Monetization gone too far? :(

Ackadian

Lengthy Rant Parental Advisory

I've been debating with myself over the last couple of days about whether to write this or not, and I think I'll just give it a shot. Think of it as a tired review. Or a rant. Or a filthy casual complaining. Take it as you will. I only want to preface this by saying that I do not write any of this out out of hate. Except the Crown Store section.

I'm going to start by giving the Devil his due, with the positives. ESO is by far one of the most immersive MMORPGs I have ever played. The amount of attention to detail and that of condensed quality content in each zone, both vanilla and DLC, is astounding. The consistent voice acting, the level design, the delves and public dungeons, the gathering system, the bards and the inns, the lore books, the characters, they all put most other MMOs to shame. Even Final Fantasy 14, which is my personal favorite MMO doesn't hold up to the level of immersion that ESO has, despite the quality of its story. The cat girls running around in maid outfits and the mechanical feel of the vast majority of areas certainly don't help its case.

The quality of the stories in DLC zones has only gotten better over the years, if perhaps despite the constant looming threat of world-ending proportions that somewhat loses its impact after a few times. The graphical fidelity has gotten a lot better. The lighting and the color palette have always confounded me with how gorgeous they are in ESO. I can easily jump into the game for hours on end and feel like I'm playing a very, very good single-player RPG. I haven't felt this connected with an MMO in a very, very long time.

This being said, however, I'll just jump to the real reason for writing this. A few days ago two things came as news to me that were the "cherry on top", if you will. I had discovered how the companion system locks you out of your companions on separate characters despite the differentiation between how content is accessed through ESO+ and individual DLC purchases. I will get to this later. I also stumbled upon a video of the new gathering animations they plan to monetize through even more loot boxes, which made me laugh uncontrollably for several minutes to hide the massive amount of cringe causing my soul to unravel painfully within me.

The Number of DLC packs.

A few years ago, purchasing a DLC gave you access to either one or two extra story zones like Wrothgar and Vvardenfell, or gave you access to one of the niche guild systems of the Dark Brotherhood and the Thieves' Guild. That is fine. The base game is massive in itself and, while the story content in it isn't quite as well-done as the one in the aforementioned areas, I don't think many people batted an eye because of it. Years passed though, and the amount of DLC zones has increased enormously. I believe that the amount of DLC content that ESO has today is comparable to the amount of its vanilla content. Dungeons were also launched as a separate short story, a few cool achievements and maybe a fancy hat to unlock. That is FINE.

I believe my issues began after Summerset. The fact that the Clockwork City was a separate DLC from Summerset that was also interconnected with Vvardenfell and the Summerset chapter itself in an overarching story didn't sit quite right with me and with the fact that I had to spend an extra buck on it, despite its significantly smaller size. Being a lore geek also didn't help since my OCD would have gone nuts if I hadn't completed CC as well for the continuity aspect, but that's just me. Again, all that was (somewhat) fine. Perhaps I'm being a bit unreasonable.

Once Elsweyr launched however, a plethora of fragmented "optional" DLC content began to launch with it. Dungeon DLCs, a separate Chapter, a small Zone DLC, more dungeons. Today we have Summerset, Elsweyr, Greymoor, Blackwood and High Isle. Each of these is fragmented into its own chapter, its own interconnected dungeons, its own 'optional' smaller zone DLC that concludes the overarching story, and even more dungeons in between. It's easy, for me at least, to see that what was optional a long while ago has been turned into an unnecessarily lengthy amalgamation of various avenues for monetization. This is particularly harsh when you realize that these 'optional' additions to the game come with some of the more polished group content there is, and with some of the better sets of gear you can collect through pure gameplay, instead of sitting on an external website to hunt the pieces off various Guild Traders.

DC Universe is the prime example of this kind of content fragmentation. There is a point at which enough content gets added to a game where it becomes a tangled web of what's what, at which the question of which content is more 'worth it' arises, and at which you might as well just grab a subscription and spare yourself the hassle. And even that is fine. My biggest problem, and one I've had with most MMORPGs, is when the base game is a separate purchase, when there is an 'optional' subscription that becomes less optional over the years as more premium content gets added to the game (and don't even get me started on the crafting bag, that's just low hanging fruit), and when, on top of that, the game also launches expansions every year that cost as much as a triple-A RPG which get added next year to the optional subscription as well to make space for the new one, which I have always been against because it feels like a metaphorical slap in the face for anybody who actually does purchase the Chapter at full price.

