Actually playing Tales of Tribute changed my opinion.

ArchMikem

When the card game was announced, I gave it the benefit of the doubt, made it known I thought it'd be a nice side addition to gameplay, give us something to do in Taverns/Inns and whatnot. Generally I more or less supported it while many others condemned it as a Chapter feature. Fast forward a couple months after launch and I finally decided to give it a try out of boredom, cause it wasn't really attractive to me personally to jump right on it, and I quickly began to notice things.

1. I still don't know what I'm doing half the time.
I'm slowly picking up on the color coding, playing combos, what Patrons to use and when. However a lot of the time I just feel like I'm stumped and just being carried on by the flow of the match. After a dozen or so matches I still have no idea what use the Loremaster Celarus deck is. All it mainly does is shift cards from your draw pile directly into the cooldown, how is that supposed to help? I've basically figured out if you want to try to win, focus on Pelin and Crows, among the default decks.

2. People using certain decks win much more often.
My recent memory is fogged from all of my losses and built up frustration but I'm pretty sure all of my just three wins were against others using the default decks. The Ansei and Orgnum Decks are just straight overpowered.

3. This game is not about Skill whatsoever.
It's pure Luck, and knowledge of what the cards do. If both players know what the cards do then it's just straight luck of who gets what and when. Here's a moment where a relatively close game turned into just a massive slap in the face. You can tell the moment I just sat there for several seconds.

https://youtu.be/7fh5AmdzPGU

4. Actually playing Tribute has made me feel like I never want to touch it again.
Playing against NPC A.I. will most likely be all I ever do from now on. It's humbling when you lose 43 - 45 to the Novice NPC. When I attempted the win against other players Daily, I played over a dozen matches, maybe 13 or 15 before I finally got three wins. Even then one of those wins, after we had reached "overtime" just devolved into one upping each other every hand, basically abusing the Duke of Crows, until finally,



I like the game for what it's trying to be, but what it ended up being is just another source of fuel if you want to log into ESO to become frustrated. I already know a LOT of the achievements will remain undone for me, and with just how slow you level up from playing matches against NPCs, it's gonna take me a very long time to do those Quests associated.

Kingsindarkness

Yeah but considering all of that...I'm warming up to it.

Vevvev

Good thing about Tales of Tribute is the fact both decks are squished together. So even if you do encounter a broken build you can try to actively deny it or use it yourself.

Game ends up forcing you to not just learn your favorite combos for victory, but also to learn and exploit other combinations your foes might use on you!

Sometimes you can gauge exactly how a game is going to go just by the deck colors picked, and it's always fun to win with a color your opponent picked. (And a little humiliating to lose to a color you picked to). I do know the moment nobody picks the blue or orange decks you can just go full ham on taunt cards and other agents since there's less of a chance they'll get knocked out before you can use them next turn.

SilverBride

ArchMikem wrote: »

After a dozen or so matches I still have no idea what use the Loremaster Celarus deck is. All it mainly does is shift cards from your draw pile directly into the cooldown, how is that supposed to help?

It took me awhile to figure that out, too. How it helps is you can move cards such as coins, writs etc. out of your draw pile and into your cooldown leaving good cards in the draw pile to be used in your next hand and increasing your chance at combos.

spartaxoxo

Luck does play an important factor, because it's a game of chance. But like Poker, it's also a lot of skill involved. Which is why people who don't know what they are doing lose more often than not, and the leaderboards keep having the same people on top over and over again.

Anyway, right off the bat, in your point 3 video, I see a lot of mixes of colors in your hand. I am actually unsure of what your strategy was that match because your hand is a mix of things. And I also see none of the black contract agents on your side of the table. Did you make use of the black deck? How much use did you opponent get out of it?

My guess is this person used the black cards to thin their deck of cards that were a hindrance to getting this kind of combo off, and then loaded up on crows (the purple cards). Many of the purple cards have "draw a card" as part of their combo, so if you can get a purple combo chain going, then you can suddenly generate a ton of coin and power all at once.

