The Tutorial Should Not Let You Choose Where You Want To Start

Good_VS_Evil

I get wanting to let people have freedom and what not but there becomes a point where you are screwing over continuity and lore/logic because some people are impatient or just want to skip content because they can.

When I first played the game questing through everyone kept calling me "Soul Shriven" and telling me stuff like "only you can do this...", "something is strange about you..."And so im sitting here through these quests like: "umm ok but when the hell did I get my soul shriven?" Turns out you dont even start the main quest UNTIL you get to the hub town/city and the shrouded guy acts as a prologue to it effectively making the game pretty much have 2 tutorials.

FluffWit

In a way I like it. Like I just did Elsweyr, met some lovely npcs like Abnur Tharn and Cadwell but since I haven't done Soul Shriven in Cold Harbor they treated me like the stranger I was to them.

But yeah, in general the games beginning phase is objectively better if you ditch the new tutorial, send everyone into the Wailing prison and then release them on the relevant starter island.

For a new player I think it's a much better experience then simply spawning near a wayshrine in Blackwood or Elsweyr with a quest npc in front of you.

NeuroticPixels

Personally, I think you should have to play the base game’s main story line through (not Cadwell’s silver or gold) on a single character before you can choose where to start on another character.

Nestor

New players should start on the starter lsland Zone for their race.

Alts can start where the player wants

spartaxoxo

I think the new tutorial is a good way to show people there's more than one starting area. The ones that care enough about story cohesion for it to bother them will probably lookup where the best place to start is. The ones that don't and just want to play a specific zone can pick that too. Great setup

Maitsukas

The game should start in Coldharbour as originally, but instead of being sent to Bleakrock Isle, Khenarthi's Roost, or Stros M'Kai at the end, you are sent to Balfiera. And by using the portals for the first 4 Chapters in the Keywright's Gallery, there should be an option to take on the currently disabled tutorial quests (Broken Bonds for Morrowind, The Mind Trap for Summerset, Bright Moons, Warm Sands for Elsweyr and Bound in Blood for Greymoor)

Danikat

I like having the choice, but I do think they should make it clearer that all the storylines were written with a specific order in mind and what that is, so players who want to do it in the intended order and not run into problems like the OP had get that option.

The current system works well for players who don't care about the story making sense, and experienced players who know the intended order or want to make their own stories, but it doesn't work well for new players who want the story and don't know how to find it themselves, and probably don't realise they'll have to go out of their way to make sure they do it in order. In most games it's the opposite and it's only experienced players who know the 'tricks' who can do things out of order.

Soarora

Less of a problem but I think as more Chapters get added, it’ll become more overwhelming to choose a portal too. I’ve already done the tutorial a bunch and still take like 5 minutes staring at them all to figure out where to go. I can’t imagine its a good time for a new player unless they have a favorite TES game.

Danikat

Soarora wrote: »

Less of a problem but I think as more Chapters get added, it’ll become more overwhelming to choose a portal too. I’ve already done the tutorial a bunch and still take like 5 minutes staring at them all to figure out where to go. I can’t imagine its a good time for a new player unless they have a favorite TES game.

I was going to say I rarely have that problem because I tend to make up a story and a plan for a character before I actually create them in the game so when I get to that point I know which portal they're going to choose. But then I realised that's just shifting the time scale. I still spend a lot of time thinking about it, I just do it before I get to that room.

Dr_Con

new players are overwhelmed by choices. you won't see them complaining about it on here since the forums have gated access, but they complain about it on reddit. the ones who bother to check for the sticky guide appreciate how it helps them. players I've personally guided are also grateful, but as it stands now no new player that I know of is having a satisfactory experience with all the choices available at the end of the new tutorial.