I think it's fair to say that all the optional content present in ESO today is a lot less optional than it was years ago, and combined with how fragmented it is and with the different ways of purchasing it, it raises the question of "well, is ESO a buy-to-play game with extra story, or is it a monthly subscription MMO"? FFXIV is subscription based with an initial purchase that also acts as a first-month sub, and sells its expansions somewhat yearly for a consistent price and for a consistent amount of content without fragmenting it. WoW works on the same principle. Guild Wars 2 sells its expansions separately but doesn't have a monthly sub, and makes its money off a plethora of directly purchasable cosmetics. ZOS has been very careful to blur the line between the two approaches and treads very lightly along them so that you can't really make a case for either, but while both are somehow true, which brings me to my next point.

The New Companion System

I think it's necessary to say before I go any further, and perhaps I should have mentioned this earlier, that I have only recently got back into the game, about more than a month ago. I'm not a new player by any means, I just have a tendency to come and go between MMOs and cycle between them regularly. As I've mentioned in the first section, I have discovered a while ago the way the companion system works. You go do a quest, you unlock him or her in your collections, and summon them without any mention of you having done the mission together. It's a very cool addition, though it feels a little impersonal due to how they don't mention the little adventure you've had not so long ago, as if you've just bought a mercenary rather than bonded with a fellow adventurer.

Anyway, since I'm playing exclusively on ESO+, I was hyped to get to have some companions to use even in case I return to the game one day without a sub. Ah - but...yeah. As it turns out, the companions unlock in the same manner as you unlock a pet, a collectible or a mount, but they are not usable in the same manner as a pet, a collectible or a mount. You must unlock each individual companion on each individual character that you have. I was saddened by this, because it felt to me like an unnecessary gatekeeping mechanism for a very niche addition to the game due to how the payment model of ESO and all of its DLCs works. What made it worse (if perhaps a bit insulting as a consumer) was the options one has to work around this. You can buy ESO+ and just play without those restrictions for as long as you want, and accept the fact that at some point in the future there may come a time where, for one reason or another, you won't be able to use a companion on one of your new characters. Or you can simply buy that one Chapter separately despite not purchasing the others, for one ten minute quest to unlock something you already own once more, on top of the game also showing that companion as being already unlocked on that new character. This creates another problem further down the line, because if one chooses to go for the separate purchase approach then there is no way to guarantee a consistent ownership of your companions from all the other future Chapters and zone DLCs that might come due to the extreme fragmentation I've mentioned above. So the question is raised again: is the monthly subscription optional or is it not after all? I don't have to unlock a pet, or a house, or a mount on every character. Why must I do so for a companion?

On a different note, I also gave some thought to the fact that I'm simply complaining about, like I said, a very niche addition to the game. You could argue that it's not a needed mechanic at all, and it is of little use other than having a dress-up mannequin that follows you around. But then the thought of recent balance changes and the overall complaint I've read in various places came to mind, that of "they're trying to make the open world combat take longer on purpose". Now don't get me wrong, I believe ESO has only two difficulty levels: trivial and hardcore, but I find it difficult to not be at least a bit suspicious of why some nerfs are being done, if not to make space for an additional source of DPS in the open world, since group content is not so easily affected to the same extent. On top of that, there is also the thought of "are companions really needed if the game is this easy in the first place?". You can see where my skepticism comes from.

It's a combination of slightly increased artificial difficulty in certain bits of content by nerfing the players consistently, and a very bizarre and dodgy gatekeeping mechanism put in place to limit your access to that which might be "needed" for things like soloing World Bosses and some of the more accessible Dungeons, a.k.a the companions themselves. It feels like composing your own song and being asked to pay to listen to it. Speaking of difficulty...

The Group Finder Structure and the Difficulty Curve

I don't think its controversial to say that anything but the DLC veteran content in ESO is completely trivial. The game enforces this strange equality-of-outcome approach to its open world content, to the point that a vast majority of it is insultingly easy for anyone over 300CP. The game is only ever remotely 'difficult' to new players who have not yet unlocked their Champion Points system. This falls into a very strange relationship with how endgame content is accessed. On one hand, the non-DLC dungeons, both veteran and non-veteran, are extremely easy, to the point where the Normal Difficulty ones are no more than easily solo-able glorified Delves. On the other hand, the Normal Difficulty DLC Dungeons are as difficult as a non-DLC Veteran, while the Veteran DLC Dungeons are in a league of their own, requiring properly optimized builds and proper gear sets to tackle reasonably. Though for some reason they are combined under the same queues for the Daily Reward. This system worked years ago when the only difficult dungeons placed under the same queue as non-DLC ones were those from the Mazzatun DLC, Dragon Bones and Blood of the Reach and the chances of one of them popping was significantly lower. Today this creates some issues.

