many, not very good, poor templars. Their damage isn't impressive but maybe I only feel that way cuz I'm on a warden.

Necromancers are low key the unsung heroes. There aren't many... But you want them on your team. If it's a deathmatch or a flag game you reeeally want them on your team. Being caught low rss in a Necro ulti/bomb is probably the number one way I die.

Miracle19

Caribou77 wrote: »

This great! Thanks for sharing your build and posting your clip. It looks like you’re doing a really good job of utilizing Hrothgar’s with your style/rotation. Also looks like your’re effective with arterial burst, which I haven’t tried due to stupid personal role play aesthetics ☺️— I’m just not a clawing warden. I stick with the staff which can be very limiting, especially with how strong 2h off balance/dizzy can be on warden.

I wouldn’t knock your build at all. I still go back and forth on using the masters ice staff— it only procs for 4 seconds and pretty much takes the place of a mythic or monster set, and I often worry about its up time vs other options. I think it’s solid if you spam frost reach alot, but I don’t because it gets dodged frequently, and front bar space is precious. I actually think arterial or any skill that isn’t a projectile makes for a stronger spammable in pvp, where desync n other factors make ranged skills iffy.

Again, thanks for sharing the clip as well as your thoughtful experience. I’m still feeling pretty novice about using frost/piercing cold effectively on my Magden.

I played bgs against a Magden last night who was virtually unkillable. Kept spamming arctic blast for big heals and seemingly never running out of mana. I can never get my arctic blast above 11-12k, so 6k w/battle spirit. Also, she/he was able to dish out strong damage.

Kind of off topic, but are you guys getting hit with 20k toxic barrage followed by scavenging maw that is not displaying its animation warning? I’ve got ~38k resistance, and block with an ice staff, but a few guys are maybe just excellent at timing so that I’m in the middle of a sweaty brawl and they fire tb at my back… from a safe distance…

Probably staying alive because of polar winds with major mending which crits for 13k +, pro tip, toxic barrage does 0 damage if you use crystal slab / shimmering slab

OBJnoob

I keep trying to find a way to fit shimmering/crystallized on my bar but it's hard. Polar wind I'm not so worried about, though I know it's a fat heal.

Wardens have good class skills that normally serve more than 1 purpose. Which is great, obviously, but at the same time it makes it hard to have any "flex" spots. Don't feel like I can give up anything!

taugrim

OBJnoob wrote: »

I keep trying to find a way to fit shimmering/crystallized on my bar but it's hard. Polar wind I'm not so worried about, though I know it's a fat heal.

Only healers should slot Polar Wind.

Arctic Blast is too useful to pass up as a DPS. It's CC, heal, and PBAOE DoT all rolled into one. Even if you play your Magden as RDPS (and IMO because of Deep Fissure Magden is best played as a skirmisher / mid-range DPS), AB is such a good tool.

gariondavey

taugrim wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

I keep trying to find a way to fit shimmering/crystallized on my bar but it's hard. Polar wind I'm not so worried about, though I know it's a fat heal.

Only healers should slot Polar Wind.

Arctic Blast is too useful to pass up as a DPS. It's CC, heal, and PBAOE DoT all rolled into one. Even if you play your Magden as RDPS (and IMO because of Deep Fissure Magden is best played as a skirmisher / mid-range DPS), AB is such a good tool.

This is absolutely misinformation. Polar wind is bonkers.

OBJnoob

People disagree about stuff sometimes, I don't think what he said is misinformation. As a dps pvp warden myself I also find that arctic blast is too useful to give up. Really helps those beetles hit.

Polar wind reaches out and heals another... Which is another fine reason to characterize it as the healers morph.

Ultimately, even though I die sometimes, I feel as though my magden has enough heals without polar wind.

gariondavey

He said only healers should slot polar wind.
The best wardens use polar wind over arctic blast.

OBJnoob

I dunno man if wardens weren't so survivable I'd see your point.

In premade high mmr deathmatches or Xing in cyrodiil I can see the pressure mounting to a point where you need that huge heal and I can see it being the way to go or even the only way to survive.

In solo bgs (even high mmr,) I find that there just arent enough people coordinating pressure on you at any one time to warrant giving up extra damage for extra healing. And for dueling I feel the same way.

