Most boring CP PvP Meta

Gahn

I know we have all been saying it a lot but let us keep it rollin so ZOS will not stop reading about it. PVP in CP Cyro is boring as hell. Nerfing DPS and introducing easy defense to everyone made PVP so slow and boring. Everyone wants to be an unkillable supertank, because people cannot handle to die in a pvp game. My two PVP guilds left the game and GH NA is super empty compared to the past and EU is starting to get there now, too. New content is -meh and the Ads I see on social media are horrible (I am a performance marketer full time). Let's hope U36 will not make the rest of us leave as well.

xFocused

I just see Mistform and unkillable tanks everywhere now, lol. Idk if that's the current meta but it definitely seems like that's what everyone is obsessing over at the moment

DrSlaughtr

We are stuck through this through the holidays at best. At worst? This will continue or get worse beyond U37. There has been NO attempts to pull back any of this back, despite plenty of outcries and requests.

martinhpb16_ESO

Current meta is stale as hell. It's seriously reduced mine and my guild's playtime.

Reinforces that old trope 'ESO Devs do not play their own game'.

Elendir2am

I think that everyone want to be super killer, who killing one shot anything what moves. All pesky tanks should be ban from Cyrodiil, only squishy characters should be involved.

YandereGirlfriend

Can definitely confirm that BR-NA population and organized groups are both down over the last month or so.

Also a big agree to the wanting to move on from this stale, tanky meta. The overwhelming sentiment of PvP players is that damage metas are significantly more fun to play in so why not give the people what they want?

DrSlaughtr

Elendir2am wrote: »

I think that everyone want to be super killer, who killing one shot anything what moves. All pesky tanks should be ban from Cyrodiil, only squishy characters should be involved.

It's almost as if there's a giant middle ground in there we should strive for. There's nothing wrong with tanks in pvp. I'm assuming you enjoy the current trend in pvp. You might consider that you need people to play with and against, and constant stalemates and endless kiting is a good way to make people log off.

There are a few sets that are unfortunately enabling most of the issues in cyro. I'm not saying the sets need to be nerfed but it's hard to not see balorgs, rallying cry and maras as carrying these set ups.

Most of the issues could be solved by decreasing healing and damage in battle spirit. All of this can be traced to when they increased healing earlier this year. It rewarded players to stack damage with high health, allowing them to absorb more damage than makes logical sense.

xFocused

ninjagank wrote: »

Elendir2am wrote: »

I think that everyone want to be super killer, who killing one shot anything what moves. All pesky tanks should be ban from Cyrodiil, only squishy characters should be involved.

It's almost as if there's a giant middle ground in there we should strive for. There's nothing wrong with tanks in pvp. I'm assuming you enjoy the current trend in pvp. You might consider that you need people to play with and against, and constant stalemates and endless kiting is a good way to make people log off.

There are a few sets that are unfortunately enabling most of the issues in cyro. I'm not saying the sets need to be nerfed but it's hard to not see balorgs, rallying cry and maras as carrying these set ups.

Most of the issues could be solved by decreasing healing and damage in battle spirit. All of this can be traced to when they increased healing earlier this year. It rewarded players to stack damage with high health, allowing them to absorb more damage than makes logical sense.

Yep. no one's saying there shouldn't be tanks in Cyro but when just about everyone is playing as unkillable, mistforming tank, it's going to push players away.

Elendir2am

I didn't meet anyone unkillable, because of high tankiness. High resistance, health, block mitigation can get you only in limited way to survability. It is high mobility with some tankines, what make unkilable character, but it can be high mobility + invisibility, or high mobility + insane selfheal.

You mentioned mist form. I saw mistform character (repeatedly) get easily inside keep through death zone and act as unkillable troll, until I stunned them. Than, their healt go fast down. So it wasnt tankines, but clasic old mobility and LoS.

I play as "slow tank" and I can assure you, that I die easily if swarmed by group of people, yet I can withstand a lot of damage if it is battle of armies and I hold front line.

