The Damage Philosophy is SO BAD right now... What is going on?

Crom_CCCXVI

It's so frustrating to see this game going in the absolute wrong direction the past few years...
Right now
-- there is No Q for Cyrodil's main campaign on a Friday or Sat night (PS4 NA)
-- In PvE you can't tell what sets you are wearing unless you look at the name (I'll explain later)
-- I have friends in Battlegrounds posting 3million dmg with 1 kill and like 5 assists.

THERE IS SO LITTLE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SETS IT IS DUMB
Is this a misguided quest for balance by essentially making everything the same? Balance should be "Roles" or Good vs this, Bad vs this.. like remember when DK's were a nightmare for Sorcs, and Templars were a nightmare for DK's and Nightblades were a nightmare for anyone standing by themselves not paying attention?

Now I'm playing World of Tanks in PvP.
The average enemy is 35k health, 25k armor, in some ultra fast moving ball group that can't be CC'd and and good luck if I can even 1 focus one enemy with the tiny target window and delays on skills... regardless the hardest hitting skill I am going to muster after the Nerf's to heavy attacks is probably around 15k..
----

When I say all damage sets are the same...
--- Don't you think something that only improves FIRE or LIGHTNING Damage should actually make a difference on that?
I can show up with generic damage at 6000 (for example) or where a specified set and get maybe 6300... That is absolutely irrelevant, especially in PvP.
-- I know many people hate proc sets, but regardless 95% of them are worthless-- what good is a 5k proc? Nothing much.
-- If set does one thing, or only effects one kind of enemy it should matter.

I would hope the declining numbers in PvP would inspire ESO to reach out to the main player base, instead of whomever they are listening to now (it has to be ball groups or stam trolls with no interest in the actual game who want to be able to run away whenever they are hit, and anytime they die the game is broken and something needs nerfed)--- I say that, because these are the only effective builds in PvP at this point.

I have played Max Dmg. Single Target DPS for 5 years. I can frequently have 7k dmg, 25k pen, Crit dmg of +35%, with a 4 skill non-crit tool tip combo of 60k+, on the rare occasion I hit it perfect, everything Crits, most players still walk away. This isn't me bragging, I'm just making the point I understand damage, I love theory crafting, I like to play non-conventional even stupid builds once and a while... but right now this is so mundane, obviously others feel that way aslo, looking at the population.


I'd start by taking every damage set and TRIPLING every number on them (if something is ludicrious, fine, nerf that one set.. still better than right now) , and then maybe work down from there, unless this is exactly what you want, in which case just say so... so people like myself give up all hope and move on.

Baconlad

Um...I disagree.

My experience in PvP is much different. There are very tanky setups. But the tankiest setups are very rare, players holding block and surviving an onslaught on players. Those guys aren't doing much damage.

What ur seeing is mostly players who spec for damage but take advantage of LoS and dodge roll, being able to take on hordes of enemies through very good burst after a turn and burn.

This is primarily a stamina meta and has been for years. Being able to dodge roll frequently and hold block longer, with the best hot available, having ur heavy attacks return that defense pool.

Most of these guys are running medium armor and get awesome tankyness and healing power as a result. Far more than building a heavy armor mag toon.

Having said that, there aren't very many super damage level stamina players out there. It's easier to build glass canon mag toon and have higher burst than it is for stamina unless ur a NB ganker.

On my 20k spell pen, 7.5-8k spell damage oakensoul magplar. I'm hitting 30k health stamina brawl stars of any class harder than most can deal with. The only way they can kill me is by closing the gap with multiple dodge rolls and pray I havnt already gotten them to execute range, cause if I do? Then rip. They just don't have the build in defense to be able to survive it. Building higher health helps them. But that only counter for about a second more of damage from me. He'll at full health my radiant oppression hits them for 4k crit on average PER TIC. and it hits three (or four?) Times in a second and a half. Throw in a light attack and recast. My javelin hits for 7-8k cross on average at range, flare is slightly lower. I've hit these brawl stars for 20k at lower health, and 10k through block. It's super oppressive.

What I'm seeing is that it's far more beneficial for me to build completely into damage. Make it easy to counter me, easy to kill me, but gives me a super oppressive combo if they dont counter. Add in mist form and vampire stealth passive with invisible pots?

In cyrodiil I can commonly wipe 20 players of all types before I get killed.

Like I said though. 1v1 against a brawler stambro? It's hard. I have the damage to kill them but they have the easy counters. So I don't spend much time in IC lol!

Sorry for wall of text

Baconlad

Oh also. 3 mil damage is obsurd. That's a ridiculous amount of damage, further proves the point that they aren't building for defense. They are building for sustained damage with burst windows. High regen, decent resists decent damage. It's a well balanced build.

By build nets me on average 700k damage and in the 20s for kills. (My highest kill count was 45 in a flag game. Can't do that on a brawl star without a healer) I would rather die five times and kill 20 with 700k damage than kill 2-3 die once and deal 3 million damage...just me.

And deathmatch modes are dumb. Ball groups of healers, balanced build stambros. And the occasional ranged plebiscite like me looking for a guy to make a mistake and get too far away from the ball. Death matches aren't fun to me. Because of my previously mentioned prefered playstyle.

moleculardrugs

Baconlad wrote: »

Um...I disagree.

My experience in PvP is much different. There are very tanky setups. But the tankiest setups are very rare, players holding block and surviving an onslaught on players. Those guys aren't doing much damage.