A new player, assuming ownership of ESO+ for the sake of this argument, put in a Normal or Veteran Non-DLC Dungeon will have an awful time trying to touch an enemy or a boss before the other two or three likely experienced players in the group have already managed to obliterate the entire bloodline and all its future generations of poor tiny spiders guarding the Whisperer with one rotation. This makes the game appear outdated and cheap and the power creep significant, and makes for one of those "just run through bro" situations which I'm confident a good number of people have experienced a few times in their gamer lives.

By the same approach, a new player dropped in a Normal or Veteran DLC Dungeon will likely hold the entire group back due to them not having a properly developed build at that point. This inevitably leads to a waste of people's time, to harsh bans and toxicity and possibly a messed up incomplete Daily Pledge for whoever else happens to get dropped in at the wrong place and time.

I think there are enough DLC dungeons at this point to say that they number the same as what the entire roster was a few years ago, while the chances of one of the harder Dungeons popping is significantly increased. Just a week ago I happened to get Earthen Root Conclave for my Veteran, and due to the Tank being low CP and one of the DPSs dying constantly, we just wiped once at the first boss and everyone left without a word. This is all very unpleasant. Endgame content should be a challenging and (if possible) constant experience, not a daily lucky wheel of "I hope everyone is 900CP+ this time in CASE we get the hard stuff!".

Aside from the discrepancy of the difficulty of the content put under the same queue, there is also something to be said about the process of gearing up itself that a new player must go through to be able to do well in the 'proper' content. Like I said, ESO is either trivial or hardcore, and the tedious slog that everyone must go through to farm the gear sets they need by spending days or weeks running through the dumbfoundingly easy Normal Dungeons just so they can hope to stand a chance in the content that's actually fun and groups of enemies can't be one-shot by a guy spamming Whirlwind is unacceptable. Not to even mention that the actual difficulty of anything BUT the 'proper' endgame content does absolutely nothing to prepare a player for the mechanics they might encounter later. Normal Dungeons may give you the gear but they won't give you the experience, and I think this is a problem that's gotten out of hand.

As for the Difficulty Curve of the game overall, I wish the devs could introduce something like a World Tier system, tied to the player's CP level. I'm not going to pretend I know how they'd do that, but I think it would be very nice if they somehow did. I would love to be able to play within a WT where my story bosses were at least Normal Dungeon difficulty with actual damage that can kill me. As of right now, I doubt there's a single thing in ESO's open world that can actually kill me, and I find it rather sad that some devs spend so much time making animations for new enemies in newer DLCs just so that players can shoot them with a fireball out of a glowing stick and not see any of them. I have to purposely unsummon my Warden's Bear and get rid of my companion whenever I get to a boss just so I can run around and hope they do some cool stuff. It kills immersion like nothing else I've ever seen, and I think it's a massive waste of potential and a bit insulting to the animation team.

The Crown Store Content (or lack thereof???)

Dresses. Plenty of dresses. ESO's Crown Store can be easily described as a Drag Queen's paradise. I've been looking for something, anything to spend my ESO+ monthly Crowns on and I simply cannot find anything worth it aside from DLCs, and I've already mentioned the gripes I have with that. The outfits are all either some ugly Argonian attire or a dress. The mounts are so unbearably 'normal' that it's fascinating to me that they are in fact Cash Shop content and not obtainable in-game. The latest "black horse with white mane" they added recently didn't make things better with how much of a spit in the face it felt like. The dyes feel like atrocious random color combinations. The Skyshards, Skill Lines, Convenience Item Packs, Name and Race Changes are such on the nose new player bait that I have difficulty being as respectful as I am right now.

I'd be willfully naive not to acknowledge how all this is intended so that people buy more Crown Crates. I don't think there's anything more to that. There is no complex issue here. Just loot boxes. I believe the devs are not trying to hide this fact anymore either, especially with how casually they've presented the new and exciting 'bird pick flower' animation toggle that may find its way inside a loot box or two. It still makes me laugh just thinking about it. The Crown Store is drier than the Alik'r and the party is being held under lock and key in a purple glowing cave (you know what I mean).