But than, half of my gear is from basic game, rest is from years old dungeon. Except Death Dealer's Fete, which is "newest". So, maby some insane tank gear is there. But I haven't seen anyone do a better job as a frontline bruiser so I could learn from them. That's why I have some doubts about it.

martinhpb16_ESO

Elendir2am wrote: »

I think that everyone want to be super killer, who killing one shot anything what moves. All pesky tanks should be ban from Cyrodiil, only squishy characters should be involved.

I'd suggest that there is a median range between 'super killer' and 'un-killable' that most people would probably be happy with.

Also the old dynamic 'rock, scissor, paper' / strong in once thing, compromise in another pvp we used to have has been replaced with a mono-culture approach, taking away the 'spice of life' that made ESO pvp vibrant.

martinhpb16_ESO

Elendir2am wrote: »

I didn't meet anyone unkillable, because of high tankiness. High resistance, health, block mitigation can get you only in limited way to survability. It is high mobility with some tankines, what make unkilable character, but it can be high mobility + invisibility, or high mobility + insane selfheal.

You mentioned mist form. I saw mistform character (repeatedly) get easily inside keep through death zone and act as unkillable troll, until I stunned them. Than, their healt go fast down. So it wasnt tankines, but clasic old mobility and LoS.

I play as "slow tank" and I can assure you, that I die easily if swarmed by group of people, yet I can withstand a lot of damage if it is battle of armies and I hold front line.

But than, half of my gear is from basic game, rest is from years old dungeon. Except Death Dealer's Fete, which is "newest". So, maby some insane tank gear is there. But I haven't seen anyone do a better job as a frontline bruiser so I could learn from them. That's why I have some doubts about it.

Then you my friend are not part of the problem

Dem_kitkats1

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Elendir2am wrote: »

I think that everyone want to be super killer, who killing one shot anything what moves. All pesky tanks should be ban from Cyrodiil, only squishy characters should be involved.

I'd suggest that there is a median range between 'super killer' and 'un-killable' that most people would probably be happy with.

Also the old dynamic 'rock, scissor, paper' / strong in once thing, compromise in another pvp we used to have has been replaced with a mono-culture approach, taking away the 'spice of life' that made ESO pvp vibrant.

Exactly. Actual tanks are fine, as they do make sacrifices to fulfill their role. Overly tanky DDs with access to so much mitigation and mobility, without sacrifice to their own damage and self healing are the problem. That's been a problem since I've started playing, and now add lowered damage across the board, and this stale meta has gotten worse. I can understand why players would choose this route, as simply outlasting other players is more effective than sacrificing mitigation for slightly more damage. Players need to start having to make choices and sacrifices to put some viable build and class diversity back into the game.

Holycannoli

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Elendir2am wrote: »

I think that everyone want to be super killer, who killing one shot anything what moves. All pesky tanks should be ban from Cyrodiil, only squishy characters should be involved.

I'd suggest that there is a median range between 'super killer' and 'un-killable' that most people would probably be happy with.

Also the old dynamic 'rock, scissor, paper' / strong in once thing, compromise in another pvp we used to have has been replaced with a mono-culture approach, taking away the 'spice of life' that made ESO pvp vibrant.

I agree. They can start by splitting up resistances into specific resistances we have to choose between - fire, cold, lightning and physical, poison, disease instead of spell and weapon that care of it all. Strong resists vs some, not so strong resists vs others. It should be all about compromise. You might have a set that's good vs fire but not good vs cold, or good vs poison but doesn't buff other resistances.

Then do away with Mara's Balm. Nerf it to uselessness like Nocturnal's Ploy.

Then un-nerf DoTs.

PvP is so much more fun when the meta isn't tankiness.

biminirwb17_ESO

I usually play bow ganker and have reached GO on that character. I am good at finding squishy targets so I always check players HP.

Today I was playing in NA GH PC and was fighting a "tank group" who were brute forcing keeps. The lowest HP in the group was 36k the rest were all over 40k some almost hitting 60k they only did damage with an ulti dump but could stand in oils and eventually bored the defenders to death.

Add the 5 RR and the S@B ultimate I would have to burst one of them for over 150k to maybe get them in execute range.

