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Community Built Suggestion for new Rewards Structure
Tornaad
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Goal:
Build a proposal for a new reward structure from community suggestions that ZoS would be willing to implement.
Conditions:
1. If ZoS is going to implement the proposed reward structure, then it must be something that would drive profits for them. IE more people subscribing to ESO plus, more people purchasing DLC, more people spending money from the crown store, bring in new players or bring old players back into the game, and/or some new form of revenue not currently implemented.
2. For the reward structure to work it must feel rewarding to players, thus it must actually be rewarding.
What this means is that if we expect them to implement this, then we would not want to take away a source of revenue from them like the crown crates.
Note:
As this is meant to be a community created, please avoid simply dismissing someone else’s idea. If someone proposes an idea that you do not like, then either propose changes to it, that you would like or propose an alternative to that idea. At a minimum, provide support for someone else’s idea that you like better. No post should simply be a dismissal of another person’s idea, that is not constructive and leads us nowhere.
As it is easier to expand on something that already exists than to completely recreate something, I am adding my own suggestion to this. However, it is just a suggestion and by the time we are done, could be completely thrown out and replaced with something much better. If that were to happen, I would be all the happier, just as long as we create something that is dynamic enough to engage players and that will help drive profits for ZoS (thus making them more willing to implement it).
As we create the proposed reward structure, I will update this post, thus that section will be labeled “Current Suggestion.”
Rules
1. No posts about simply how you do not like an idea. All posts must be constructive.
2. If you do not like an idea, that is fine, you must share a better or modified suggestion in your post as well.
And as this is only a start, I want to be clear, even if we end up scrapping my initial ideas entirely, I am just fine with that, as long as we build something that would leave the players feeling rewarded and that ZoS would actually be likely to spend time and money to implement.
As we do not want to get rid of the crown crates, (unless we can think of something else that would bring in as much revenue for them) I propose that we try to adjust how they work to allow for both more money to go towards ZoS and more benefit to go towards the player.
I propose they adjust how the crown crates work and specifically tie them to different DLC and/or chapters. Additionally, they could dramatically increase the potential rewards for completing achievements. Leave a few like we currently have, where the moment you unlock the achievement you get a reward, but add something extra to each achievement, that can be unlocked with additional attempts at the achievement. The first completion of the achievement (whether you get the reward or not) will unlock that potential drop in the crown crates.
From there, when ZoS wants to run an event for a particular DLC, they can add additional rewards that you can gain either by completing activities connected with achievements or by purchasing crown crates. And because the crown crates are tied to specific DLC/Chapters, you can only purchase the crown crates if you own the connected DLC/Chapter or have ESO plus. And because the rewards are only added to the crown crate based on first completing an achievement, even if someone purchases the crate to get the reward instead of grinding achievements, it still represents the connected achievement. And connecting the crown crates to DLC/Chapters will encourage more people to purchase more DLC or get ESO plus, which would both give players something to feel rewarded and help ZoS earn more money.
Suggested by @AuldWolf Ensure all events run for a long enough time to allow those who choose not to purchase things to be able to earn them. As @AuldWolf pointed out, by not giving a long enough amount of time, it can be discouraging to players, and discouragement spreads among potential paying customers and can impact profits in both the long and short run. With this system, it is possible that we could have some kind of event constantly running, and possibly multiple events running at the same time. And given the connection to achievements (especially if we used the Seals of Endeavor, it would mean that players would earn rewards simply by doing content they are already doing.
Suggested by @Necrotech_Master We could also add in one free crown crate per month, which would have the added benefit of introducing more people to what you could get from the crown crates and giving those going for the rewards another free chance to get something. And if the free crown crate were put towards the end of the month, then it would also encourage regular playing of the game. As for the profit of giving things away, just look at places like Costco who literally pay people to give samples away.
Launch/Anniversary Events:
Needs New name
As the name implies, launch events will be events connected with the launch of a new DLC (or its anniversary celebration). Ideally, these would not be like the current ambiguous launch events. These events will allow you to expand on the current gem/seals of endeavor system and give them as a reward towards the purchase of DLC themed rewards.
They could release multiple types of rewards all themed off different things they want to drive the player base towards and have it based on completing various achievements. Once, the player completes the achievement, they have two ways they can collect the bling, they can purchase it from the crown store or they could collect enough tickets and trade them in for various types of bling that they have unlocked.
If the reward is something that players actually want, then this kind of event will drive sales of new content and/or increase ESO plus subscriptions as people will want to get the new content sooner so they could collect the limited time rewards. Then, later on, when they want to drive sales and/or activity for a particular DLC, or if they simply get ideas for new bling, that would fit with a prior DLC (including dungeon DLC) they could then host an anniversary event for a brief period and again drive sales for that content, while giving players something to show off their achievements.