So... These "best wardens" you refer to... I dunno, I suspect they're out there kiting and killing 15 people at a time in cyrodiil. Or part of a premade bg comp group that can use his extra healing and provide him with AoE stuns to accompany their team attack.

I suspect if they were playing like I was playing they'd agree with me. If they entered a dueling tournament, for example, they'd probably choose more damage instead of more healing. Because once the requirement to survive is already met then all you need is damage.

gariondavey

One of them already showed up in this thread. He, and other players in his guild, play 40k hp wardens.
A warden with the proper build using polar wind will do more damage, healing, kills and assists with fewer deaths than one using arctic blast.
That's just plain and simple fact.

OBJnoob

Well. That's certainly food for thought. I'm not exactly sure what to say to that.

I just don't think it'd work for my build. It'd leave me without a stun because my ultimate is the frost destro ulti. I suppose I could use dawnbreaker instead but that just kinda makes me want to dual wield instead. I already have a stamwarden.

Question: what's better at the moment? Frost staff warden or spin to win warden?

OBJnoob

Okay, good talk. I'm at work now so I'll be able to mull it over until tonight when I play lol. I appreciate the advice @Dekrypted @gariondavey and I dunno @Miracle19.

That's what's good about the forums-- you might think you're doing it right because maybe everyone in your mmr or on your platform is doing it one way. Or maybe you're just doing so well you don't experiment.

Out of curiosity, if you guys will entertain me a little further, what do your skill bars look like with polar wind?

gariondavey

Frost bar
Flex (wall of elements), force pulse, crystal slab, deep fissure, wings (minor berserk morph), northern storm

Resto bar
Leeching vines, 60 second lotus (crit), polar wind, blue netch, armor buff (minor protection morph), resto ult/healing springs

Edit:
My warden, solo buffed, has around 45-50 percent crit, just a bit over 40k hp, 5k+ spell damage, good sustain. I've had 18k heals with polar wind in bgs. That's insane. Just order's wrath, rally cry, and then you can pick for monster set/arena weapon/mythic + trainee.

Edit: miracle and dekrypted are 2 of the most skilled players I know. They are also very accomplished in bgs (including tournaments), duels, and theorycrafting. They play at the highest level of pvp that you can in this game (acknowledgement that this game isn't competitive in a professional sense).

Syrusthevirus187

Ew wardens

taugrim

Dekrypted wrote: »

taugrim wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

I keep trying to find a way to fit shimmering/crystallized on my bar but it's hard. Polar wind I'm not so worried about, though I know it's a fat heal.

Only healers should slot Polar Wind.

Arctic Blast is too useful to pass up as a DPS. It's CC, heal, and PBAOE DoT all rolled into one. Even if you play your Magden as RDPS (and IMO because of Deep Fissure Magden is best played as a skirmisher / mid-range DPS), AB is such a good tool.

As a day 1 warden (Stamden and Magden), saying "Only healers should slot Polar Wind" is simply not correct. Both do have their uses especially with the offensive scaling added to arctic, but If you're in a group setting, the amount of healing polar provides still can allow for ANY dps warden to use polar over arctic and have alot of success..

Understood and agreed on the above.

Also, I have slotted and used Polar Wind in the past, well before U35. It used to be one of the better multi-healing tools for Stamden, pre-hybridization, since it didn't scale off Magicka.

Hybridization and then the U35 changes to Arctic Blast have really opened up options.

taugrim

gariondavey wrote: »

Frost bar
Flex (wall of elements), force pulse, crystal slab, deep fissure, wings (minor berserk morph), northern storm

Resto bar
Leeching vines, 60 second lotus (crit), polar wind, blue netch, armor buff (minor protection morph), resto ult/healing springs

The only meaningful surprises here:
* Slab over Shield: I've ran Slab more recently instead of Shimmering Shield, given the reflective stun
* Lotus: I've run this as well and love the long duration / backbarrability. However I thought others would advocate for other Crit tools (e.g. Inner Light).

Kartalin

taugrim wrote: »

The only meaningful surprises here:
* Slab over Shield: I've ran Slab more recently instead of Shimmering Shield, given the reflective stun
* Lotus: I've run this as well and love the long duration / backbarrability. However I thought others would advocate for other Crit tools (e.g. Inner Light).