What ur seeing is mostly players who spec for damage but take advantage of LoS and dodge roll, being able to take on hordes of enemies through very good burst after a turn and burn.

This is primarily a stamina meta and has been for years. Being able to dodge roll frequently and hold block longer, with the best hot available, having ur heavy attacks return that defense pool.

Most of these guys are running medium armor and get awesome tankyness and healing power as a result. Far more than building a heavy armor mag toon.

Having said that, there aren't very many super damage level stamina players out there. It's easier to build glass canon mag toon and have higher burst than it is for stamina unless ur a NB ganker.

On my 20k spell pen, 7.5-8k spell damage oakensoul magplar. I'm hitting 30k health stamina brawl stars of any class harder than most can deal with. The only way they can kill me is by closing the gap with multiple dodge rolls and pray I havnt already gotten them to execute range, cause if I do? Then rip. They just don't have the build in defense to be able to survive it. Building higher health helps them. But that only counter for about a second more of damage from me. He'll at full health my radiant oppression hits them for 4k crit on average PER TIC. and it hits three (or four?) Times in a second and a half. Throw in a light attack and recast. My javelin hits for 7-8k cross on average at range, flare is slightly lower. I've hit these brawl stars for 20k at lower health, and 10k through block. It's super oppressive.

What I'm seeing is that it's far more beneficial for me to build completely into damage. Make it easy to counter me, easy to kill me, but gives me a super oppressive combo if they dont counter. Add in mist form and vampire stealth passive with invisible pots?

In cyrodiil I can commonly wipe 20 players of all types before I get killed.

Like I said though. 1v1 against a brawler stambro? It's hard. I have the damage to kill them but they have the easy counters. So I don't spend much time in IC lol!

Sorry for wall of text

Don’t be sorry for the text. It needed to be said. I say cap or nerf stamina meta or give magicka more to play with.

OBJnoob

Honestly its a hybrid meta not a stam meta. Stam toons have always needed a certain base amount of magic and magic recovery, however you achieve it, because almost all important class buffs are magic. Now with dynamic scaling for skills half of our attacks are magic as well because its just the better skill/morph. Stamsorcs use curse, wardens use penetration shalks, and stamdks uh don't exist.

Blocking, rolling, sprinting, and casting vigor are not uniquely beneficial to stam builds. If you havent found a way to do it yet I strongly urge you to try.

Rowjoh

please excuse my ignorance, but what is 'brawl stars' 'brawler stambro' and LoS ? I genuinely dont know.

Also agree with @Baconlad. I average out at around 18 kills per death atm, and have even reached 100 kills/no deaths a couple of times with a non-meta nb build. Should be an achievement for that imho

blue_peaceful_Manticore

"The Damage Philosophy is SO BAD right now... What is going on? "

Hybrid chars.

- Mages with Dagers
- WoodElfs with 2Handed Swords
- Orcs with staffs
- And Necromances with bows

Well.... at least there's no problens in crownStore. Thank god!!!!

Baconlad

I disagree that Stam toons have always needed magic. Magic on a Stam toon is a dump stat. For example, DK wings are cool. In the past Stam dks used them but could easily have not used them. Same for stamplar and purge. They (almost) always had all the tools through stamina skills they've needed for years to do what they do better now...certainly before vigor of course...poor Stam before vigor. Helplessly spamming two hander heal.

Magic toons can't use stamina pool much at all. I see alot of magic players using vigor, buts super risky as mag. The core defense abilities that use stamina like break free, dodge roll, sprint and block are too expensive for a mag build to use much else.

Being a templar that uses biting jabs and spell damage but max Stam and medium armor is still a stamina build...using spell damage and purifying light, honor the dead and ur 10% spell damage buff doesn't make you a hybrid...it makes you and stamina build that uses ur dump stat for things that surpass what you need. The magic skills are really just fluff.

If you as that above stamplar spam honor the dead or purge...will u die because ur out of Magic? No...cause ur still using vigor to cover massive healing, still have stamina for reduced cost dodge roll, sprint, block.

If your a Magic based templar running light armor and max Magic, and you run out of stamina because you used vigor too many times...you might die. Just hope ur enemy doesn't stun you again and you can't break free. You see that massive skill comming? Better hope you have stamina to dodge it.

Point is that this meta took stamina builds, Which were already good and made them better cause they get magic and stamina defense and offense to pair with their massive stamina pool. It's not "dodge roll" alone. It's the multitude of things. Dodge does not need to be nerfed, but maybe they could look at armor passive and bring light armor up to par defensively and offensively with medium. That's all I'm asking for. I refuse to play stamina builds. I like staves. I like Magic based skills cause I like the way they look. I don't like that stamina has been the PvP meta for 4 years.

As a magplar main. There was a time where I asked in the forums to just be forgotten about by the devs. They've never been that great. But in the past we're nerfed over and over and over again. So I stopped playing the way zeni wanted me to and gave up, so here I am playing a magplar glass canon ranged build and have been since summerset.

Baconlad

Also. Op you don't seem to remember how bad things have been in the past with defense. This aren't too bad right now with TTK. It doesn't feel amazing, but it does feel ok. Much better than some previous patches.

I'd love to see mag builds brought back into the light!

Skullstachio

I honestly think there are bigger problems that far exceed the problems described in the OP.
Just to name a few:

1. Sandbox separation (i.e. separating PvE from PvP.) because the sandbox separation is so bad that all it has done is 2 out of many problems, causing player division and bad long term engagement of the game as a whole.
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