Build diversity - do we have it?

Syiccal

So with hybridization has build diversity gone out the window, every stam and mag class running pretty much the same builds now or am I wrong.
Wretched/rally cry/sea serpent's/ balorgs or bloodspawn

ll_Rev

no we don't, I came back after 3 years and I was suprised at how everyone is running the same 5 or so sets on all specs/classes.

Amerises

I run the same setup for stam or mag with the exception of weights, which I know a lot of people don’t even do that and just keep it 1/3/3 and call it a day on any class or spec

taugrim

Eh, there are plenty of PVP builds that are not meta that are quite effective. I'm running one now.

I love hybridization, it allows me to slot whatever abilities I want, not what the devs have allocated to Stamina.

Metemsycosis

Is there ever? Be honest
I like that some of the same sets are used from patch to patch because at end game I just wanna play game not circle a wheel I have exactly zero interest in circling.

fred4

Not playing much PvP right now, but I see quite a bit of diversity on PC EU. To some degree, I think that may be due to people not moving on from their old setups. I see magsorcs with conventional playstyles that include Streak, Meteor and shielding. I see pure stamsorcs. I see hybrids using Crushing Shock on more stamsorc-like setups. I've talked to a nightblade doing fine with old sets, e.g. New Moon, Clever, Balorgh, Markyn. I've seen other (bow) nightblades with poison setups and Kjalnar.

Of the sets you mentioned, I find it hard to get away from Rallying Cry as a solo player, but I fail to see the reasoning around Sea Serpent that people use to justify that set's OPness. How many actually use it? Movement means a lot to me. People say you can claw back movement with Swift, CP, and so on, but IMO the average PvPer is not sitting at 0% movement buff. You're competing with players that have +10% to +30% as standard (in combat, in CP) before we even get to the outliers. I find this noticeable on melee templar, for example. If I can't at least match the movement speed of my target, they can and will frequently outrange me. I think Sea Serpent may be meta for people who are already used to a slow playstyle, perhaps a DK who lets people come to them and leaps to execute, or even a nightblade that relies more on Shadow Image than speed, but it's not for everyone.

Wretched is a good set, but one I can take or leave. There are other options. Mara, even just on the back bar. Trickery. Clever, for some. Even sets you may have never heard of in meta circles, such as Steadfast's Mettle. The latter helps create medium armor builds that have both low dodge roll cost and can turtle with low block cost.

To Balorgh and Bloodspawn I would add Selene and Zoal at the very least. Selene, because I see it. Zoal, because I love it myself. In terms of mythics, I think Markyn and Wild Hunt are still obvious options. I know what I'm saying doesn't add huge variety and most of it is meta, but these are examples I would personally use.

I like playing around with off-meta stuff, though. Maybe that doesn't make me a typical player, or at least not a competitive one (I am not). On the other hand there are IMO two components that need to come together, before something becomes meta: It has to be (marginally) OP or universally useful (Markyn, Rallying Cry) and it has to be promoted by someone with sufficient clout or otherwise go viral in the community. The two of those things do not necessarily go hand in hand. If you buildcraft yourself you may do well with off-meta setups. Not everyone talks about what they run. Perhaps more importantly people form habits. What works for them is usually coloured by their playstyle. Some diversity at least comes from that.

xDeusEJRx

No we don't. There's the illusion that build diversity exists. But that's not practiced in actuality. There's really a 30 set max meta that people don't stray away from and very rarely do people run anything outside the top 30ish sets.

Just because people have access to it doesn't mean it's practiced. People will always jump to the easiest to play build, which was evident pretty much all of 2021 and 2022.

Most PVP patches the past 2 years have been heavily dictated by what's the strongest proc available at the time. Like dark convergence, hrothgar, plaguebreak, caluurions, Mara's balm, Oakensoul, Rallying cry, etc.

And it's in every avenue of PVP, Cyrodiil, IC, Battlegrounds, except for Ravenwatch

Skoomah

There’s a lot of build diversity that is possible but most people find it easier to follow the crowd and play whatever everyone else is playing.

WeylandLabs

Sorc is just in a really bad place right now I'd say Top 2 in terms of all time nerfs. They only made it viable for PvE but really lacks in PvP.

Nobody is playing it and the people that are ? They die hards sorc class players...

CameraBeardThePirate

There are 2 aspects of build diversity: skill diversity and set diversity. Hybridization may have slightly hurt skill diversity - some morphs are just better than others on all builds, and if both morphs scale the same then why not use the "better morph"? However, I think Hybridization helped set diversity. For example, I'm running Unleashed Ritualist this patch. The set has 3 lines of max magicka, meaning to be stack the most damage I need to put points into mag. However, I'm also running bombard. Because of Hybridization, i can run bombard with a max mag set like Ritualist and still have plenty of damage on stam abilities like Bombard.

DrSlaughtr

Build diversity is questionable, but the funny thing is PVP has broken down into two groups, it seems.

Group 1: Brawl tanks with massive heals that hit like pool noodles but can't be killed 1v1

Group 2: People who just want to play their damage dealers but ZOS said no. There's only five of us. We meet on Wednesdays at the old church.

Dem_kitkats1

In terms of skills, I would say that there's not much diversity within the classes. More than half of skill lines and morphs are ineffective, therefore not used. Leading to the majority of players using the same spammables and buff skills.

Considering how many sets are in the game that are unused because you can't just slap on whatever without hours of farming, testing, and gold to make them effective, I would say diversity is not all that high. Sure, people can find ways to incorporate sets that are "off meta", but that's usually in conjunction with sets and items that are. Is having to include certain items (*cough* mythics) a way of bringing diversification into the game? IMO not really.

Metas are also partially dictated by the most effective way of playing, and at the moment mitigation and healing are overly effective. You squash diversity when you make countering playstyles significantly more difficult to come by and less impactful, despite what you sacrifice to achieve them. So when it comes to different playstyles, which leads to build diversity, the game is lacking in that as well.

CompM4s

I think there is plenty of build diversity, or atleast the ability to. Most just copy/paste alcast though

ATomiX69

Hybridisation and mythics were a mistake.

mmtaniac

Yup Mara's Balm everywhere.

kapachia

ATomiX69 wrote: »

Hybridisation and mythics were a mistake.

Agree. Why bother with separate stamina and magicka attributes? Why not just simplify into health and energy (combining stamina and magicka).

jtm1018

No, nothing of the like.
Almost everybody follows a meta set/build.
Mandatory if you want to get achievements on dungeons and trials run.
Even pvp has meta sets and builds players follow.
And if you dont follow the meta build, well goodluck with that.

Caribou77

Not in PVP.

Not even close.

Agree with jtm^^

PVP is 90% meta-humpers due to no class balance or build diversity.

Jaimeh

In PvE diversity in DD builds has shrunk even more to the point that the only thing barely changing between specs is the choice of spammable.