With Launch/Anniversary Events, these should separate from the ambiguous events that are occasionally ran and should be connected with regular activities that players already do to earn achievements.
Underdog events:
These events are specifically built to build community. It is essentially built around the idea of carrying players through tough challenges. To earn gems/seals of endeavor for this, you have to have at least one player whose account does not have the achievement in question unlocked (for example Trifecta run through a vet hard mode trial), and then help that player get the achievement.
Like the prior suggestion, I chose to go with a gems/seals of endeavor system as that encourages repeated attempts and allows for the bling to also be sold in the crown store, thus keeping more profit options open. And by having an event built around helping a player who has not achieved a hard challenge. By doing this, it encourages skilled players to reach out to less skilled players and help teach them how to complete harder challenges. This will also help build friendships among players, which in turn will help with player retention, and help bridge the gap between the low skilled and top tier players.
Non-Event based rewards
For all dungeons/trials add a gems system to the completion of the dungeon that lets players get gems/seals of endeavor to earn rewards. And give additional gems/seals of endeavor for completing more things within the dungeon, like completing additional trifecta (vet hardmode, no death speed runs or even just things like taking someone through vet content for the first time).
Guild/Group Based Rewards/Events
Suggested by @Dr_Con introduce more Guild themed motifs that would also let you display your guild above your head while wearing the motif.
Along with that idea, we could introduce more guild themed events, possibly even a guild based pvp mode. There are a lot of possibilities for guild-based events that could be implemented.
Suggested by @AinSoph creating more events that promote having players groups casually to get rewards.
[bDaily/]Weekly Endeavors[/b]
Suggested by @Tandor for some the weekly endeavors feel they are geared to a very specific playstyle. We could possibly implement some of these rewards right into the current Endeavor system and use the events to expand what you could do to earn endeavors, and given the desire some have expressed to see the gems just go away, leaving only endeavors, that might not be a bad idea to try.
Edited by Tornaad on October 25, 2022 11:43PM Build a proposal for a new reward structure from community suggestions that ZoS would be willing to implement.
Conditions:
1. If ZoS is going to implement the proposed reward structure, then it must be something that would drive profits for them. IE more people subscribing to ESO plus, more people purchasing DLC, more people spending money from the crown store, bring in new players or bring old players back into the game, and/or some new form of revenue not currently implemented.
2. For the reward structure to work it must feel rewarding to players, thus it must actually be rewarding.
What this means is that if we expect them to implement this, then we would not want to take away a source of revenue from them like the crown crates.
Note:
As this is meant to be a community created, please avoid simply dismissing someone else’s idea. If someone proposes an idea that you do not like, then either propose changes to it, that you would like or propose an alternative to that idea. At a minimum, provide support for someone else’s idea that you like better. No post should simply be a dismissal of another person’s idea, that is not constructive and leads us nowhere.
As it is easier to expand on something that already exists than to completely recreate something, I am adding my own suggestion to this. However, it is just a suggestion and by the time we are done, could be completely thrown out and replaced with something much better. If that were to happen, I would be all the happier, just as long as we create something that is dynamic enough to engage players and that will help drive profits for ZoS (thus making them more willing to implement it).
As we create the proposed reward structure, I will update this post, thus that section will be labeled “Current Suggestion.”
Rules
1. No posts about simply how you do not like an idea. All posts must be constructive.
2. If you do not like an idea, that is fine, you must share a better or modified suggestion in your post as well.
And as this is only a start, I want to be clear, even if we end up scrapping my initial ideas entirely, I am just fine with that, as long as we build something that would leave the players feeling rewarded and that ZoS would actually be likely to spend time and money to implement.
Current Suggestions
Crown Crate ModificationAs we do not want to get rid of the crown crates, (unless we can think of something else that would bring in as much revenue for them) I propose that we try to adjust how they work to allow for both more money to go towards ZoS and more benefit to go towards the player.
I propose they adjust how the crown crates work and specifically tie them to different DLC and/or chapters. Additionally, they could dramatically increase the potential rewards for completing achievements. Leave a few like we currently have, where the moment you unlock the achievement you get a reward, but add something extra to each achievement, that can be unlocked with additional attempts at the achievement. The first completion of the achievement (whether you get the reward or not) will unlock that potential drop in the crown crates.
From there, when ZoS wants to run an event for a particular DLC, they can add additional rewards that you can gain either by completing activities connected with achievements or by purchasing crown crates. And because the crown crates are tied to specific DLC/Chapters, you can only purchase the crown crates if you own the connected DLC/Chapter or have ESO plus. And because the rewards are only added to the crown crate based on first completing an achievement, even if someone purchases the crate to get the reward instead of grinding achievements, it still represents the connected achievement. And connecting the crown crates to DLC/Chapters will encourage more people to purchase more DLC or get ESO plus, which would both give players something to feel rewarded and help ZoS earn more money.