Androrix

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I think the new tutorial is a good way to show people there's more than one starting area. The ones that care enough about story cohesion for it to bother them will probably lookup where the best place to start is. The ones that don't and just want to play a specific zone can pick that too. Great setup

Hmmm. As usual, I mostly agree with you. This tutorial and the starting zone options was something people wanted, as I recall. I like it too. The only thing I would suggest adding is to make it very clear at the tutorial's end where the main quest begins. Direct the new player a bit more. The idea of getting offline to go research when I reach that point doesn't appeal to me.

AcadianPaladin

I think it would improve the game if the default was to start in Coldharbour and make it easy to play the game in release order with the option of starting where you want. I know if I was a new player, I'd be hopelessly confused with the game as it is now. Even as an older player, when I do start a new char, they play the game in release order - but it is only my experience and knowledge of resources (like the guide by @VaranisArano) that make playing in order clear enough so the confusion is manageable.

Holycannoli

What's wrong with starting in the Wailing Prison then escaping to your starter island like it used to be? Why did it even have to be changed?

ArchMikem

Yup.

I'm pretty much a Rarity when I say I actually enjoy story content being locked behind progression, forcing you to do it in a determined order. Or at the very least, locking content to certain level ranges.

Before One Tamriel, when I was first questing thru the EP zones, the mobs in each zone were of steadily increasing levels. Stonefalls were like, level 10 to 15. Buy that zone has a land connection to The Rift, which is the last zone in the EP questline. If you traveled that you suddenly jumped 30 levels. I secretly loved it when I went from fighting lvl15 Covenant soldiers to getting my butt handed to me by lvl45 skeletons and Sabretooths.

I want restrictions.

spartaxoxo

Androrix wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I think the new tutorial is a good way to show people there's more than one starting area. The ones that care enough about story cohesion for it to bother them will probably lookup where the best place to start is. The ones that don't and just want to play a specific zone can pick that too. Great setup

Hmmm. As usual, I mostly agree with you. This tutorial and the starting zone options was something people wanted, as I recall. I like it too. The only thing I would suggest adding is to make it very clear at the tutorial's end where the main quest begins. Direct the new player a bit more. The idea of getting offline to go research when I reach that point doesn't appeal to me.

Yeah. There could definitely be a hint somehow to guide them to their alliance starting zones.

disintegr8

ArchMikem wrote: »

Yup.

I'm pretty much a Rarity when I say I actually enjoy story content being locked behind progression, forcing you to do it in a determined order. Or at the very least, locking content to certain level ranges.

Before One Tamriel, when I was first questing thru the EP zones, the mobs in each zone were of steadily increasing levels. Stonefalls were like, level 10 to 15. Buy that zone has a land connection to The Rift, which is the last zone in the EP questline. If you traveled that you suddenly jumped 30 levels. I secretly loved it when I went from fighting lvl15 Covenant soldiers to getting my butt handed to me by lvl45 skeletons and Sabretooths.

I want restrictions.

I pretty much agree. I remember venturing out from Daggerfall on my first character and getting my butt kicked by higher level enemies because I didn't know that my starter island existed - I had to use the internet to figure out why Glenumbra was above my character level.

With little knowledge of how food, potions and sets worked, you couldn't always defeat an enemy the first time you encountered them. It felt good to level up a bit more, and/or get better gear/weapons, so you could come back for revenge.

Northwold

Good_VS_Evil wrote: »

I get wanting to let people have freedom and what not but there becomes a point where you are screwing over continuity and lore/logic because some people are impatient or just want to skip content because they can.

When I first played the game questing through everyone kept calling me "Soul Shriven" and telling me stuff like "only you can do this...", "something is strange about you..."And so im sitting here through these quests like: "umm ok but when the hell did I get my soul shriven?" Turns out you dont even start the main quest UNTIL you get to the hub town/city and the shrouded guy acts as a prologue to it effectively making the game pretty much have 2 tutorials.

In a way that choosing where to start system is a compromise. Previously you started in the tutorial zone of the latest chapter which really DID make things incoherent (I didn't know there even was a main quest for literally months). But, yes, it's not ideal.