I want to also add something about the Houses and the Housing System in general, since it's directly related to Crowns. Houses are incredibly expensive. Most of the ones worth buying cost almost as much as a whole triple A trilogy. On top of that, the Housing System itself is very gatekeep-y, to the point that it was one of the things that made me as mad as the whole companion thing. Housing Items vendors do not sell the most basic items. You cannot buy a stupid table and two chairs for a default little shoe box in the middle of a swamp without either raising your crafting level and finding designs yourself or by hunting the items you want through, again, an external website that was made BY THE COMMUNITY. There is certainly something to be said about how the community seems to care more about the game's ease-of-access than the devs, clearly shown by the amount of add-ons there are and the work put into the TTC.

If you so choose to not engage with either ways of purchasing or crafting housing items, there is also the third option, the Crown Shop! [snip] You can buy absolutely every housing item in the game with Crowns, except for some exclusive ones from achievements and scrying. With Crowns. Call me unreasonable but, as I understand it, a lot of work goes into designing the 3D assets that populate an MMORPG. The fancy white marble pillars from Summerset take time and resources on the part of the devs to build, that much is obvious. What fails to make sense to me is why, despite already having paid through one means or another for that content, must one spend external currency again on those very same assets for which the player does the placing themselves inside a separate private instance? And why Crowns? What exactly decides the value of an in-game housing item that has already been designed and paid for in the past? It's not like you can make an argument about immersion and how "well, some high elf spent a lot of time building this, so it's expensive!" because we're not spending gold on the items. We're spending Crowns, [snip] [snip] Not even DC Universe or SWTOR sell basic housing items on their Cash Shops, only exclusive items and occasional event ones. [snip] A Breton Table with 4 fancy corners that looks identical to one without the 4 fancy corners is 410 Crowns. For a table. A table that would otherwise cost about 30.000 gold, or that is obtainable with a certain high combination of three different crafting skill trees to make yourself.


Overall, I think that ESO is trying to be a bit of everything and, in turn, sacrifices everything. It wants to be a monthly-subscription MMORPG, but it also wants to be buy-to-play. It wants the subscription to be optional, but it makes the game impossibly tedious with some of its systems plain impossible without it (such as crafting). It gives people ways to unlock content and then finds ways to lock it away or make it harder to access in exchange for more money. It wants to be trivial and hardcore at the same time with no in between. It wants people to be prepared for endgame content without giving them something to prepare with for that content. [snip]

I love ESO, and I find myself always coming back to it, every time with some new Chapter and a few more of the well-written characters that people love. The quality of the new content itself is exceptional, that is without a doubt. The style motif additions just keep getting better (please let me hide my shoulder pads ZOS!). [snip] There are ways to be more transparent and fair to your community without fragmenting a game's system and trying to monetize all of them separately as much as you can. I'm happy the game endures, but I'm sad by how it endures. Thank you.

TL;DR: Game gud, maybe too easy. [snip]
[edited for bashing]

Kiralyn2000

Not going to comment on most of that, but...

Dresses. Plenty of dresses. ESO's Crown Store can be easily described as a Drag Queen's paradise. I've been looking for something, anything to spend my ESO+ monthly Crowns on and I simply cannot find anything worth it aside from DLCs,

Sooooo, why not buy the DLC that had companions in it, so that if you stop subbing, you'll be able to unlock Companions on your newer characters? That seemed to be a big chunk of your issues here. Just a thought. /shrug

The mounts are so unbearably 'normal' that it's fascinating to me that they are in fact Cash Shop content and not obtainable in-game. The latest "black horse with white mane" they added recently didn't make things better with how much of a spit in the face it felt like.

Heh, interesting. I find all the "non-normal" mounts to be an utter turn-off. So them being included in crown crates - as the Main Big Prize, even! - is a huge argument against ever wasting crowns on those things. The only mount I ever bought (back in 2017?) was... a plain black horse with a white mane, 700 Cr. It's the only mount all but one of my characters has ever used.

(the other character is my ice-themed Sorc, with a white/blue dress, ice skin, pale hair, and a white/ice Indrik. The only event mount I bothered unlocking. I also have three 'fancy' mounts from free Crown Crates - lava bear, some cat or other, etc. Never ridden them.)

Kingsindarkness

[snip]

People act like the developers sit around and see how much profit they can wring out as if they actually get a cut.