Since Arctic Blast stuns I don't feel that Slab is as necessary, I guess it's really an either/or situation at this point, especially if you're opting for Polar Wind. In my experience the reflection is easy to dodge though. Regardless, I usually don't have space for either Slab or Shimmering unless there is a dedicated healer in group.

I prefer Lotus as well since my front bar is already crowded. Would rather run BoP/Lotus than Camo Hunter/RAT based on passives from those lines.

Caribou77

I tried something close to Garion’s build here in a couple bgs today and was practically unkillable. The one time I died in 3 matches was absolutely my own fault for going after a seasoned DK and Stamsorc working together.

The key difference from previous magden pvp builds I’ve used was high crit high health and polar wind. Was getting crit heals for 18k regularly (9k w battlespirit) and also leeching vines critting regularly too.

However, my kill rate was even more mediocre than usual. 😁 I’m thinking the added crit chance and added crit heal/dmg (orders wrath, lotus b, slimecraw shoulder…) along with much higher health (38k), while super effective at boosting healing (probably doubled it, seriously), did not help against pvpers with high impen and crit resistance, so I was hitting for a lot less damage than when I typically build for pen and spell damage. So.

Going to try and put this info to use in some more hair-brained off-meta theorycrafting of my own.

Thanks again for the shared experience here! I really appreciate it.

I will confess keeping 5 buffs going took some adjustment. I may be too lazy to ever reach meta magden level. I kinda wanted to tinker with an oakensoul build after running all those buffs/hots, but that’s just shooting yourself in the foot.

OBJnoob

I've never been a crafter in this game but I have a fair amount of traits researched for transmutation purposes... Was surprised to find out orders wrath only requires 3 traits. I made myself a set and also took it for a spin...

Played 1 deathmatch, went 9-2 and one of my deaths was me falling off the map lol.

I won't lie I remorphed to polar wind and immediately remorphed back to arctic blast without even trying it. Here's why: since I only have orders wrath frontbarred I'm completely losing out on the 8% critical healing if I don't run a heal on my frontbar. I can't justify (to myself,) having a heal on the front bar without the added utility. Nor is it "optimal" to use polar wind on the bar that has less HP (my bb is shield.)

Anyway... I got nervous, as I always do when I'm changing something that has worked well for me, and I changed some stuff around a bit to try and be more survivable. I swapped balorghs out and used bloodspawn again. My FB became shimmering shield, warden wings (minor berserk,) arctic blast, shalks, arterial burst, Northern Storm.

I was pumping out northern storms left and right and this helped me survive, but I did feel a certain lack of killing power. In the end though I did get a decent number of kills, and my damage was almost 2 million which is higher than usual for me (the match didn't go the distance... My team came in 2nd place,) and I attribute that to my increased survivability and being able to "stand in the pocket" for longer.

Tonight I'm probably going to put destro ulti on my front bar again and keep Northern Storm on bb. Orders wrath is nice... No complaints. The ulti gen is fantastic. I do kinda miss Hrothgar's and my AoE immobilizes but honestly it didn't... Well, it didn't seem to matter that much.

@Caribou77 sorry my posts are always so long and boring but I do have one more thing to say and it's to you. I'm confident that I've made it to the high mmr bracket but depending on the time of day I feel like my bgs are only half and half. So my question to you is, if you don't mind telling me, what time zone are you in and when do you play? I'd like to meet up in game and discuss some things or maybe duel a bit?

Caribou77

Hey OBJnoob -- that sounds cool My ESO schedule is pretty erratic as I've got a 15-month old son and a packed work week. The times I'm most consistently on are weekends (Fri, Sat, Sun) after 11 or 12 at night. I'm not sure what level my MMR is; like you, it seems the skill level ranges quite a bit depending on time of day/week. Some matches I do really well (did a 13-0-22 deathmatch late last night -- that's very rare on my Magden; had a good healer on my team and sometimes I get thoroughly stomped by a team of zerging DKs and Stamblades, and feel like I need to completely revise my build, but I digress... My Magden main is "Torchbuq" on xbox NA. I think I'm somewhere in the middle of the leaderboards for bgs this week. What's your main toon's name? It would be hilarious if you're some guy who's been murdering me the past couple of months Hopefully we can meet in game and do some duels/bgs. If you're okay sharing your main character name, let me know, and I'll look for you next time I'm on.

