Roots in pvp

Mrtoobyy

Am I the only one thinking that roots should have a longer immunity once you dodge rolled? Or make rooted targets have free dodge roll costs. I am talking about pvp cause now it's really stupid the way it is people spamming frost wall making it root you every 2 second.

I mean in the end it's stronger than hard CC stuns taking everything into account. But this may be another thread treated like general whining I guess and fall on deaf ears...
Sometimes I wonder why people still try to provide feedback/ideas to this game, me included.

blktauna

I would just like for stated CC immunity to actually work. That would be a big plus.

Mrtoobyy

blktauna wrote: »

I would just like for stated CC immunity to actually work. That would be a big plus.

True, maybe that is where the problem lies. Not faulty mechanics but a faulty old server.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

PVP roots should definitely have a longer immunity. You will get no argument from me.

UnabashedlyHonest

ZOS gave up on balancing and fixing bugs in PvP years ago. It is what it is.

Mrtoobyy

UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »

ZOS gave up on balancing and fixing bugs in PvP years ago. It is what it is.

It's so sad... So many people have left the game due to this, and recruiting new people to PVP won't happen when the game is what it is.

MEBengalsFan2001

I have stated it more than once that this game CC mechanics needs an overhaul. Hopefully 2023 this can be one of the items the dev looks into.

Not just for PVP but for PVE as well. As someone that played a tank getting rooted/stunned etc really burned through some needed stamina.

Mrtoobyy

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

I have stated it more than once that this game CC mechanics needs an overhaul. Hopefully 2023 this can be one of the items the dev looks into.

Not just for PVP but for PVE as well. As someone that played a tank getting rooted/stunned etc really burned through some needed stamina.

Yeah I agree. Also it ruins the gameplay IMO to have such a short CC immunity. Some of the animations are crap and constantly being stunned, break free not working fully just adds to the bad animations leaving the game looking really bad fluid wise.

Dr_Con

wait you don't like breaking free and then rolling after a DK uses fossilize on you?

Mrtoobyy

Dr_Con wrote: »

wait you don't like breaking free and then rolling after a DK uses fossilize on you?

Haha oh yeah my bad... Also being interrupted from the DK leap area mechanic.

ZOS_GregoryV

Greetings all,

We have decided to move this thread to a more appropriate category.

Regards,
-Greg-

AdamLAD

In PvP I get immobilised and rooted constantly. 100% should have a longer immunity. I forgotten the time you are immune, but it's current state needs addressing. Longer uptime needed. It's bad for all levels on PvP play

OBJnoob

I think immunity to soft cc is only like 4 seconds? Which... Well, I have mixed feelings honestly.

Part of me agrees. Part of me vehemently agrees.

The other part of me watches people kite like crazy and seem to be pressing race against time every 4 seconds because they seem obnoxiously immune to all CC for incredible amounts of time. Add CP and potions into the mix and it really seems like CCs aren't potent enough.

So, I'm not sure what the truth is. I've certainly been annoyed both ways. I look forward to following this discussion.

DrSlaughtr

what immunity? I get talons'ed back to back all the time.

Amottica

OBJnoob wrote: »

I think immunity to soft cc is only like 4 seconds? Which... Well, I have mixed feelings honestly.

Part of me agrees. Part of me vehemently agrees.

The other part of me watches people kite like crazy and seem to be pressing race against time every 4 seconds because they seem obnoxiously immune to all CC for incredible amounts of time. Add CP and potions into the mix and it really seems like CCs aren't potent enough.

So, I'm not sure what the truth is. I've certainly been annoyed both ways. I look forward to following this discussion.

Kiting is a defensive choice. Considering there are a lot of items in Cyrodiil specifically to allow breaking LOS, it is a legitimate tactic. Being able to keep someone from moving virtually permanently and especially keep them stunned for the short duration it takes to kill them makes PvP very boring.

OBJnoob

I'm not hating on kiting I'm suggesting there is counterplay to immobilizes and some people use them very well.

And the players I fight... The ones worth talking about anyway... They break free immediately. So I can't imagine what you're talking about. Killing bad players? Being a bad player?

All I really said was, from time to time, I feel both ways about this issue. Don't read too much into it please.