Marketing and the Board of directors decide that....but it's easier to scream at the coders I guess.


I love my job ...no one ever blames the research guy.

[edited to remove quote]

Ackadian

Kingsindarkness wrote: »

[snip]

People act like the developers sit around and see how much profit they can wring out as if they actually get a cut.


Marketing and the Board of directors decide that....but it's easier to scream at the coders I guess.


I love my job ...no one ever blames the research guy.

That is precisely what I meant, the Marketing Team. I had hoped I made it clear enough by praising the actual quality of the game's content as much as I did in comparison. I'll be sure to use more precise terminology next time

[edited to remove quote]

Carcamongus

During ESO's first years new content came out irregularly. Devs settled for two zone releases and two dungeon packs around 2017, when Morrowind was introduced. The yearly adventure theme came two years later with Elsweyr. Fragmented or not, we at least know what to expect.

I can't understand how having to unlock companions for each toon is a form of gatekeeping and what it has to do with ESO's payment model. Don't get me wrong, I also think once you unlock a companion, it's account-wide. However, their quests aren't particularly hard, so unlocking them for each toon is more of a pain in the posterior than gatekeeping.

Housing is mostly an endgame thing: you need to be a crafter with access to lots of materials and knowledge of countless furnishing plans. I do agree that it shouldn't be so hard to come by some items, such as mundane runes, and that houses have become too expensive, especially since most can't be bought with gold. Our money funds the game's development, but that doesn't mean buying a Summerset column on the crown store is paying for something for which we've already paid. Finally, if I remember correctly, some home furnishers do sell simple tables and chairs.

Luke_Flamesword

[snip] It's level of f2p game, but in this case you have to buy game and pay for eso+, if you want to play seriously (craft bag and housing double limits is something without I can't play) and every year you should pay for chapter seperately. So with subscription and chapters I pay a lot of cash, but still most of goodies is hidden behind crown store.

I pay a lot, but still have expensive loot boxes with ridicoulous chances for anything good, QoL features in crown store (assistants), very, very expensive houses, [snip] This year, I was really dissapointed with smaller chapter sold for full price but with less content than normal. There was no new house for free or game gold for whole year, but yet there was time and resources for new crown store cash grab. If next year will be the same or worse, than it will be my last year, sadly. I need to have some respect for my time and money.

[edited for bashing]

Monte_Cristo

Carcamongus wrote: »

I can't understand how having to unlock companions for each toon is a form of gatekeeping and what it has to do with ESO's payment model. Don't get me wrong, I also think once you unlock a companion, it's account-wide. However, their quests aren't particularly hard, so unlocking them for each toon is more of a pain in the posterior than gatekeeping.

Agree, sort of. People should stop thinking of companions as mounts or pets, and more as a skill line. You have to unlock Mages Guild/Fighters Guild/Antiquities/Psijic/Dark Brotherhood/etc on each toon, so why not the companions?

chessalavakia_ESO

When ESO releases a new chapter, they generally have a package you can buy that includes most of the prior chapters for around $20 more.

Aislinna

I don't find the developers to be greedy; I find ESO provides hours and hours of entertainment for a good price.

$ 50.00 ..... Yearly Chapter Upgrade Cost (Collector Edition, not on sale)
$180.00 ..... Yearly ESO+ Cost (most expensive per month cost)
$230.00 ..... Yearly Cost (Can be cheaper if you buy on sale)

$ 19.17 ..... Total Cost Per Month for a Year
$ 0.96 ..... Cost per Hour (20 Hours Playtime per Month)
$ 0.48 ..... Cost per Hour (40 Hours Playtime per Month)

An allotment of crowns is provided with ESO+.
All crown purchases are optional, spend what you can afford on what your think is worth it to you

Athyrium93

Aislinna wrote: »

$ 50.00 ..... Yearly Chapter Upgrade Cost (Collector Edition, not on sale)
$180.00 ..... Yearly ESO+ Cost (most expensive per month cost)
$230.00 ..... Yearly Cost (Can be cheaper if you buy on sale)

$ 19.17 ..... Total Cost Per Month for a Year
$ 0.96 ..... Cost per Hour (20 Hours Playtime per Month)
$ 0.48 ..... Cost per Hour (40 Hours Playtime per Month)