So wait for them to leave and watch them sit in a resource tower is the only solution.

DrSlaughtr

biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »

I usually play bow ganker and have reached GO on that character. I am good at finding squishy targets so I always check players HP.

Today I was playing in NA GH PC and was fighting a "tank group" who were brute forcing keeps. The lowest HP in the group was 36k the rest were all over 40k some almost hitting 60k they only did damage with an ulti dump but could stand in oils and eventually bored the defenders to death.

Add the 5 RR and the S@B ultimate I would have to burst one of them for over 150k to maybe get them in execute range.

So wait for them to leave and watch them sit in a resource tower is the only solution.

Par the course on XB. It's sad that this is what it's come to.

xylena_lazarow

I lost interest during U35 and have not played in over a month. Most of the "fun" instant hit damage sources have been nerfed into the ground. There's only a small handful of players willing to git gud at cast times and travel delays. Evenly matched fights drag on forever. Waste time waiting for ult, dump your combo, watch each other heal to full, repeat ad nauseum. Somehow it's still also relatively high APM and low margin of error despite being so tanky, a recipe for the some of the most sweaty unfun PvP I've ever had the misfortune of trying.

biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »

I am good at finding squishy targets so I always check players HP... The lowest HP in the group was 36k the rest were all over 40k some almost hitting 60k they only did damage with an ulti dump but could stand in oils and eventually bored the defenders to death. Add the 5 RR and the S@B ultimate I would have to burst one of them for over 150k to maybe get them in execute range.

Yea it's sad that one basically isn't getting kills unless they specifically seek out weaker targets, which compounds other problems. Before I left, one of the "competitive" ball groups was running minimum 40k hp, 9 healer comp, full Snow Treaders, and full Immovable + Potion Cooldown, meaning they were literally 100% CC immune on top of their heal stacks that take millions (?) of burst damage to even threaten. I want the devs to fight this group.

DrSlaughtr

Elder Stalemates Online.

SaffronCitrusflower

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

I lost interest during U35 and have not played in over a month. Most of the "fun" instant hit damage sources have been nerfed into the ground. There's only a small handful of players willing to git gud at cast times and travel delays. Evenly matched fights drag on forever. Waste time waiting for ult, dump your combo, watch each other heal to full, repeat ad nauseum. Somehow it's still also relatively high APM and low margin of error despite being so tanky, a recipe for the some of the most sweaty unfun PvP I've ever had the misfortune of trying.

biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »

I am good at finding squishy targets so I always check players HP... The lowest HP in the group was 36k the rest were all over 40k some almost hitting 60k they only did damage with an ulti dump but could stand in oils and eventually bored the defenders to death. Add the 5 RR and the S@B ultimate I would have to burst one of them for over 150k to maybe get them in execute range.

Yea it's sad that one basically isn't getting kills unless they specifically seek out weaker targets, which compounds other problems. Before I left, one of the "competitive" ball groups was running minimum 40k hp, 9 healer comp, full Snow Treaders, and full Immovable + Potion Cooldown, meaning they were literally 100% CC immune on top of their heal stacks that take millions (?) of burst damage to even threaten. I want the devs to fight this group.

Nice to see your still checking in and offering reasonable commentary. Missing you in game, but totally understand why.

Rohamad_Ali

ninjagank wrote: »

Elder Stalemates Online.

DrSlaughtr

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

ninjagank wrote: »

Elder Stalemates Online.

Accurate.

JerBearESO

yeah the eternal stalemate is extremely bleh. i don't want the burst first meta either though. it seems we flip flop between ONLY those two metas....

we need a solution that allows for tanky playstyles while also preventing eternal stalemate. like, you should wear down over time somehow no matter your build

MEBengalsFan2001

[snip]

Add specific debuffs based on the role selected in PVP zones would help reduce the tank meta.

[Edited for Real World Politics]

afkpro

gonna be like this until the pre-patch for the next 2023 year long adventure...so february? march?

cyro balance is too far gone. it will never be good lmao.