Dem_kitkats1

OBJnoob wrote: »

I think immunity to soft cc is only like 4 seconds? Which... Well, I have mixed feelings honestly.

Part of me agrees. Part of me vehemently agrees.

The other part of me watches people kite like crazy and seem to be pressing race against time every 4 seconds because they seem obnoxiously immune to all CC for incredible amounts of time. Add CP and potions into the mix and it really seems like CCs aren't potent enough.

So, I'm not sure what the truth is. I've certainly been annoyed both ways. I look forward to following this discussion.

Yeah I'm with you on that one. It's a slippery slope giving players immunity to every counter. I think, if anything, maybe roots and snares should cost significantly more so that they cannot be spammable.

Mrtoobyy

Dem_kitkats1 wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

I'm not hating on kiting I'm suggesting there is counterplay to immobilizes and some people use them very well.

And the players I fight... The ones worth talking about anyway... They break free immediately. So I can't imagine what you're talking about. Killing bad players? Being a bad player?

All I really said was, from time to time, I feel both ways about this issue. Don't read too much into it please.

Yeah I'm with you on that one. It's a slippery slope giving players immunity to every counter. I think, if anything, maybe roots and snares should cost significantly more so that they cannot be spammable.

That would be great. Treat them more like the Psijic order AOE stun. That one is really expensive but rewarding

OBJnoob

Dem_kitkats1 wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

I think immunity to soft cc is only like 4 seconds? Which... Well, I have mixed feelings honestly.

Part of me agrees. Part of me vehemently agrees.

The other part of me watches people kite like crazy and seem to be pressing race against time every 4 seconds because they seem obnoxiously immune to all CC for incredible amounts of time. Add CP and potions into the mix and it really seems like CCs aren't potent enough.

So, I'm not sure what the truth is. I've certainly been annoyed both ways. I look forward to following this discussion.

Yeah I'm with you on that one. It's a slippery slope giving players immunity to every counter. I think, if anything, maybe roots and snares should cost significantly more so that they cannot be spammable.

Yes exactly. A slippery slope having counterplay to everything.

I do think the cc system could be reworked but I doubt I'm the guy to offer any bright ideas. I don't want abilities to be on a cool down, that's for sure. It was great in WoW but WoW is WoW and ESO is ESO I like(d) them both for what they are.

I like your idea of making stuns cost more... But there are so many stuns applied to other damaging skills, such as ultimates, that I'm not sure that would be an easy solution either.

And if I may continue with my dichotomy about the issue... I'd want the immunities to be more expensive too.

As I alluded before-- I've been both the bombard streaking negate sorc and the guy chasing someone who just couldn't be stopped or slowed down. Both are equally annoying and it is as you say... Counterplays gone wild.

Both should be made more rare and more expensive. Its kinda gross that some things, RaT for example, are so necessary that eeeeverybody has it on their bar. Really forces the meta and the boring homogenization of classes.

I'd like to revert some of this equality to be honest and return to a more rock paper scissors game. Where some people can't stun. And some people can't break free.

Again, as I said, good players manage their resources so well stunning is hardly worthwhile at all unless you're kill-comboing someone. Its funny really because that was the first way to kill people I learned as a noon. And now, with the crazy self healing tank meta, its the only way to kill higher tier players as well. The only difference is how many times you have to try before it works. Feels bad really. I wish the game was more of a battle of attrition instead of a continuous chunk chunk chunk style.

Where, say, you could eat a 3 second stun but not necessarily die in those 3 seconds. To be disadvantaged in a longer term instead of instantly exploded.

OBJnoob

OBJnoob wrote: »

Dem_kitkats1 wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

I think immunity to soft cc is only like 4 seconds? Which... Well, I have mixed feelings honestly.

Part of me agrees. Part of me vehemently agrees.

The other part of me watches people kite like crazy and seem to be pressing race against time every 4 seconds because they seem obnoxiously immune to all CC for incredible amounts of time. Add CP and potions into the mix and it really seems like CCs aren't potent enough.

So, I'm not sure what the truth is. I've certainly been annoyed both ways. I look forward to following this discussion.