The risk of the strategy the other player seemed to be playing from the video is that it can take a long time to go off, as you often have to steadily build up to the conditions that allow this combo to go off over time. So, a counter strategy can be something like a Pelin rush strategy (the red cards) to hit 40 long before the crow user is able to get this kind of combo to go off.

Anyway a crow combo chain strategy is why you were close for so long, only to suddenly lose. It's a high risk, high reward strategy because it's slow to build up power and coins. This means that someone can win while you're building up to this kind of combo. But once it goes off, it can often mean victory right then and there. And if not victory, a big lead. I don't see a luck based win in that video (though they happen), I see a long-term strategy that paid off for your opponent.

Buying a variety of good cards instead of going for a strategy that makes full use of combos is a common beginner mistake. I am unsure if you made it or just got an unlucky draw, so I'm not necessarily saying this is advice to you. Just throwing it out there. I mean the royal you, not you in particular. But in general you should find a strategy you're good at executing in a variety of situations and then mostly buy cards from the tavern that serve that strategy, rather than just buying every useful seeming card.

This game has more skill to it than people give it credit for. There are people I can recognize in TOT that I know I'm in for a tough match because they're just better than me. And some that I also recognize that I win against the vast majority of the time. And also still plenty of new names and faces.

It takes a while to get used to it. But once you do, it's a lot of fun.

Heartrage

Celarus is an harder deck as it doesn’t have the power or gold generation to win games by itself easily.

Celarus helps you get rid of cards that are bad for you, go through your deck faster and set up combos.

For example, if you have 2 crow cards left in your 7 card draw pile, you can use celarus to remove some of those cards to ensure a combo. If you have more crow in your cooldown pile, removing all non-crow from your draw pile will increase the odds of getting a third crow card to combo from.

Alternatively, if you already have a deck full of crow cards, you could also remove the cards that don’t let you pick another card to ensure that you pick the greatest amount of card possible and play your entire deck.

For decks like pelin, celarus is also great to draw high power cards like armory or rally faster. If you have a 15 cards deck, without other card effects, you can only pick these cards every 3 turn at best. However, with 2 or 3 celarus card mixed in, you can reduce it to every 2 turns by getting rid of as many cards as you can.

As for the luck aspect of the game, it’s there. It’s a card game after all. It’s not just luck though, being able to calculate the odds of combos, thinking about averages gold/power generation per turn, maximum/minimum gold per turn, counting cards, choosing the right patron and noticing patterns with the other player draws have a huge impact on win/loss ratios. Players like pink apple wouldn’t be able to consistently be ranked in the top position if it was only luck after all.

kargen27

I was fairly sure I wouldn't be playing the game much. Figured maybe enough to get achievements. First game against another player the player saw he wasn't going to get a quick win flipping the Patrons each turn and the player quit. I didn't get the win and haven't been back.
To many other fun things in game to do so I don't need the frustration. Many in my guild enjoy the game so I am happy for them. Just not something I want to do.

spartaxoxo

kargen27 wrote: »

I was fairly sure I wouldn't be playing the game much. Figured maybe enough to get achievements. First game against another player the player saw he wasn't going to get a quick win flipping the Patrons each turn and the player quit. I didn't get the win and haven't been back.
To many other fun things in game to do so I don't need the frustration. Many in my guild enjoy the game so I am happy for them. Just not something I want to do.

They fixed that bug, of concede not counting for a win. You should try again if that what was holding you back!

kargen27

spartaxoxo wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

I was fairly sure I wouldn't be playing the game much. Figured maybe enough to get achievements. First game against another player the player saw he wasn't going to get a quick win flipping the Patrons each turn and the player quit. I didn't get the win and haven't been back.
To many other fun things in game to do so I don't need the frustration. Many in my guild enjoy the game so I am happy for them. Just not something I want to do.

They fixed that bug, of concede not counting for a win. You should try again if that what was holding you back!