Suggested by @AuldWolf Ensure all events run for a long enough time to allow those who choose not to purchase things to be able to earn them. As @AuldWolf pointed out, by not giving a long enough amount of time, it can be discouraging to players, and discouragement spreads among potential paying customers and can impact profits in both the long and short run. With this system, it is possible that we could have some kind of event constantly running, and possibly multiple events running at the same time. And given the connection to achievements (especially if we used the Seals of Endeavor, it would mean that players would earn rewards simply by doing content they are already doing.
Suggested by @Necrotech_Master We could also add in one free crown crate per month, which would have the added benefit of introducing more people to what you could get from the crown crates and giving those going for the rewards another free chance to get something. And if the free crown crate were put towards the end of the month, then it would also encourage regular playing of the game. As for the profit of giving things away, just look at places like Costco who literally pay people to give samples away.
Launch/Anniversary Events:
Needs New name
As the name implies, launch events will be events connected with the launch of a new DLC (or its anniversary celebration). Ideally, these would not be like the current ambiguous launch events. These events will allow you to expand on the current gem/seals of endeavor system and give them as a reward towards the purchase of DLC themed rewards.
They could release multiple types of rewards all themed off different things they want to drive the player base towards and have it based on completing various achievements. Once, the player completes the achievement, they have two ways they can collect the bling, they can purchase it from the crown store or they could collect enough tickets and trade them in for various types of bling that they have unlocked.
If the reward is something that players actually want, then this kind of event will drive sales of new content and/or increase ESO plus subscriptions as people will want to get the new content sooner so they could collect the limited time rewards. Then, later on, when they want to drive sales and/or activity for a particular DLC, or if they simply get ideas for new bling, that would fit with a prior DLC (including dungeon DLC) they could then host an anniversary event for a brief period and again drive sales for that content, while giving players something to show off their achievements.
With Launch/Anniversary Events, these should separate from the ambiguous events that are occasionally ran and should be connected with regular activities that players already do to earn achievements.
Underdog events:
These events are specifically built to build community. It is essentially built around the idea of carrying players through tough challenges. To earn gems/seals of endeavor for this, you have to have at least one player whose account does not have the achievement in question unlocked (for example Trifecta run through a vet hard mode trial), and then help that player get the achievement.
Like the prior suggestion, I chose to go with a gems/seals of endeavor system as that encourages repeated attempts and allows for the bling to also be sold in the crown store, thus keeping more profit options open. And by having an event built around helping a player who has not achieved a hard challenge. By doing this, it encourages skilled players to reach out to less skilled players and help teach them how to complete harder challenges. This will also help build friendships among players, which in turn will help with player retention, and help bridge the gap between the low skilled and top tier players.
Non-Event based rewards
For all dungeons/trials add a gems system to the completion of the dungeon that lets players get gems/seals of endeavor to earn rewards. And give additional gems/seals of endeavor for completing more things within the dungeon, like completing additional trifecta (vet hardmode, no death speed runs or even just things like taking someone through vet content for the first time).
Guild/Group Based Rewards/Events
Suggested by @Dr_Con introduce more Guild themed motifs that would also let you display your guild above your head while wearing the motif.
Along with that idea, we could introduce more guild themed events, possibly even a guild based pvp mode. There are a lot of possibilities for guild-based events that could be implemented.
Suggested by @AinSoph creating more events that promote having players groups casually to get rewards.
[bDaily/]Weekly Endeavors[/b]
Suggested by @Tandor for some the weekly endeavors feel they are geared to a very specific playstyle. We could possibly implement some of these rewards right into the current Endeavor system and use the events to expand what you could do to earn endeavors, and given the desire some have expressed to see the gems just go away, leaving only endeavors, that might not be a bad idea to try.