Yeah I'm with you on that one. It's a slippery slope giving players immunity to every counter. I think, if anything, maybe roots and snares should cost significantly more so that they cannot be spammable.

Yes exactly. A slippery slope having counterplay to everything.

I do think the cc system could be reworked but I doubt I'm the guy to offer any bright ideas. I don't want abilities to be on a cool down, that's for sure. It was great in WoW but WoW is WoW and ESO is ESO I like(d) them both for what they are.

I like your idea of making stuns cost more... But there are so many stuns applied to other damaging skills, such as ultimates, that I'm not sure that would be an easy solution either.

And if I may continue with my dichotomy about the issue... I'd want the immunities to be more expensive too.

As I alluded before-- I've been both the bombard streaking negate sorc and the guy chasing someone who just couldn't be stopped or slowed down. Both are equally annoying and it is as you say... Counterplays gone wild.

Both should be made more rare and more expensive. Its kinda gross that some things, RaT for example, are so necessary that eeeeverybody has it on their bar. Really forces the meta and the boring homogenization of classes.

I'd like to revert some of this equality to be honest and return to a more rock paper scissors game. Where some people can't stun. And some people can't break free.

Again, as I said, good players manage their resources so well stunning is hardly worthwhile at all unless you're kill-comboing someone. Its funny really because that was the first way to kill people I learned as a noob. And now, with the crazy self healing tank meta, its the only way to kill higher tier players as well. The only difference is how many times you have to try before it works. Feels bad really. I wish the game was more of a battle of attrition instead of a continuous chunk chunk chunk style.

Where, say, you could eat a 3 second stun but not necessarily die in those 3 seconds. To be disadvantaged in a longer term instead of instantly exploded.

Caribou77

ninjagank wrote: »

what immunity? I get talons'ed back to back all the time.

This is also my experience.

Also, due to poor server quality/lag, about half the time I get rooted or stunned I am unable to roll or break free regardless of plenty of stamina. My toon just sits there frozen for several seconds while I get slaughtered.

It can be demoralizing.

OBJnoob

Lag sucks and immunity sometimes doesn't seem to occur but thats kinda a different issue isn't it? Need better servers and glitches fixed.

The way the game works though, when it works, I just see a lot of people that can't be stopped or slowed down. What annoys me is how obligatory and bland it is to have to slot these tools because everything else is utter trash by comparison. No amount of healing or damage mitigation is equal to removing snares gaining major expedition and strafing around trees like a first person shooter.

So while I do absolutely agree that there is a problem with the necessity/effectiveness of roots and stuns I have to say the good players have reached a level of skill/exploitation where I now have the opposite complaint.

If you get talons'd back to back its either lag/glitch or your fault.

MEBengalsFan2001

OBJnoob wrote: »

Lag sucks and immunity sometimes doesn't seem to occur but thats kinda a different issue isn't it? Need better servers and glitches fixed.

The way the game works though, when it works, I just see a lot of people that can't be stopped or slowed down. What annoys me is how obligatory and bland it is to have to slot these tools because everything else is utter trash by comparison. No amount of healing or damage mitigation is equal to removing snares gaining major expedition and strafing around trees like a first person shooter.

So while I do absolutely agree that there is a problem with the necessity/effectiveness of roots and stuns I have to say the good players have reached a level of skill/exploitation where I now have the opposite complaint.

If you get talons'd back to back its either lag/glitch or your fault.

CP skill slippery doesn't work all the time.

Having full stamina yesterday I burn through 25K just trying to break free from talon. Hit break free and tried to move - nope, break free again and tried to move - nope, tried again and still didn't work. After I was out of stamina talon finally went away. Yeah break free is working as intended.

With slippery selected I got hit by a stun and it didn't break me free and when I went to break free the normal way it completely drained my stamina after one attempt.

Is that the game working as intended for its CC effect.

I hit a player with a root/immobilization and they broke free saw the animation than hit them with a stun and they broke free and I continue to pressure them with various abilities that cause root/immobilization but nothing worked. And it wasn't over a short time, it was a good 45-60 seconds. Eventually they just walk away and nothing was causing them to break free or stop them from moving etc...

By the way I only use immovable pots and those don't work for me all that great. It's about 50/50 if it will or won't work.