OBJnoob

@Caribou77 that's funny I also have a 15 month old son (getting close to 16 now actually,) and it's my first. It's simultaneously a lot of work and... Not as bad as I thought it'd be. Pretty easy to sit down and play when he gives me that smile.

But anyway... So my magdens name is Frigid Reign. Me personally though I have my settings where I see player's gamertag not character name. With that in mind you might have better luck just searching for OBJ noob. I have no idea where I might be on the leaderboards I only play 2 or 3 bgs a day. I duel in grahtwood and play in blackreach a bit as well.

I normally get on around 10pm EST and play til midnight, but I do stay up later on the weekends so maybe I'll get lucky and see you this weekend.

I doubt I'm anyone that's ever beat your butt... I consider myself a "very good" pvper but I routinely meet people better than me. I am not one of the elites, which you will soon find out!

Anyway thanks for being open to the idea.

Caribou77

It's been a minute since I checked this thread. Here's a brief update on my U36 MagDen build. I suspect it's fairly unique; however, given the current tanky meta, not much seems to change the outcomes of battlegrounds I'm in. Pretty sure I'm in high mmr these days, as no one is getting any kills, and it's becoming very boring.

I'll preface this by sharing that I've always enjoyed building for stats rather than procs, which has been a handicap in certain metas, but overall has led to helping develop my skills, I think. I don't feel any satisfaction when my armor gets kills.

Here's what I hit upon: 5 aetherial ascenion, 1 valkyn shoulder, 1 perfected master's ice staff, 1 potentates staff (backbar), 1 markyn ring, 3 langour of peryite. 1 heavy, 3 medium, 3 light.

Front bar: lingering flare, bird of prey, frost clench, deep fissure, crushing shock, northern storm
Back bar: blue betty, ice fortress, healing ward, blessing of restoration, lingering flare, life giver

I continue to do okay: maybe 2nd position on the winning team, or first position on the losing team. When I get with a good healer I sometimes have a very good game and actually break 10 kills. Not too often. Most of the scores in the bg's I'm in these days are like 2-2-2, with mild variations. 0-0-0 is not uncommon, and they seem to be quite competent players. Tanky meta, I guess. Boring.

I've tried altering the build toward more damage to get more kills, but everytime I do I'm instantly zerged to death by a pack of DKs and NBs. I have to build really tanky and be extremely cautious not to ever be isolated. The little zerg packs in bg's just get tighter and tighter.

Anyhow, if any of you veteran players have some tips for improving my build, I would really enjoy hearing your perspectives.

P.S. OBJnoob -- I really enjoyed our foray into premade BGs the other week. Hope to see you again sometime in game. Maybe give Cyro a try next time. Hope you are well.

OBJnoob

@Caribou77 Oh yea brother that was fun for me too. I've seen you online a few times since then... I didn't message you cuz I didn't want to be, uh, clingy? Lol so there's my teenage confession. My adult confession is my wife and I went to my company Christmas party last night (Friday,) and i hardly ever drink so when we got home I was like "heeeeey babyyyy, wanna go to sleep??" Lol.

But I'll be on tonight so... Prepare to be clung to. We never did get to duel our wardens because you were on your sorc. And if you still don't feel comfortable with your CP then like you said we can just go to cyrodiil instead. I played ravenwatch for yeeaars it's no big deal at all.

But on to the important part of your post... So your new build kinda blows my mind. I'm not surprised you feel the need to be tanky but your ability bars are interesting to me. Basically curious why you've elected for resto heals instead of class heals.

taugrim

Caribou77 wrote: »

Back bar: blue betty, ice fortress, healing ward, blessing of restoration, lingering flare, life giver

I strongly recommend using at least 1 Green Balance ability. Nature's Gift and Accelerated Growth only proc off GB abilities.

I only run class heals on Warden, the kit is good.

Caribou77

Yeah, I get that the resto heals don’t synergize with warden like green and winter options, but for whatever reason I was getting hammered by tight zergs for a bit (where did my team go? oh, they cloaked n left

So even though resto skills are less efficient, healing ward paired with blessing of restoration seems to do a better job of keeping me alive through an onslaught to where I can escape and reset. I think the psychology of this meta leads people to move on to easier targets if you demonstrate that you’re not going to die for awhile.