Okay, I might have to try again some time. For now I started a new character on the EU server that is my only character and I am doing the content there that I haven't done in a long time. Has been fun starting with nothing.

NeuroticPixels

spartaxoxo wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

I was fairly sure I wouldn't be playing the game much. Figured maybe enough to get achievements. First game against another player the player saw he wasn't going to get a quick win flipping the Patrons each turn and the player quit. I didn't get the win and haven't been back.
To many other fun things in game to do so I don't need the frustration. Many in my guild enjoy the game so I am happy for them. Just not something I want to do.

They fixed that bug, of concede not counting for a win. You should try again if that what was holding you back!

Did they really?!?!?!?!?!?! Omg. I might actually have to start doing the ToT dailies again then.

katanagirl1

I have enjoyed the card game more than I expected. First I did the 30 NPC dailies and learned how to beat the NPCs, then started the player daily. I basically had to learn how to play all over again because the NPCs are really easy on you compared to other players. Not only do you need to understand the decks work, but also how the patrons work as well. With other players you may also have to keep preventing a quick patron victory while trying to get the most prestige at the same time.

A player can use the Crow patron just like in your video, but that can backfire as well. It only works if the other player cannot match it in the same turn. I’ve learned the hard way not to rely on it too much because once you flip it, you cannot use it again unless the other player flips it back. It’s basically a finisher.

I don’t enjoy the games where it’s constant patron flipping, which seem to be a lot, but I do enjoy a good match that keeps pushing the prestige each turn until finally someone hits 80. The game has multiple strategies to win and frequently you have to employ more than one or even completely change strategy mid-game depending on the cards. Sometimes the tavern just keeps filling up with undesirable cards or I pick up what I think is a good card only to replace it with a better one for my opponent. There was a lot of both for me today.

Kali_Despoine

ArchMikem wrote: »

1. I still don't know what I'm doing half the time.
have no idea what use the Loremaster Celarus deck is. All it mainly does is

2. People using certain decks win much more often.
The Ansei and Orgnum Decks are just straight overpowered.

3. This game is not about Skill whatsoever.
It's pure Luck, and knowledge of what the cards do. .

4. Actually playing Tribute has made me feel like I never want to touch it again.

1 I use it to stack my deck and get rid of junk cards on my next play
2 False I only use the four you start with even though I have the others and I win
3 Yes it's luck of the draw and knowing the cards. If you don't know the cards you wont see how lucky you are. It's also about how you use the cards as well.
4 nothing of value was lost

I like the game myself. Sure I have frustrating hands from time to time but it can also be exciting to get that game changing card in your hand. As I got to know the cards more the better I became.

The crow has to be the most frustrating deck in the game. Have you ever got a 20+ draw with crow? I have run out of time just flipping cards over several times.

Kessra

While I bought the new chapter right when it was announced I actually started to play it actually as the event in that zone went live and hence I unlocked the card game pretty late. I'm now close to reaching level 3 (where do I actually see that level except for when the game finishes?) and still need to learn cards and combos. There could definitely a better tutorial for introducing the game. But it seems learning as you play is the choice ZOS took here.

My ultimate problem with this game is, you have to play all your cards at hand. Why am I not allowed to keep cards in my hands and try to build up combos? Why are cards I do not play put on the stash of played cards when I finish the round? So builing up combos is therefore more of a luck than a valid strategy. Note, I'm only playing vs. the noob NPC and have no interest in PvP. And still I got slain by the simplest NPC as he at one point played combo after combo after combo where I could only play cards that did not grant any combo at all. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind loosing to the simplest NPC but the way it had the "luck" of being able to buy out all combo cards and when it was my turn there were either cards there I couldn't afford or that just allowed me to place 2-4 cards of the left stash onto the used one. Also, why is the NPC allowed to pick the first two patreons? I though its player one chooses one patreon, player two then 2+3 and the selection ends with player one selecting its 2nd patreon.

In general I feel that red and purple decks are simpler to play as yellow or blue (starter) decks. Haven't unlocked others so far so can't give an opinion on those.