2
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Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭crown crate suggestion
i would have is to just add like 1 crate back into the daily login rewards in place of the forced cosmetics/pets that just clog up collection
if we were able to get even 1 free crate a month then people could have a chance at getting something cool, or if they dont want anything convert it to gems to be useable at a later time (1 crate a month would still take a year to get anything decent with the conversion rates)
launch events
the community events are fun, but they have obvious problems such as the hugely ambiguous progress bars
the other problem with the launch events too is that they require accessing the new content, not everyone is interested in buying or can afford to buy the newest chapter at full price and then expect to participate in an event less than 2 months after launch
underdog events
i dont know if i would try pushing trifectas, especially for trials, if they have very inexperienced players in the group as it would end up just turning into a carry run if they could even complete it without the inexperienced player dying
i could see just trying to get newer players into vet content like vet or vet HM dungeons, or maybe vet trials as those require significantly less effort, but honestly this is almost giving me a vibe of "carry me through hard content because i havent been able to do yet" (and just to be clear i havent completed hard modes on many dlc dungeons or trials yet, because i would want to make sure i feel im ready for said content)
non event rewards
if it involves new currencies then absolutely no, we already have enough
honestly i want them to get rid of crown gems entirely and just use seals of endeavor (it could be both earnable in game AND the currency you get for converting unwanted/duplicate items from crates instead of splitting these)
i also want to see the cap on transmute stones removed, its just dumbplays PC/NA
handle @Necrotech_Master
active player since april 2014
i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (in progress being filled out), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them
feel free to stop by and use the facilities0 -
Auldwulfe✭✭✭✭✭
✭I would include one thing for the Endeavor store -- any item put in the store must remain there long enough to earn the cost of it --- so an item worth 8000 seals of endeavor would stay long enough for someone from zero to get 8000 working solely towards that item ... not saying that it needs to be multiple items, and cheaper items can rotate much faster -- but seriously, there are mounts in there priced at levels that would take 2 years to gather, that are gone in 60 days .....
It doesn't convince me to buy crates, rather, it convinces me to STOP going to the crown store at all ... the base horse is just as fast as the nuclear epileptic seizure inducing mounts, and since no mount is used in combat, they are all merely taxis to get from point to point....
I feel the same about things that are priced ONLY with purple gems .... it doesn't make me buy crates, it makes me decide that what I have, already, is probably better, as it isn't a money grabbing gimmick.
Auldwulfe
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Tornaad✭✭✭✭✭
✭Necrotech_Master wrote: »crown crate suggestion
i would have is to just add like 1 crate back into the daily login rewards in place of the forced cosmetics/pets that just clog up collection
if we were able to get even 1 free crate a month then people could have a chance at getting something cool, or if they dont want anything convert it to gems to be useable at a later time (1 crate a month would still take a year to get anything decent with the conversion rates)
launch events
the community events are fun, but they have obvious problems such as the hugely ambiguous progress bars
the other problem with the launch events too is that they require accessing the new content, not everyone is interested in buying or can afford to buy the newest chapter at full price and then expect to participate in an event less than 2 months after launch
underdog events
i dont know if i would try pushing trifectas, especially for trials, if they have very inexperienced players in the group as it would end up just turning into a carry run if they could even complete it without the inexperienced player dying
i could see just trying to get newer players into vet content like vet or vet HM dungeons, or maybe vet trials as those require significantly less effort, but honestly this is almost giving me a vibe of "carry me through hard content because i havent been able to do yet" (and just to be clear i havent completed hard modes on many dlc dungeons or trials yet, because i would want to make sure i feel im ready for said content)
non event rewards
if it involves new currencies then absolutely no, we already have enough
honestly i want them to get rid of crown gems entirely and just use seals of endeavor (it could be both earnable in game AND the currency you get for converting unwanted/duplicate items from crates instead of splitting these)
i also want to see the cap on transmute stones removed, its just dumb
I think I got all of your suggestions in. There were a lot of really good suggestions.0 -
Tornaad✭✭✭✭✭
✭I would include one thing for the Endeavor store -- any item put in the store must remain there long enough to earn the cost of it --- so an item worth 8000 seals of endeavor would stay long enough for someone from zero to get 8000 working solely towards that item ... not saying that it needs to be multiple items, and cheaper items can rotate much faster -- but seriously, there are mounts in there priced at levels that would take 2 years to gather, that are gone in 60 days .....
It doesn't convince me to buy crates, rather, it convinces me to STOP going to the crown store at all ... the base horse is just as fast as the nuclear epileptic seizure inducing mounts, and since no mount is used in combat, they are all merely taxis to get from point to point....
I feel the same about things that are priced ONLY with purple gems .... it doesn't make me buy crates, it makes me decide that what I have, already, is probably better, as it isn't a money grabbing gimmick.
Auldwulfe
Very good points.0 -
chessalavakia_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I would be hesitant about advocating changes to areas related to money.
Games generally treat financial aspects more like a science than an art which leads to less long term mistakes.
For example, early on the login rewards included Crown Crates.
They stopped doing that which suggests it did not have great results.
You also ram into the issue that many systems such as Crown Crates are aimed more at whales than normal people and many of us don't necessarily know many whales very well or know much about them in general. As a result, it's hard for us to design a system to effectively extracts money from them.
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Tornaad✭✭✭✭✭
✭chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »I would be hesitant about advocating changes to areas related to money.
Games generally treat financial aspects more like a science than an art which leads to less long term mistakes.
For example, early on the login rewards included Crown Crates.
They stopped doing that which suggests it did not have great results.
