2022: Plentiful Harvest + Resource Survey + 2x node, chances of quadruple harvest?

moleculardrugs

I have looked up and down the internet and have found mixed answers. I did not do my surveys during the last 2x node event but today in guild chat, someone mentioned that you would have gotten 2x + the 50% chance of getting double again if you had used your surveys during this event.

Is it true that plentiful harvest will work on survey spots?

Is it true that survey spots double yield during the 2x resource node events? I am kicking myself for not have used my surveys -__- but there's always next time of course.

(For 10-18-22, U35/U36 if anyone from the future is reading this.)

tmbrinks

the double resource node events have never increased the amounts from surveys.

plentiful harvest does work on them however. (but data shows it only 40%, not the 50% the tooltip says)

rpa

Plentiful harvest works on survey nodes (like ZOS rng in general, not quite as written in tooltip), double resource event does not. So you have not lost anything other than bonus on normal nodes you'd pick while on way to survey.
I myself did my surveys because double resources is a good time to scurry around and pick nodes. (Perhaps not at Craglorn.)

bmnoble

Double node events never affect surveys, they usually mention that specifically in the event info page each time they include double nodes for events. Did mine like normal while the event was happening no difference from the usual yields.

Plentiful harvest does affect them but its all down to RNG, sometimes it won't proc once doing a survey other times all but one node might proc and give you double mats usually with somewhere in between, definitely feels lower overall than the 50% chance the tooltip info says at least to me it does anyway.

virtus753

bmnoble wrote: »

Double node events never affect surveys, they usually mention that specifically in the event info page each time they include double nodes for events. Did mine like normal while the event was happening no difference from the usual yields.

Plentiful harvest does affect them but its all down to RNG, sometimes it won't proc once doing a survey other times all but one node might proc and give you double mats usually with somewhere in between, definitely feels lower overall than the 50% chance the tooltip info says at least to me it does anyway.

It is definitely lower than 50%. Data show closer to 40%, as tmbrinks noted above.

Kevin went off to check on that well over a year ago now. I hope he’s ok!

Dr_Con

virtus753 wrote: »

bmnoble wrote: »

Double node events never affect surveys, they usually mention that specifically in the event info page each time they include double nodes for events. Did mine like normal while the event was happening no difference from the usual yields.

Plentiful harvest does affect them but its all down to RNG, sometimes it won't proc once doing a survey other times all but one node might proc and give you double mats usually with somewhere in between, definitely feels lower overall than the 50% chance the tooltip info says at least to me it does anyway.

It is definitely lower than 50%. Data show closer to 40%, as tmbrinks noted above.

Kevin went off to check on that well over a year ago now. I hope he’s ok!

So I think the base rate is 18 per node, with a possibility of 2 extra (like how normal nodes can give you 1 or 2 extra), with the times 2. Were the calculations done using a base of 20 or with this in mind?
I'm not one to doubt @tmbrinks but it was just a thought I had in passing

Sarannah

Surveys are never included in the double node drops, this is why I only do them after the event ends. Plentiful harvest does work on survey nodes. But it's percentages of doubling the nodes can be strange at times.

Ever since all my characters became max skill level crafters, I have noticed I got more double nodes from my new surveys. This leads me to believe the chance to get the ~50% for double nodes is only for max level crafters surveys. And a lower % chance for lower level crafters surveys. But this might just be superstition.

tmbrinks

Dr_Con wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

bmnoble wrote: »

Double node events never affect surveys, they usually mention that specifically in the event info page each time they include double nodes for events. Did mine like normal while the event was happening no difference from the usual yields.

Plentiful harvest does affect them but its all down to RNG, sometimes it won't proc once doing a survey other times all but one node might proc and give you double mats usually with somewhere in between, definitely feels lower overall than the 50% chance the tooltip info says at least to me it does anyway.

It is definitely lower than 50%. Data show closer to 40%, as tmbrinks noted above.

Kevin went off to check on that well over a year ago now. I hope he’s ok!

So I think the base rate is 18 per node, with a possibility of 2 extra (like how normal nodes can give you 1 or 2 extra), with the times 2. Were the calculations done using a base of 20 or with this in mind?
I'm not one to doubt @tmbrinks but it was just a thought I had in passing

"Double" means 2x "pulls". Each "pull" can be 18 or 20 (on a survey), so when "doubled" you can get 36, 38, or 40 depending on what you get for each individual pull. (If for basic nodes, it's 3 or 4 each pull, so you can get 6, 7, or 8)

virtus753

Sarannah wrote: »

Surveys are never included in the double node drops, this is why I only do them after the event ends. Plentiful harvest does work on survey nodes. But it's percentages of doubling the nodes can be strange at times.

Ever since all my characters became max skill level crafters, I have noticed I got more double nodes from my new surveys. This leads me to believe the chance to get the ~50% for double nodes is only for max level crafters surveys. And a lower % chance for lower level crafters surveys. But this might just be superstition.

I have only drawn and done surveys on max level crafters for the past few years (since well before CP 2.0 came out), and the few times I’ve tested PH (with a few hundred surveys each time), I have not gotten the 50% advertised. I think the best I did was 43% or thereabouts.

One of the things I noticed in my pulls is that a survey can have no nodes proc PH or up to 5 nodes proc PH, but never all 6 doubled in a single survey. I would have expected the chances of doubling none to be equal to the chances of doubling all, if the chance were 50%, but somehow no survey ever had all its nodes doubled for me. Could be coincidence, but after nearly a thousand surveys it strikes me as a bit odd.