ZOS_Icy

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic.

Thank you for your understanding.

francesinhalover

Same issue, i keep trying but i'm just not good at this game.

SeaGtGruff

francesinhalover wrote: »

Same issue, i keep trying but i'm just not good at this game.

It does take a while to absorb everything, so don't give up.

Are you playing against other players, or against the NPCs?

spartaxoxo

francesinhalover wrote: »

Same issue, i keep trying but i'm just not good at this game.

What platform are you on? Or can you make a clip of your gameplay? Maybe someone here can give you some personalized tips.

SeaGtGruff

When I finally got up the courage to try playing against other players, I was dazed and confused by how quickly they bought cards from the tavern, whereas it took me several seconds to look at each card while trying to decide which one(s) to buy.

Now that I've played many more matches-- against NPCs, where I have no timer making me feel rushed to finish my moves-- I've become much more familiar with each patron and each card in their decks, such that I'm now able to make those same kinds of snap decisions which were making my head spin when other players were doing it.

You just have to keep playing matches, and try to gain as much hands-on experience at playing matches with each patron. It might take a while, but if you stick with it and apply yourself, you should eventually be able to beat the Expert NPCs about 95% of the time or more.

Pixiepumpkin

I agree op.

I too gave ToT a go. I have all the achievements except 1 and my conclusion is that it's more luck than skill, by a LANDSLIDE.

I was in voice chat playing against a friend who is new to ToT, literally they don't know what they are doing. I lost 3 in a row because of RNG that always favored my friend.

We have all seen it. None of the cards on the deck favor your hand, so you get what might help. Or you buy a card that is ok for your hand but every move you make gives them a card that plays right into their hand.

NPC's are way to easy to beat and playing against players is like pulling teeth. Either steam roll in one direction or the other because of bad RNG.

HalfDragoness

I'm not going to lie, the tutorial for ToT is so vague and misleading. I remember when I was learning the game I probably lost about 10 games in a row before I gained any understanding of where you were drawing cards from compared to the cards appearing in the tavern.
It's not obvious (the first few times you play) that each player has a personal deck that's separate from the central 'Tavern' deck. And it's not obvious that your personal deck starts off with 6 treasury coin cards and 1 basic 1 coin/1 power card and that you have to buy the good cards. It also not obvious that when you buy a card it doesn;t go immediately into your hand like in Rummy or Uno, it goes into a personal discard pile which then becomes your personal deck, so you have to wait several turns before that card you brought actually shows up in your hand.

I feel like the tutorial should be completely redone and should only feature the Pelin and Hlaalu patron decks so that starter players can just focus on the money and power aspects of the game before then being introduced to the extra dimensions that the crow and psijic decks bring to the game.

Bat

You played against someone who used the laziest tactic of the entire game. Buy all crow cards. Use Duke patron when you have drawn enough cards to have an abundance of gold. Win. A lazy strategy that works way too well.

SeaGtGruff

Bat wrote: »

You played against someone who used the laziest tactic of the entire game. Buy all crow cards. Use Duke patron when you have drawn enough cards to have an abundance of gold. Win. A lazy strategy that works way too well.

IMO, that isn't the laziest tactic, and it certainly isn't foolproof. The laziest tactic is probably spamming Rajhin every turn. That probably isn't foolproof, either, but at least you're more likely to be able to use that tactic on every single turn. With Crow, you must compete against your opponent for buying the Crow cards, so it's unlikely that you'll be able to buy every Crow card that comes up, let alone the specific ones that let you draw additional cards. And then you still need to draw them in ways that let them combo effectively. Your opponent could win while you're still busy buying up whatever Crow cards you can and waiting for them to combo in a huge way that pays off.

spartaxoxo

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Bat wrote: »

You played against someone who used the laziest tactic of the entire game. Buy all crow cards. Use Duke patron when you have drawn enough cards to have an abundance of gold. Win. A lazy strategy that works way too well.