ESO was a dreadful experience for a new player when I picked it up (in Morrowind but Summerset had been released) and I gave up on the game twice until someone pointed me to a guide to playing the main quest in order. Even then, because when the base game was released you started geographically locked to your alliance, a lot of the content simply didn't make sense now that you can move freely around.

Given what I saw in Daggerfall when I started a new character a while ago (identical arrows essentially everywhere and character after character trying to throw quests at you with no indication what they are), it may now be even worse.

TaSheen

I didn't have any problem with starting in MW and going on to the first part of the Coldharbour tut. But that's because I did what I always do with a new game: I read the game forum (I went back about a hundred pages in general discussion, and read them all forward); and I googled the game so I knew what was going on (I didn't know anyone who was playing ESO when I decided to play).

By this time (5 + years), I don't actually follow any given route through the game on every character. I "freelance play". But really, it would be far more sensible to stop with the money-grubbing (drop new players into the latest content so ZOS can get fresh influx of funds for the latest content) and provide a setup (optional of course) so those with more interest in the game's timeline/play processes could enjoy without getting lost. I'm well aware that my microscopic dissection of the game on the forum and online through google isn't probably all that "normal". But - I don't really like surprises when I'm just beginning gameplay.

Hapexamendios

I think the last time I made a new character was when Elsweyr came out. I don't even remember the tutorial from there or any other ones. They just don't leave a lasting impression. I see no problem letting a new player start where they are want.

Varana

Holycannoli wrote: »

What's wrong with starting in the Wailing Prison then escaping to your starter island like it used to be? Why did it even have to be changed?

Because they want new players who come to the game when a chapter releases, to get into the advertised content as soon as possible. "ESO releases new stuff and you can do that right away!" is a compelling argument over grinding levels to get access to new content, and they want to capitalise on that advantage.

Danikat

They could keep the current tutorial and the freedom to choose while still making it clearer for new players what they need to do to play in order. All it needs is one of the tutorial pop-ups when you get into the room with all the portals saying. "If you want to start with the base game and follow the story in order you should pick [Alliance starter island]. If you want to head straight for the newest adventures you should pick [latest chapter] or you can go anywhere else you want."

I actually like the new tutorial. It's the first time since the Coldharbour one I feel like it leaves it completely open how we got there. I hated having to do the Morrowind tutorial on my warden because there was absolutely no reason a breton warden who was going to start from Daggerfall would be on a boat to Morrowind so I had to just pretend that didn't happen. (I actually re-made her when Greymoor came out because that tutorial was a much better fit.)

In the new one all you're told is you came through a portal - nothing about where you were, what you were doing or how that happened so you're free to invent your own story. Likewise having the freedom to choose where you go and no stated goals for your character leaves it open why they chose that destination. Maybe they're going back home, maybe they're going as far away as possible, maybe they were already on their way there and are continuing their journey.

The only problems I have with it are that it doesn't make it clear there is an intended order and how to start from the beginning of that and if you pick to go to your alliance you're dropped onto the starter island, but then when you pick up the main quest and come out of Coldharbour you're back on the same island, probably with nothing to do because you'll have completed all the quests. I think the tutorial should drop you in the main city where you can pick up the main quest right away.

davidtk

It would be nice if ESO had some real story mode or a full story quest that would guide you in the correct order to do the story (so you don't have to search the web or have an addon).
And at the end of the tutorial, the game would ask if you want to go where you want or if you want to turn on this story quest mod.

robwolf666

I think it should start the way it originally started, in Coldharbour, then your alliance start zone, then you need to do your alliance area story - THEN you get access to the Tower, maybe via Cadwell when he's offering you the chance to do the other alliance stories, and the DLC zones are then also offered.