BlakMarket

They need to nerf undeath passive in Vamp skill line and 20% healing bonus near keeps/rss for starters, but here's the reality devs dont pvp enough or at all - hence why changes to pvp are either one extreme or the other and always feel out of touch.

ZOS needs to communicate with end game players/content creators who are years in and play almost daily for example React Slower, his opinions are unbiased/calculated & well adjusted each patch for anything unbalanced and are for the greater good/health of PVP. They all receive real-time feedback in their chat from many players also.

Another thing to look at is, why do healing set sets stack and burst sets no longer stack?

But here's the harsh reality, ZOS has signed out of ESO the latest patch is case in point they are on cruise control & at this point the game seems it will never go in the direction we have been screaming for.

Kory

BlakMarket wrote: »

They need to nerf undeath passive in Vamp skill line and 20% healing bonus near keeps/rss for starters, but here's the reality devs dont pvp enough or at all - hence why changes to pvp are either one extreme or the other and always feel out of touch.

ZOS needs to communicate with end game players/content creators who are years in and play almost daily for example React Slower, his opinions are unbiased/calculated & well adjusted each patch for anything unbalanced and are for the greater good/health of PVP. They all receive real-time feedback in their chat from many players also.

Another thing to look at is, why do healing set sets stack and burst sets no longer stack?

But here's the harsh reality, ZOS has signed out of ESO the latest patch is case in point they are on cruise control & at this point the game seems it will never go in the direction we have been screaming for.

The feedback they get is absolutely chaotic and contradictory. The updates represent this in my opinion. I agree they should get in the mix of pvp a lot more if they do at all. The devs can develop a perspective of their own, and can better see the feedback for what it is using their own experiences along with the viewpoints of players.

YandereGirlfriend

Kory wrote: »

BlakMarket wrote: »

They need to nerf undeath passive in Vamp skill line and 20% healing bonus near keeps/rss for starters, but here's the reality devs dont pvp enough or at all - hence why changes to pvp are either one extreme or the other and always feel out of touch.

ZOS needs to communicate with end game players/content creators who are years in and play almost daily for example React Slower, his opinions are unbiased/calculated & well adjusted each patch for anything unbalanced and are for the greater good/health of PVP. They all receive real-time feedback in their chat from many players also.

Another thing to look at is, why do healing set sets stack and burst sets no longer stack?

But here's the harsh reality, ZOS has signed out of ESO the latest patch is case in point they are on cruise control & at this point the game seems it will never go in the direction we have been screaming for.

The feedback they get is absolutely chaotic and contradictory. The updates represent this in my opinion. I agree they should get in the mix of pvp a lot more if they do at all. The devs can develop a perspective of their own, and can better see the feedback for what it is using their own experiences along with the viewpoints of players.

As with PvE balance threads, it's pretty easily to identify when someone knows what they are talking about (and can back it up with solid arguments and information) when asking for an adjustment versus someone who does not (these are the typical zero-context rants that are always popular). I would hope that the devs have the same ability to discern between the two.

OBJnoob

It would seem they dont... Kinda the basis of this discussion. And under those presumptions I think the chaotic and contradictory feedback is a fair thing to point out. For every person that thinks nightblades are overpowered there's someone else who thinks they are trash.

fizzylu

DrSlaughtr wrote: »

Elder Stalemates Online.

lol accurate. I seem to hear more and more "I came across this player, but neither of us would die so we decided to give up and walked our separate ways" stories as the days go by.

xylena_lazarow

OBJnoob wrote: »

For every person that thinks nightblades are overpowered there's someone else who thinks they are trash.

Take a broken musical instrument with sticky unresponsive keys. The virtuoso can still make it sound okay, but the average musician will sound like total garbage on it. Playing NB these days demands you master cast times and cast delays that do to the NB class what broken sticky unresponsive keys do to a musical instrument. Virtuosos like React may still be able to make it work, but the average NB player? Yea you see where this is going now. However, this does not invalidate the feedback of average or weak players, who deserve a chance to master the class without having to play a broken instrument.

There's a lot of nuance to analyzing player feedback and data, I feel the game has fallen short here for many years.

OBJnoob

Yes that's what I said lol. Just not so eloquently.