Seriously, in the scheme of basic entertainment ESO with sub and yearly chapter purchase is a steal.... if $15 a month is to much for you, but you go to the movies or eat out at a restaurant even once a month, you are paying significantly more for an hour or two of entertainment than ESO is for unlimited hours of fun durring the month.....

kargen27

"[snip] It's level of f2p game, but in this case you have to buy game and pay for eso+, if you want to play seriously (craft bag and housing double limits is something without I can't play) and every year you should pay for chapter seperately. So with subscription and chapters I pay a lot of cash, but still most of goodies is hidden behind crown store."
That is a choice you make. ZoS allows you and all other players to make that choice. Some chose not to subscribe and since they are still here that choice works for them. Other MMOs require a monthly subscription meaning less choice in what you want to spend.
Everything in the crown store is either cosmetic or a shortcut to content you have previously finished. Nothing there is needed for the game. Again ZoS gives you the choice to purchase or not. Either way there will be no impact on your game play.

[edited to remove quote]

ZOS_Hadeostry

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic.

Thank you for your understanding

Amottica

I will note that purchasing each DLC released in a year (4 DLCs) is notably less expensive than paying for the subscription on an annual basis which is the least costly sub plan. Being the first aspect of the OP is speaking to monetization of DLCs this is a required part of the discussion.

For someone who only plays ESO very once in a while then they may want to subscribe and not bother with buying DLCs. There is a point this makes more sense and in such a case the number of DLCs is irrelevant.

Not sure where this fragmented DLC issue is going, but I will point out some historic inaccuracies. That is all this next part is.

I do not recall a second zone that came with Wrothgar and Vvardenfell (which is Morrowind chapter). Outside of the four original DLCs being available in a bundle (which was not the case originally) Before they started selling chapters, they were still doing 4 DLCs a year, each sold separately. This means the DLC cadence did not change when chapters became a thing, and this was before Summerset, where the OP states a change occurred. So the only change that occurred when chapters became a thing is that they sold one of the zones separately and it would not become a DLC until a year later. They did an "added value" item with these chapters, which ran from a new class or guild to the new card game.

A number of the zone releases had a thread of a storyline that linked them, which included Morrowind, Clockwork City, and Summerset. After this Zenimax started the year-long storyline that ran through all four releases in a year.

As such nothing changed when OP suggests it did and this seems more if the first part of the OP is a complaint that Zenimax releases content four times a year then it is in fact not an issue of monetization gone too far because it is cheaper to buy the DLCs a year than to pay for a subscription for that year.

I think a regular cadence of new content is much better than the very slow release of content that games such as FF14 do.

I stopped midway through the companion system where the complaint was that we have to do a short quest to unlock the companion on each character we want that companion on. Considering the XP for each companion is account wide it is not much of a gate. I also did not see how this is an example of monetizaiton gone to far.

Sorry you are upset with the game. I hope you find one you enjoy.

Hotdog_23

Play ESO daily and buy all the chapters and have ESO+. See ESO as a good value overall for what I spend.

Know I will get hate for this, but I don’t see why if they are committed to the yearlong story which I think is a mistake. They should then sell the yearlong story in a package together. Or all 4 dungeons packs dungeons packs with mounts and pets, the chapter and 4th quarter DLC all in one purchase and quit piecemeal selling it.

Think as Monte_Cristo stated to look at the companions as a skill line is an interesting idea. Was thinking that the system of unlocking and doing the quest on each character as a holdout idea before AWA came to ESO. Wish that I only had to do it once on my account and not 18 times or once for each character I have. Think of it as a skill line is new way to look at it for me. Still wish I only had to do it and their story only once but “skill line” thinking makes it a little less of a grind in my head space.

Difficulty in the game is dependent on each individual person skill level and experience. Once you get past a certain level then overland/story is rather easy for most people but not for everyone I would believe. Again, dependent on each person individually.

The best idea I ever heard to fix this problem for experienced players is debuff food/drinks. Essentially it will take part of your recovery or % of your damage or combination of both. They could make several different foods/drinks for different levels of the debuff. When you decide to either do harder content all you need to do is eat/drink different food to get rid of the debuff. If ZOS would add this food to the game, it should not allow you to queue for activites if you are using the debuff food or drinks. If you want to form a group and do it fine but not as a pug group. Just my 2 cents.

Monetization is in just about every game released today. ESO is not the worse or the best when it comes to monetization.

Stay safe

Danikat

Ackadian wrote: »

The mounts are so unbearably 'normal' that it's fascinating to me that they are in fact Cash Shop content and not obtainable in-game. The latest "black horse with white mane" they added recently didn't make things better with how much of a spit in the face it felt like.