ETA: By max-level crafters I mean fully 9-trait in every craft, including jewelry, with all enchanting and alchemy achievements (which were character-specific at the time). My main has had all crafting achievements since CP 2.0, and I do the surveys on them, since they have all the wayshrines unlocked. So I do not think PH chances are the proper 50% even with all possible things maxed out.

Sarannah

virtus753 wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

Surveys are never included in the double node drops, this is why I only do them after the event ends. Plentiful harvest does work on survey nodes. But it's percentages of doubling the nodes can be strange at times.

Ever since all my characters became max skill level crafters, I have noticed I got more double nodes from my new surveys. This leads me to believe the chance to get the ~50% for double nodes is only for max level crafters surveys. And a lower % chance for lower level crafters surveys. But this might just be superstition.

I have only drawn and done surveys on max level crafters for the past few years (since well before CP 2.0 came out), and the few times I’ve tested PH (with a few hundred surveys each time), I have not gotten the 50% advertised. I think the best I did was 43% or thereabouts.

One of the things I noticed in my pulls is that a survey can have no nodes proc PH or up to 5 nodes proc PH, but never all 6 doubled in a single survey. I would have expected the chances of doubling none to be equal to the chances of doubling all, if the chance were 50%, but somehow no survey ever had all its nodes doubled for me. Could be coincidence, but after nearly a thousand surveys it strikes me as a bit odd.

ETA: By max-level crafters I mean fully 9-trait in every craft, including jewelry, with all enchanting and alchemy achievements (which were character-specific at the time). My main has had all crafting achievements since CP 2.0, and I do the surveys on them, since they have all the wayshrines unlocked. So I do not think PH chances are the proper 50% even with all possible things maxed out.

All things mentioned in your ETA, I have as well on all my characters(except some very rare alchemy ingrediënts). Also doing the surveys on my main master crafter who knows almost all motifs.

When I do surveys I always do stacks of 70+. Getting 6 double node procs is rare but it does happen, I have actually taken screenshots of every time that happened(for fun's sake). Which is usually about twice per stack of surveys. But your percentage of about a 43% doubling rate sounds about accurate. most of the time only two/six nodes will double proc. (But I have never kept track or records of this)

rpa

For 1000 surveys change to get at least one with all nodes doubled with max Plentiful Harvest slotted is about 0.9999998552643653838614786942... rather close to 100% if tooltip is correct. But we already know in this game tooltips are not reliable and even devs do not know what the real changes are.
Change to get all nodes doubled for one survey should be 1/64 and run of 45 surveys should have 50% change to have at least one.

virtus753

rpa wrote: »

For 1000 surveys change to get at least one with all nodes doubled with max Plentiful Harvest slotted is about 0.9999998552643653838614786942... rather close to 100% if tooltip is correct. But we already know in this game tooltips are not reliable and even devs do not know what the real changes are.
Change to get all nodes doubled for one survey should be 1/64 and run of 45 surveys should have 50% change to have at least one.

I have gone nearly a thousand surveys now without one being all doubled, which makes more sense to me when the rate is closer to 40% than 50%. Others have had different results, of course, and I’m glad to hear it does happen. But it does not happen as often as it should, since I have had plenty of surveys (many times double digits) with no nodes doubled.

rpa

virtus753 wrote: »

rpa wrote: »

For 1000 surveys change to get at least one with all nodes doubled with max Plentiful Harvest slotted is about 0.9999998552643653838614786942... rather close to 100% if tooltip is correct. But we already know in this game tooltips are not reliable and even devs do not know what the real changes are.
Change to get all nodes doubled for one survey should be 1/64 and run of 45 surveys should have 50% change to have at least one.

I have gone nearly a thousand surveys now without one being all doubled, which makes more sense to me when the rate is closer to 40% than 50%. Others have had different results, of course, and I’m glad to hear it does happen. But it does not happen as often as it should, since I have had plenty of surveys (many times double digits) with no nodes doubled.

Well, with 40% change for Plentiful Harvest your changes of getting a full doubled survey is about 0.4% and at least once in a run of 1000 surveys would be about 98.3%. So getting unlucky is not that out out of question.
No matter how lucky or unlucky you have been, the change of next try is same. If its fair which a MMO most likely is not.

moleculardrugs

virtus753 wrote: »

rpa wrote: »

For 1000 surveys change to get at least one with all nodes doubled with max Plentiful Harvest slotted is about 0.9999998552643653838614786942... rather close to 100% if tooltip is correct. But we already know in this game tooltips are not reliable and even devs do not know what the real changes are.
Change to get all nodes doubled for one survey should be 1/64 and run of 45 surveys should have 50% change to have at least one.

I have gone nearly a thousand surveys now without one being all doubled, which makes more sense to me when the rate is closer to 40% than 50%. Others have had different results, of course, and I’m glad to hear it does happen. But it does not happen as often as it should, since I have had plenty of surveys (many times double digits) with no nodes doubled.

I wonder if plentiful harvest makes it 50% but because they’re not typical nodes there’s another formula after the first one is calculated:

With plentiful harvest:
([RN] + ([RN] •.5)) = [# Harvested]

where RN = normal node

Versus:

([RN] + ([RN] •.5)) • ([SN] + X • .3)

where SN = survey node
X = {1, 2, 3}


——
I failed calculus btw so what I wrote probably makes no sense to anyone who understands math 😅 this is just me suggesting a formula at the end of the first formula to change the variation, since plentiful harvest is suppose to work only on regular nodes but the survey nodes w/ plentiful harvest is probably a generous surprise/bonus from ZOS or the Devs.

ZOS_Icy

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