I did tweak the build to one that’s more fun and stronger offense: valkyn helm, magma inc shoulder, 2 trainee, masters ice staff, oakensoul ring, 5 aetherial (medium). Fbar is now flare, bird of prey, arctic blast, deep fissure, frost reach, and ice comet.

Still getting vry high assists (~20s), but the kills are going up (due to comet and frost reach hitting & critting more). Main strengths are high recovery ~17k mrec, ~950 srec, and higher crit chance balanced with spell damage (30%/ 5.5k). Also good mobility. Main weakness is arctic blast is my only heal.

Really enjoying it, as ice comet is as close as I’ve come to an effective “execute” on magden (still have to line it up w/deep fissure n spam frost reach) and with oakensoul it’s frequently up.

OBJ- thanks for sharing the awesome clip of the BG! It made me laugh to see you defending my flank against 2-3 opponents while my very slow Magsorc ran the relic home. Made me realize how much of a sitting duck Magsorc is once you grab a relic or chaosball and streak is unavailable… Magsorc without streak is absurd.

Thanks again for the insightful advice here. I have a question for Garion D, if you see this: wondering if your meta Magden friends do battlegrounds and what their typical scores are like. Looking for some broad perspective.

OBJnoob

I have ice comet on my warden but for some reason I never use it. Would you recommend it? The way I'm running my magden right now, with bloodspawn and shimmering shield, I've even toyed with the idea of using shooting star instead.

I definitely agree about the psychology of leaving someone alone if they seem too tanky. That's pretty much how I stay alive. Its very hard on my resources to stay alive when being focused (solo que problems,) by more than 2 good players. I can do it, some fancy footwork, maybe drop off a ledge. By the time I get away and reset I was normally super low on rss... Thank goodness they stopped when they did type situation.

Miracle19

OBJnoob wrote: »

Okay, good talk. I'm at work now so I'll be able to mull it over until tonight when I play lol. I appreciate the advice @Dekrypted @gariondavey and I dunno @Miracle19.

That's what's good about the forums-- you might think you're doing it right because maybe everyone in your mmr or on your platform is doing it one way. Or maybe you're just doing so well you don't experiment.

Out of curiosity, if you guys will entertain me a little further, what do your skill bars look like with polar wind?

FB - Crystal slab , BoP, splitting soul trap(I use oblivions foe) , shalks , force pulse. - Permafrost

BB - polar, lotus , fortress, Betty, leeching vines - trees healing ult/resto ult

Miracle19

Caribou77 wrote: »

Yeah, I get that the resto heals don’t synergize with warden like green and winter options, but for whatever reason I was getting hammered by tight zergs for a bit (where did my team go? oh, they cloaked n left

So even though resto skills are less efficient, healing ward paired with blessing of restoration seems to do a better job of keeping me alive through an onslaught to where I can escape and reset. I think the psychology of this meta leads people to move on to easier targets if you demonstrate that you’re not going to die for awhile.

I did tweak the build to one that’s more fun and stronger offense: valkyn helm, magma inc shoulder, 2 trainee, masters ice staff, oakensoul ring, 5 aetherial (medium). Fbar is now flare, bird of prey, arctic blast, deep fissure, frost reach, and ice comet.

Still getting vry high assists (~20s), but the kills are going up (due to comet and frost reach hitting & critting more). Main strengths are high recovery ~17k mrec, ~950 srec, and higher crit chance balanced with spell damage (30%/ 5.5k). Also good mobility. Main weakness is arctic blast is my only heal.

Really enjoying it, as ice comet is as close as I’ve come to an effective “execute” on magden (still have to line it up w/deep fissure n spam frost reach) and with oakensoul it’s frequently up.

OBJ- thanks for sharing the awesome clip of the BG! It made me laugh to see you defending my flank against 2-3 opponents while my very slow Magsorc ran the relic home. Made me realize how much of a sitting duck Magsorc is once you grab a relic or chaosball and streak is unavailable… Magsorc without streak is absurd.

Thanks again for the insightful advice here. I have a question for Garion D, if you see this: wondering if your meta Magden friends do battlegrounds and what their typical scores are like. Looking for some broad perspective.

scoreboard of a 43k hp warden

Miracle19

or even better, the average solo que bg