Other people have covered your other points, but I just wanted to mention this one because it jumped out at me. Firstly not only is the White Mane Horse not new, it's actually one of the oldest mounts in the crown store. It's been there since the system was first introduced and is pretty much the crown store equivalent of the brown horse you get at level 10.

Secondly and more importantly though I'm curious how you managed to find that one to get upset about but somehow missed the Auroran Warhorse - white with elaborate gold armour and the Nightmare Courser which is literally on fire when they're in the same section, and the White Mane is at the bottom. (Similarly equines are the 5th sub-category of mounts, in the middle of a list of more unusual animals, so you can't possibly have missed that there are many other options if a horse does not meet with your approval.)

Jaimeh

Ackadian wrote: »

Lengthy Rant Parental Advisory

The Crown Store Content (or lack thereof???)

The mounts are so unbearably 'normal' that it's fascinating to me that they are in fact Cash Shop content and not obtainable in-game. The latest "black horse with white mane" they added recently didn't make things better with how much of a spit in the face it felt like. The dyes feel like atrocious random color combinations. The Skyshards, Skill Lines, Convenience Item Packs, Name and Race Changes are such on the nose new player bait that I have difficulty being as respectful as I am right now.

I'd be willfully naive not to acknowledge how all this is intended so that people buy more Crown Crates. I don't think there's anything more to that. There is no complex issue here. Just loot boxes. I believe the devs are not trying to hide this fact anymore either, especially with how casually they've presented the new and exciting 'bird pick flower' animation toggle that may find its way inside a loot box or two. It still makes me laugh just thinking about it. The Crown Store is drier than the Alik'r and the party is being held under lock and key in a purple glowing cave (you know what I mean).

I agree OP, [snip] crates started with just apex mounts, then they introduced the really rare radiant apex mounts (drop rate <1%), then the introduced gem exclusives (so people who might not like the stuff in the crates in a given season, but liked the gem exclusives, had to buy crates to convert to gems to then buy these), and when hiding things behind layers of currency, it's difficult to gauge its real price. For eg., a gem exclusive pet was 400 gems, while in the CS most of them were around 1k crowns--now think how many crates you need to buy to yield 400 gems, definitely a lot more than 1k crowns worth of crates, right? After that they introduced the seals for legal reasons, BUT they increased most things in the crates as a result (and decreased overall gem yield), so now we have costumes at 400 gems, that's ridiculously expensive compared to the times we had 800 crown costumes... [snip] not to mention that over the years almost nothing fancy makes its way to the store for direct sale. So if you want something cool-looking for your character you have to turn to the crates (or daily grind for one year to get it with seals). I really do think players should request for more things in the CS for direct sale. And it's not things for direct sale are cheap either, houses can cost twice the price of a chapter... The new animations being in crates is just the nail on the coffin, very shameful that a new unique character features is locked behind loot boxes. [snip]

[edited for bashing]

Necrotech_Master

for the OP, i can kind of understand some of the frustrations

the companions needing to be unlocked on each character is abhorrent, its not really "gatekeeping" just requires mindless grinding, the only possible reason ive come to conclude why this was done was for immersion sake, because if you say unlocked mirri on one toon, then took another toon to blackwood and used mirri as a companion, you could still do the POI quest in blackwood that unlocks mirri as a companion, which means you would both be doing the POI quest for mirri at the same time as having mirri out as a companion (nobody else will see this but you, but this would likely bother some people, me personally i would rather it be an account unlock like it truly should be)

i also can understand that for a brand new player, it is an overwhelming amount of DLC packs out there at this point, granted they are slowly adding some of the older content to be "free" to the base game (first imperial city, and then they recently added the morrowind chapter)

i dont know if i really want to comment on the other aspects, as dungeon difficulty is going to be wildly different to different people, ive played with vets and completely brand new players, and my only wish for the crown store would be to basically remove crown crates and offer those items for direct buy (they kind of done this with the endeavor seals, but its not great)

Mik195

Needing to unlock companions is boring, but its not like you have to do much. Your new character can click on the companion and get the quest so you don't even how to find the place. Then the quest is maybe 10-15 minutes and you get a companion that's max level (or whatever top level the companion has). Rapport is boring, but I don't see much value in maxing it out on alts. Horse training on alts is much more objectionable.