You also ram into the issue that many systems such as Crown Crates are aimed more at whales than normal people and many of us don't necessarily know many whales very well or know much about them in general. As a result, it's hard for us to design a system to effectively extracts money from them.
I very much understand your concern. @Nefas has posted more than a few videos on this kind of thing and while many (if not all) of his ideas are amazing, they tend to take away a revenue source for Zos. Yes, I recognize that the crown crates is aimed at the whales, and we would not want to take that away from them. We would want to create something to expand on it, and turn it into something that could leave the revenue source from the whales and provide benefits to everyone else. We might even be able find something that both gives a dynamic and engaging reward structure for the average player and gives more for the whales to consume at the same time. I personally do not see why that is not possible. The initial suggestion I wrote up, was created with that idea in mind.0 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭My feeling is that you will find ZOS has little or no interest in adopting anything of the nature you propose. Corporate structure alone will most likely continue the current status quo.
As it happens, I don't buy crates though you may call me a whale in other ways I suppose. Also as it happens I'm perfectly happy with the current rewards structures.______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....2 -
Tornaad✭✭✭✭✭
✭My feeling is that you will find ZOS has little or no interest in adopting anything of the nature you propose. Corporate structure alone will most likely continue the current status quo.
As it happens, I don't buy crates though you may call me a whale in other ways I suppose. Also as it happens I'm perfectly happy with the current rewards structures.
I am a business management student. If you want a corporation to move, then you need to speak in terms of money.
So, while from a player's perspective, something like one of the wonderful videos that nefas put together might seem amazing, from a corporate perspective, they might only focus on the idea that he suggested taking away a major revenue stream. Which is why I propose the avenue I did, specifically, focus on not taking any revenue away and instead combining the rewards with revenue streams and trying to focus on how much both the players and ZoS could gain by this idea.
The one downside we do have is that we will not have any numbers we can throw at them but if we build enough momentum here, then it would not take much for someone on that side to run some numbers.0 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭But I don't see any need for any changes. Why do you see a need?______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....3 -
Tornaad✭✭✭✭✭
✭But I don't see any need for any changes. Why do you see a need?
I have seen enough people over a long enough time asking for a change, that I wanted to come up with something I could see a company adopting and a player base enjoying. In all truth, I am a lot like you, I am fine with the current reward structure, but a lot of people are not, and as a business management major, when I look at the proposals, I am left to wonder, "If I were running ZoS, would I want to invest money into this?" And all too often, the answer would be no.
Then, there is the growing negative sentiment I see in the community, and between the two, I put a few months of thought into this thinking about what I could do to possibly make an impact in some way, and this was the result. If it actually does something, then awesome. If it goes nowhere and I get laughed out of the forums, then I can still say I tried.1 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well, I don't think you'll be laughed at. I've just had 30+ years of playing games from large corporations (Bioware with the FR games and ME games, Bethesda from the beginning at Arena release, Blizzard from Vanilla WoW, Trion Worlds from early in RIFT's run), and reading/posting in their forums.
All of their forums are/were pretty much just like this one - a lot of negativity, and no real movement/interest from the corporate folks. I think it's because even though few people here think there's a "plan" of any sort, there obviously IS a plan, or the game would be long gone by now, and so would the others I played. I mean, even RIFT is still in existence unless gamigo did something weird recently!
I do have to say that should the reward structures change in some way , morph into something either better - or at least not worse! - I would most likely be fine with that too. In general, I don't really play games like this for "rewards" - I play them for the fun, and when they stop being fun I stop playing them (and posting in their forums).______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....2 -
FeedbackOnly✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I think look crates are fine as they are currently. There's nothing wrong
...I buy every dlc ...even update 35 though starting to question chapter quality.
Reward system is meh with most of things motif pages or generic items . Even worse is we lack a group finder to find groups for such things
My favorite event is battlegrounds one and explorer event. Nice and simple
The celebration names have gotten better but agree some have been meh in naming sense
Overall I don't agree with you0 -
Tornaad✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well, I don't think you'll be laughed at. I've just had 30+ years of playing games from large corporations (Bioware with the FR games and ME games, Bethesda from the beginning at Arena release, Blizzard from Vanilla WoW, Trion Worlds from early in RIFT's run), and reading/posting in their forums.
All of their forums are/were pretty much just like this one - a lot of negativity, and no real movement/interest from the corporate folks. I think it's because even though few people here think there's a "plan" of any sort, there obviously IS a plan, or the game would be long gone by now, and so would the others I played. I mean, even RIFT is still in existence unless gamigo did something weird recently!
I do have to say that should the reward structures change in some way , morph into something either better - or at least not worse! - I would most likely be fine with that too. In general, I don't really play games like this for "rewards" - I play them for the fun, and when they stop being fun I stop playing them (and posting in their forums).