The way it is now does mess up the continuity and story a bit, well, a lot depending on where you go. But I get that people like the choice, but I think they are probably mostly the people who don't care about the story as much as getting to LvL 50 so they can get into PvP.

redlink1979

I get that ZOS wants to sell new content but the start of the game for a new player is EXTREMELY confusing.
ZOS should never changed how a player starts the game: the Wailing Prison should always be the starting point for a new player. In the original start, all made a lot more sense (Wailing Prison > starter zone of the char's Alliance).

blue_peaceful_Manticore

redlink1979 wrote: »

I get that ZOS wants to sell new content but the start of the game for a new player is EXTREMELY confusing.
ZOS should never changed how a player starts the game: the Wailing Prison should always be the starting point for a new player. In the original start, all made a lot more sense (Wailing Prison > starter zone of the char's Alliance).

Agree 100% with you
Players should start the game in Wailing Prison.

If new players dont follow topics like this one: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/525351/a-clear-step-by-step-guide-to-playing-eso-in-chronological-order/p1

Story dont make any sence! None!
But.... sadly, who cares about story and sence this days...

Danikat

robwolf666 wrote: »

I think it should start the way it originally started, in Coldharbour, then your alliance start zone, then you need to do your alliance area story - THEN you get access to the Tower, maybe via Cadwell when he's offering you the chance to do the other alliance stories, and the DLC zones are then also offered.

The way it is now does mess up the continuity and story a bit, well, a lot depending on where you go. But I get that people like the choice, but I think they are probably mostly the people who don't care about the story as much as getting to LvL 50 so they can get into PvP.

There would be no need to include the Tower later in the game because as soon as you're out of the tutorial you can go to any of the other Alliances zones or any chapter or DLC you own by using wayshrines. You can also pick up the starter quests in the world or from the crown store. The choice of portals is only necessary for new players who won't know about that system yet and for those who care about a coherent story and don't want their character skipping around without a reason.

Keeping it so everyone always started in Coldharbour, then got out into their alliance's main city would have been the best solution, but ZOS really want to show off the newest release and make sure new players almost can't miss it. They used to add a new tutorial with every chapter which forced everyone to start in the latest one they owned. The current system is a compromise between what ZOS want and what players want, and since ZOS are the ones who get to decide we're not likely to get a complete revision to the original tutorial.

barney2525

Maitsukas wrote: »

The game should start in Coldharbour as originally, but instead of being sent to Bleakrock Isle, Khenarthi's Roost, or Stros M'Kai at the end, you are sent to Balfiera. And by using the portals for the first 4 Chapters in the Keywright's Gallery, there should be an option to take on the currently disabled tutorial quests (Broken Bonds for Morrowind, The Mind Trap for Summerset, Bright Moons, Warm Sands for Elsweyr and Bound in Blood for Greymoor)

Why would anyone Need a Tutorial quest ... once they finish a Tutorial quest ?

This is just another thread about how an individual wants to force their personal preferences onto everyone else.

HerrKeinTipp_MrNoTip

FluffWit wrote: »

In a way I like it. Like I just did Elsweyr, met some lovely npcs like Abnur Tharn and Cadwell but since I haven't done Soul Shriven in Cold Harbor they treated me like the stranger I was to them.

But yeah, in general the games beginning phase is objectively better if you ditch the new tutorial, send everyone into the Wailing prison and then release them on the relevant starter island.

For a new player I think it's a much better experience then simply spawning near a wayshrine in Blackwood or Elsweyr with a quest npc in front of you.

Would this still happen after AWA?

Ragnarok0130

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I think the new tutorial is a good way to show people there's more than one starting area. The ones that care enough about story cohesion for it to bother them will probably lookup where the best place to start is. The ones that don't and just want to play a specific zone can pick that too. Great setup

But we always knew this even back in closed Beta because you chose your alliance and we all knew that meant you would start in your alliance's starting area. I think the wailing prison should still be the default tutorial but it should be revamped to actually train new players. I do like that the game tells me now that I can skip the tutorial since I've done it now that it's not the wailing prison. I did the new tutorial and found it wanting, albeit better in training people than the previous tutorial.