Danikat

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i also can understand that for a brand new player, it is an overwhelming amount of DLC packs out there at this point, granted they are slowly adding some of the older content to be "free" to the base game (first imperial city, and then they recently added the morrowind chapter)

I agree there's a lot of DLC and it would be confusing for new players, but if anyone's feeling like that my advice would be not to worry about it yet.

Whenever I'm buying a game which has a lot of DLC, or if I don't know enough about the game to understand what's in the DLC and if it's something I want, I just get the base game and assume I'll figure it out later.

With ESO I think it's worth thinking about how much you expect to like the game and how far you think you'll get, because if you're going to play the DLC/chapters then buying the High Isle collection will work out cheaper in the long run, but all the other DLC can wait until you get to it. (There's also the option of buying a month of ESO+ to try it out and then using the crowns to buy DLC you like.)

Aelorin

First I want to tell you that you mix up DLC and Chapters. That is not the same. This leads me to the following. There is a point in your discussion that I do not understand.

Chapters (Vvardenfell, Summerset, North Elsweyr, ...) you have to buy, you can not activate them with ESO+

DLC (small zone, dungeons) you can buy, OR you get all the DLC with ESO+.

The companions Bastian and Mirri were content from Blackwoord Chapter.

Ember and Isobel are from the High Isle Chapter.

So once you buy the chapter, you automatically have access to the corresponding companions. ESO+ can not change this? I agree it is a bit of a hassle to unlock these for every single character.

If I'm mistaken, please enlighten me.

Danikat

Aelorin wrote: »

First I want to tell you that you mix up DLC and Chapters. That is not the same. This leads me to the following. There is a point in your discussion that I do not understand.

Chapters (Vvardenfell, Summerset, North Elsweyr, ...) you have to buy, you can not activate them with ESO+

DLC (small zone, dungeons) you can buy, OR you get all the DLC with ESO+.

The companions Bastian and Mirri were content from Blackwoord Chapter.

Ember and Isobel are from the High Isle Chapter.

So once you buy the chapter, you automatically have access to the corresponding companions. ESO+ can not change this? I agree it is a bit of a hassle to unlock these for every single character.

If I'm mistaken, please enlighten me.

Only the latest chapter is excluded from ESO+. Once a new chapter is released the previous one is re-branded DLC and at that point it's sold in the crown store and included with ESO+.

So if someone bought only the base game today and then signed up for ESO+ they'd have access to everything except High Isle. They'd get High Isle next year when the next chapter is released.

boi_anachronism_

Something I think many folks that pay for houses don't realize is there are several you can get in game, both large and small. Elswyer completion gives you hall of the luner champion which is huge. Some are a grind like ebonheart manor but you can still get it with in game gold after completing the achievements as well as the lake house in Morrowind for example.

Triplesixtyson

While i dont agree with any loot box systems in games, I feel ESOs monetary system is very fair. IMO you get a whole heck of alot for a very small fee.

boi_anachronism_

Triplesixtyson wrote: »

While i dont agree with any loot box systems in games, I feel ESOs monetary system is very fair. IMO you get a whole heck of alot for a very small fee.

Depends on what you are talking about. With ESO+ then yes it's a good deal. With the vast majority of mounts and cosmetics locked behind a paywall not so much.

Necrotech_Master

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Triplesixtyson wrote: »

While i dont agree with any loot box systems in games, I feel ESOs monetary system is very fair. IMO you get a whole heck of alot for a very small fee.

Depends on what you are talking about. With ESO+ then yes it's a good deal. With the vast majority of mounts and cosmetics locked behind a paywall not so much.

direct buy stuff i think is fine, its the RNG paywall of crown crates thats frustrating

TheS1X

Game feels boring because there are no actual rewards in game.
Everything cool is in crown store. - Well, I'm fine with them earning money to keep game updated but they should really think about adding some crown store items as rewards that come with in game ahcivements or quests.
For example those upcoming custom harvesting emotes? I mean, [snip]... Anyone actually gonna buy those?
Those low quality BS should not be in Crown Store, put all such trash in game and players will be happier to explore, play and do stuff to get those small items, emotes or whatever.

[edited for profanity bypass]

TheS1X

Oh yeah, anyone actually ever got anything meaningful from treasure chests?
I actually skip those, don't even care about those because there's always trash in it.
Add some emotes there or some outfits or some mounts. It can be like 0.001 chance but at least it makes people want to pick it up.