I am with you on that last one. That is why I resisted playing ESO as long as I did. In my case, I got introduced to Tamriel with Morrowind when it came out and quickly got lost and never came back. I have almost exclusively played Elder Scrolls games for more than 15 years. The one question I asked to a coworker before starting ESO was if there was something in the game that would leave me feeling like I had to play (ie turning it into a job).0 -
Tornaad✭✭✭✭✭
✭FeedbackOnly wrote: »I think look crates are fine as they are currently. There's nothing wrong
...I buy every dlc ...even update 35 though starting to question chapter quality.
Reward system is meh with most of things motif pages or generic items . Even worse is we lack a group finder to find groups for such things
My favorite event is battlegrounds one and explorer event. Nice and simple
The celebration names have gotten better but agree some have been meh in naming sense
Overall I don't agree with you
And things like that is why I decided to try to put this together. While for me, the game itself is my reward. The first thing I plan on doing when they get all of Tamriel built is to see how long it takes to run around the whole map. However, I recognize that I am likely in a minority, and I want to see what I can do to make a difference, so I thought I would put my education and interest in the game to a good use and see what I can do to build something that everyone would enjoy and be left feeling rewarded and that might be viewed by ZoS as a worthwhile investment of their time and money.0 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The only change I would make to the present reward structure would be in respect of the weekly Endeavour rewards, which are often geared to a very narrow range of playstyles given that there are only 3 options.
If the weekly options weren't increased to 5 like the daily rewards, then I think the 3 options should consist of 1 solo overland content (including crafting), 1 group based content, and 1 PvP content (from among Cyrodiil, IC, BG and duelling).0 -
Dr_Con✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Guild Style Motifs. Wearing this will show your guild name above your head as well.
This suggestion solves all of ZOS's money issues for years to come.0 -
Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well, I don't think you'll be laughed at. I've just had 30+ years of playing games from large corporations (Bioware with the FR games and ME games, Bethesda from the beginning at Arena release, Blizzard from Vanilla WoW, Trion Worlds from early in RIFT's run), and reading/posting in their forums.
All of their forums are/were pretty much just like this one - a lot of negativity, and no real movement/interest from the corporate folks. I think it's because even though few people here think there's a "plan" of any sort, there obviously IS a plan, or the game would be long gone by now, and so would the others I played. I mean, even RIFT is still in existence unless gamigo did something weird recently!
I do have to say that should the reward structures change in some way , morph into something either better - or at least not worse! - I would most likely be fine with that too. In general, I don't really play games like this for "rewards" - I play them for the fun, and when they stop being fun I stop playing them (and posting in their forums).
I am with you on that last one. That is why I resisted playing ESO as long as I did. In my case, I got introduced to Tamriel with Morrowind when it came out and quickly got lost and never came back. I have almost exclusively played Elder Scrolls games for more than 15 years. The one question I asked to a coworker before starting ESO was if there was something in the game that would leave me feeling like I had to play (ie turning it into a job).
the one thing that makes the game feel like a chore to me is daily crafting writs, so i flat out dont do them lol
ive been playing mmos for about 15 years (granted my only real long term mmo experience is with city of heroes and this game lol)plays PC/NA
handle @Necrotech_Master
active player since april 2014
i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (in progress being filled out), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them
feel free to stop by and use the facilities0 -
AinSoph✭✭✭✭✭Imo, the only event that even felt really good to participate in was the Zenithar event because it actually promoted grouping with friends/guildmates for the rewards. Even someone as anti-social as me was doing Harrowstorms/Dragons with my mates who I barely speak to and every other event just felt like an extra set of dailies.1 -
Tornaad✭✭✭✭✭
✭The only change I would make to the present reward structure would be in respect of the weekly Endeavour rewards, which are often geared to a very narrow range of playstyles given that there are only 3 options.
If the weekly options weren't increased to 5 like the daily rewards, then I think the 3 options should consist of 1 solo overland content (including crafting), 1 group based content, and 1 PvP content (from among Cyrodiil, IC, BG and duelling).Guild Style Motifs. Wearing this will show your guild name above your head as well.
This suggestion solves all of ZOS's money issues for years to come.
@Tandor @Dr_Con I believe I got both of your ideas added to the suggestion.0 -
Tornaad✭✭✭✭✭
✭Imo, the only event that even felt really good to participate in was the Zenithar event because it actually promoted grouping with friends/guildmates for the rewards. Even someone as anti-social as me was doing Harrowstorms/Dragons with my mates who I barely speak to and every other event just felt like an extra set of dailies.