SkaraMinoc

I switched to Snow Treaders and haven't looked back. Best decision I've made in U35 and will carry over well into U36.

OBJnoob

@MEBengalsFan2001 I'm assuming you played correctly and just typed wrong but I do have to ask... You know breaking free isn't how you get out of immobilizes right? Talons is a soft cc not a hard cc. You need to roll dodge out of it or activate a skill that cleanses and grants immunity to snares and immobilizations.

Anyway assuming you know that the majority of your post is just talking about how poorly the game works. Which is your right to do-- but the exact thing my post (the one you quoted,) is trying to separate from this conversation. I have nothing to say about that.

As far as the rest goes... I'm not clear if you're on my side or not. You say your opponents can't be slowed immobilized or stunned. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. That's cuz they know how to play.

If you KNOW you're doing "it" right but it just doesn't work for you... Then stop playing. Honestly. How could that be fun for you?

If you may not be doing it right, as honestly your post indicates, then go find some good advice.

MEBengalsFan2001

OBJnoob wrote: »

@MEBengalsFan2001 I'm assuming you played correctly and just typed wrong but I do have to ask... You know breaking free isn't how you get out of immobilizes right? Talons is a soft cc not a hard cc. You need to roll dodge out of it or activate a skill that cleanses and grants immunity to snares and immobilizations.

Anyway assuming you know that the majority of your post is just talking about how poorly the game works. Which is your right to do-- but the exact thing my post (the one you quoted,) is trying to separate from this conversation. I have nothing to say about that.

As far as the rest goes... I'm not clear if you're on my side or not. You say your opponents can't be slowed immobilized or stunned. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. That's cuz they know how to play.

If you KNOW you're doing "it" right but it just doesn't work for you... Then stop playing. Honestly. How could that be fun for you?

If you may not be doing it right, as honestly your post indicates, then go find some good advice.

For a game that is going on 7+ years for consoles and 8+ years for PC you would expect the game to actually function as intended.

1) After a stun and hitting break free 1x my character does a break dance trying to break free from the stun draining my stamina.

2) I'm 1v1 against someone that immobilize me and my skill to cleanse me is greyed out and I can't use it but all my other skills can be used.

3) I pop a potion of immovable and within 2 seconds I'm stunned.

I know how to play and I know when to use what skills. It is annoying going against players who simply can't be stunned or rooted/immobilized (which I know there are boots and skills to cleanse these).

As for the game being fun, there are other parts to the game one can enjoy that isn't PVP. I do like those as well. I also only PVP with my guild and when 6+ other players are on, unless there is a PVP event.

I mean the devs know something isn't working with PVP, it is why they are doing what they are doing to fix it.

OBJnoob

Okay understood. I don't want you to quit brother I just honestly wonder sometimes how people can become so dissatisfied but continue to play. Myself I play in ravenwatch, battlegrounds, and duel in cities. Lag is almost never an issue for me but trust me I do remember "that one time" I tried to play in greyhost. And guess what I did? I quit greyhost.

Its important to differentiate between when the game isn't working right and when something truly seems amiss though. If we make immunity twice as long, but the game still doesn't recognize your immunity, then all you did was make the players for whom it does work even stronger and you have the same problem.

Also its important to know whether you're soft cc'd or hard cc'd and respond appropriately. Which you said nothing about... So... I'm going to assume you've been trying to break free of talons instead of roll dodging and are embarrassed.

blktauna

I work under the assumption CC immunity is a lie and that hasn't let me down yet.
I am constantly getting serial stunned, serial rooted, rooted by something that completely greys out my skill bar etc. I know who the culprits are, same group all the time, so now I just leave the area they are in and go elsewhere.

The lag is the worst issue and their total foobar of locations.

deleted221205-002626

well maybe theyre still using rush of agony NOT DCON like ive been saying.. it doesnt apply cc immunity and they can pull you in repeatedly forever into whatever they have laid down for you

blktauna

It's not a pull, its generally talons in series.

cuddles_with_wroble

while roots are annoying yes i will say they are a very effective way to shut down certain builds and playstyles and needed to counter ball group like team comps.

if your having issues with roots there are a few things i can recommend