IMO, that isn't the laziest tactic, and it certainly isn't foolproof. The laziest tactic is probably spamming Rajhin every turn. That probably isn't foolproof, either, but at least you're more likely to be able to use that tactic on every single turn. With Crow, you must compete against your opponent for buying the Crow cards, so it's unlikely that you'll be able to buy every Crow card that comes up, let alone the specific ones that let you draw additional cards. And then you still need to draw them in ways that let them combo effectively. Your opponent could win while you're still busy buying up whatever Crow cards you can and waiting for them to combo in a huge way that pays off.

Agree. I see way more Rahjiin spammers on leaderboards than Crows too, but that might just be confirmation bias. Rahjiin and Orgnum spam are cheap, easy, and not reliant on RNG. At least Orgnum got a change that makes it much less obnoxious to deal with. I think that Rahjiin should too.

I'd be curious to know which decks are most used by the top 100 players. I know in other games they display this information.

Bat

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Bat wrote: »

You played against someone who used the laziest tactic of the entire game. Buy all crow cards. Use Duke patron when you have drawn enough cards to have an abundance of gold. Win. A lazy strategy that works way too well.

IMO, that isn't the laziest tactic, and it certainly isn't foolproof. The laziest tactic is probably spamming Rajhin every turn. That probably isn't foolproof, either, but at least you're more likely to be able to use that tactic on every single turn. With Crow, you must compete against your opponent for buying the Crow cards, so it's unlikely that you'll be able to buy every Crow card that comes up, let alone the specific ones that let you draw additional cards. And then you still need to draw them in ways that let them combo effectively. Your opponent could win while you're still busy buying up whatever Crow cards you can and waiting for them to combo in a huge way that pays off.

I'm of course talking about opponent luck. If your opponent gets lucky in the first few gives to grab 2 draw cards, it's pretty much a cakewalk for them from there on, in most games. It's the laziest tactic in that it requires the absolute least brain work. It almost all but guarantees that whoever didn't get those cards from the start will be at a severe financial disadvantage and struggling to keep up.

Melzo

This game needs too much luck. I very often get into the top two percent and slide into the top 10 percent. You can say whatever you want, but my opponent got 12 gold on the first turn due to yellow cards. To win more often you really need to be able to play, but luck at a high level of play plays a much larger role. Since it happens that I or my opponent wins dry without giving the opponent a chance.

Melzo

For me, this is not a fair game when you already see on the 4-5th move that it is impossible to win and you sit and wait 10 minutes until you lose. Or until you give up. So it works for me or for the enemy. Interesting? Gambling? Yes, but doing this for an online game that requires your level of luck and not your skill. It's sloppy. Winning is determined in the first 5 moves. And sometimes a player is lucky on the 1st move. I was already winning on 3 when I came across a powerful combo that gave me either good cards or a lot of gold or discarded the opponent’s hand and the players gave up after that because it became impossible to play. And they had to either endure until you lose or leave and wait 10 minutes. Is this a fair game?? I think no.

CBreeze71

Played quite a bit of ToT as I enjoy these types of games. But after many runs you start to realize that it's luck dressed up in a fancy outfit.

Sure, you can manipulate that "luck" a bit like other card games, but overall it's just RP. Which of course is appropriate.

I still enjoy playing, but I'm certainly not fooling myself.

Almakor

I think any card game in a MMORPG should be simple and straight foward, with equal parts skill and luck. I also believe that if you spend hours upon hours and piles of currency assembling new decks you should be awarded with some sort unique advantage and/or be able to use a unique playstyle. Yu-Gi-Oh! was my favorite as a kid and is a perfect example of this.

Seraphayel

I was sceptical when it was announced, I still think it‘s not something worth to be labeled as a Chapter feature, but since I started playing ToT a week ago I’m pretty much obsessed. And can’t tell you what it is, but it stops me from doing most other stuff as I just want to play another round. I hate the RNG though as that‘s in most cases the deciding factor of who’s going to win or lose.