So, things like more guild based events might be a really good thing from your perspective @AinSoph , or would you be thinking something different?0 -
AinSoph✭✭✭✭✭Imo, the only event that even felt really good to participate in was the Zenithar event because it actually promoted grouping with friends/guildmates for the rewards. Even someone as anti-social as me was doing Harrowstorms/Dragons with my mates who I barely speak to and every other event just felt like an extra set of dailies.
So, things like more guild based events might be a really good thing from your perspective @AinSoph , or would you be thinking something different?
Basically anything that promotes having players grouped casually to get rewards. So far only that event felt pleasant to do, even better than the anniversary event.0 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Imo, the only event that even felt really good to participate in was the Zenithar event because it actually promoted grouping with friends/guildmates for the rewards. Even someone as anti-social as me was doing Harrowstorms/Dragons with my mates who I barely speak to and every other event just felt like an extra set of dailies.
So, things like more guild based events might be a really good thing from your perspective @AinSoph , or would you be thinking something different?
Basically anything that promotes having players grouped casually to get rewards. So far only that event felt pleasant to do, even better than the anniversary event.
Not good from my perspective - I haven't any use for grouping with people I don't know, and i don't know much of anyone playing this game.______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....1 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭"I would include one thing for the Endeavor store -- any item put in the store must remain there long enough to earn the cost of it --- so an item worth 8000 seals of endeavor would stay long enough for someone from zero to get 8000 working solely towards that item ... not saying that it needs to be multiple items, and cheaper items can rotate much faster -- but seriously, there are mounts in there priced at levels that would take 2 years to gather, that are gone in 60 days ....."
The rewards for endeavors are tied to available crown crates so should be considered seasonal. Those items will come back around when the crown crates come back. If there is a particular mount you wish to purchase with endeavors save up and eventually it will be available again.
I believe endeavors are tied to crates to comply with new loot box rules in parts of Europe.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."0 -
chessalavakia_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »I would be hesitant about advocating changes to areas related to money.
Games generally treat financial aspects more like a science than an art which leads to less long term mistakes.
For example, early on the login rewards included Crown Crates.
They stopped doing that which suggests it did not have great results.
You also ram into the issue that many systems such as Crown Crates are aimed more at whales than normal people and many of us don't necessarily know many whales very well or know much about them in general. As a result, it's hard for us to design a system to effectively extracts money from them.
I very much understand your concern. @Nefas has posted more than a few videos on this kind of thing and while many (if not all) of his ideas are amazing, they tend to take away a revenue source for Zos. Yes, I recognize that the crown crates is aimed at the whales, and we would not want to take that away from them. We would want to create something to expand on it, and turn it into something that could leave the revenue source from the whales and provide benefits to everyone else. We might even be able find something that both gives a dynamic and engaging reward structure for the average player and gives more for the whales to consume at the same time. I personally do not see why that is not possible. The initial suggestion I wrote up, was created with that idea in mind.
I think the possibility would depend on how much the exclusivity acts as a driver for sales. If exclusivity is one of the primary drivers, opening up more items to the non-whales would potentially put a damper on sales.
People have been asking for more items to be earnable /available for purchase from gold for years and ZOS hasn't done it much and I'd assume at this point that is a deliberate choice and since I doubt people are passionate against mount variety for regular folks it is probably a data driven one imho.
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boi_anachronism_✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I really like the underdog event idea. I think that would go a long way towards creating a healthier community. As far as the rest- yeah, the reward structure needs an overhaul. The fact that you can't grind or farm for mounts with one exception that I can think of is really questionable, especially in a vast open world game where it's really a requirement for basic gameplay. Plenty of other mmos do this and it wouldn't stop people from buying the newest or fanciest ones they want from the crown store anyway. Good rewards create engagement. Engagement both brings in and retains players.1 -
Tornaad✭✭✭✭✭
✭boi_anachronism_ wrote: »I really like the underdog event idea. I think that would go a long way towards creating a healthier community. As far as the rest- yeah, the reward structure needs an overhaul. The fact that you can't grind or farm for mounts with one exception that I can think of is really questionable, especially in a vast open world game where it's really a requirement for basic gameplay. Plenty of other mmos do this and it wouldn't stop people from buying the newest or fanciest ones they want from the crown store anyway. Good rewards create engagement. Engagement both brings in and retains players.
I'm glad someone else loves the Underdog event. I put a lot of thought into it and while I think it certainly needs polish, I too love the principle behind it.0 -
Tornaad✭✭✭✭✭
✭chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »I would be hesitant about advocating changes to areas related to money.
Games generally treat financial aspects more like a science than an art which leads to less long term mistakes.
For example, early on the login rewards included Crown Crates.
They stopped doing that which suggests it did not have great results.
You also ram into the issue that many systems such as Crown Crates are aimed more at whales than normal people and many of us don't necessarily know many whales very well or know much about them in general. As a result, it's hard for us to design a system to effectively extracts money from them.
I very much understand your concern. @Nefas has posted more than a few videos on this kind of thing and while many (if not all) of his ideas are amazing, they tend to take away a revenue source for Zos. Yes, I recognize that the crown crates is aimed at the whales, and we would not want to take that away from them. We would want to create something to expand on it, and turn it into something that could leave the revenue source from the whales and provide benefits to everyone else. We might even be able find something that both gives a dynamic and engaging reward structure for the average player and gives more for the whales to consume at the same time. I personally do not see why that is not possible. The initial suggestion I wrote up, was created with that idea in mind.
I think the possibility would depend on how much the exclusivity acts as a driver for sales. If exclusivity is one of the primary drivers, opening up more items to the non-whales would potentially put a damper on sales.
People have been asking for more items to be earnable /available for purchase from gold for years and ZOS hasn't done it much and I'd assume at this point that is a deliberate choice and since I doubt people are passionate against mount variety for regular folks it is probably a data driven one imho.
I agree, that trying to find the balance between allowing things to be earnable and not detracting from the sales would be a hard place to find, but I really think it might be worth it.0 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I stopped with the first suggestion as it is far too convoluted beyond trying to tie crates to both DLCs and events.
First off, Zenimax is not going to add variability to crates as that becomes a mess even before the fact they have to publish the odds for gaining rewards from the crown crate.
As for the event part of the crown crate suggestion, Zenimax offers more items available to buy with tickets because not everyone wants the same thing. It is offering us a choice. If a player feels compelled to buy everything, then that is a personal issue. IIRC, styles and many other items are tradable which is something they can buy with gold and use tickets only for what can be obtained only with tickets.
And last, for the suggestion of one free crate per month. I am pretty sure ESO+ players are able to get the crate every month and have some crowns left over from their monthly stipend.But I don't see any need for any changes. Why do you see a need?
I fully agree there is no need for this.
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Tra_Lalan✭✭✭✭✭I agree that the reward system could use a rework. I struggle to find the motivation to play the game.
There is no challange in the overland (which is most of the game), and there are no rewards that I find intrest in, in most of the activities. The way the sets are designed makes it very easy to get the most optimal gear. You don't have this idea in mind, that every loot can give you a slightly better item, and make you slightly stronger. Also there is no motivation in getting stronger for most of the content, so why bother. It was a decision made by the developers, and I'm sure they knew what they were doing, but this design has flaws for sure.
Due to this design currently most of the things that we can desire in game are cosmetics. And almost all of them are in crownstore. So the rewards are already in the game, but there is no connection between them and playing the game. The solution to this is easy, just find a connection between the already existing rewards and spending time/playing the game.
Here are some examples how you can connect them:
1. Make crown crates a rare drop from any activity (not as rare as aetheric cypher tho, its not like finding one crate in two years of playing will motivate anyone)
2. Make achievement points convertable to seals of endavours (once per point)
3. Make crownstore items buyable for ingame gold.
4. Other stated above (like attaching existing crownstore items to achievements or giving more options to earn seals of endavours)3 -
Gaebriel0410✭✭✭✭✭I really really like that Underdog suggestion and I hope they will implement something like it.
I know Final Fantasy has a similar system where you get extra dungeon rewards when there's someone in your group who hasn't done the content before. In that game the reward is only extra XP (though in comparison it's more meaningful there as ESO is way faster in leveling, so ESO should ideally reward something else for a comparible result).
But what it does in that game is completely change the vibe of getting beginner players in your dungeon run. Instead of "kick the noob we need more dps for a faster more efficient run" the reward structure turned the general ambiance into "help the noob completing his first time so we all get extra rewards". It's honestly a gamechanger in terms of atmosphere, if that makes sense.
It is such a small thing on paper, but I saw it often encourages team play, persistence and it made the presence of a new player into a bonus instead of a detractor. So in that game, as a new player I was pretty comfortable doing random dungeons since I knew that regardless of being new, my presence would contribute something to the team and being an insufferable perfectionist, it was the nudge I needed haha. And while I think ESO is a far superior game in most aspects, it's FF14 that helped me conquer my irrational fear (ok strong word but still) of random dungeons, which led to me discovering them in ESO too not that long ago.
I think community /group oriented features are always a good thing in an MMO and sometimes all it takes is a little nudge in the form of a bonus reward, to encourage players to help each other. Out of all the suggestions, encouraging group play through rewards is the thing that I think they should expand on first and foremost.
The FF example above is super basic even, ESO could literally steal the idea and make it better and more versatile by adding it for things like dungeon achievements as well as dungeon completion.
I am not sure what would be a good reward, seals sounds very nice but the amount should probably not exceed the amount you can get on a daily basis. Maybe a once a day bonus of half of that, because it's a repeatable activity.0