Why is the netch skill allowed to exist ?

Nissowolf

This is no joke. This is no sarcasm. This is a real question. I wonder exactly WHY the netch skill of the warden is allowed to exist.

It gives back ressources. It buff. It purges. It doesn't cost anything. This. Is. Absurd.

A purge skill is in PVP one of the most useful skill for PVP, and all of the other purge skill that i know of have a huge cost. the purge skill of the PVP skill line is one of the most ressource-eating skill.
WHY does the warden have a skill without ANY cost that is so overpowered ?

the1andonlyskwex

Necromancer's Expunge is also pretty cheap. It's only group purges that are expensive.

Soarora

It’s all fun and games until you get hit with plaguebreak… can’t control the purge or unsummon the netch.

Nexxperumbra

God forbid different classes have different abilities that make them different from the others. Just saying, it's things like this post that cause all class identity and uniqueness to be lost. All classes should have things the others don't. That's what makes them appealing, not watered down versions of the same thing, with the illusion that its something different. Ask for things to be implemented to others, not removing them from someone else.

Klingenlied

Nissowolf wrote: »

This is no joke. This is no sarcasm. This is a real question. I wonder exactly WHY the netch skill of the warden is allowed to exist.

It gives back ressources. It buff. It purges. It doesn't cost anything. This. Is. Absurd.

A purge skill is in PVP one of the most useful skill for PVP, and all of the other purge skill that i know of have a huge cost. the purge skill of the PVP skill line is one of the most ressource-eating skill.
WHY does the warden have a skill without ANY cost that is so overpowered ?

You don't understand.

We DON'T WANT autopurge. It messes with content!
We STILL STRUGGLE WITH SUSTAIN - especially in solo environments because the game want's us to sustain only when we are healing in a party! Check not only this skill but how our passives work.

So yea, for the sake of it: Make Netch a simple permament regeneration buff. Cleanse on activation for a cost. Cam be high for all I care. Easy as this. I asked a lot of times for this. Warden's don't want their class op or "overperforming". We just want it to freakin' work and be fair in PvE and PvP environments. ZOS however doesn't seem to like it this way.

geonsocal

it's not really the warden's netch that you're mad about, is it?

I almost never see them being used anymore since oakensoul release...

Nissowolf

geonsocal wrote: »

it's not really the warden's netch that you're mad about, is it?

I almost never see them being used anymore since oakensoul release...

no no, you read me right, it's the warden's netch i'm talking about. I'm playing on PC EU for that matter, and i assure you that the netch is still used a lot because it's absurdly useful.

Amottica

The resource return is balanced in how much it returns compared to other resource sustain skills with a cost. Zenimax commented on this when they balanced such skills.

The entire picture is that we do have some differences between builds for the various classes instead of everything being exactly the same.

OBJnoob

I don't think its a huge deal but I don't think OP is wrong to want to at least talk about it. I play a warden at the moment and standing in oils spamming netch is pretty ridiculous. The purge could have a cooldown of 3 or 5 seconds it wouldn't be a terrible thing.

Nissowolf

No cost - Gives back 4992 magicka / Major buff / cleanse



Cost 790 stam - heal when LA / gives back 4270 stam

How is that balanced ? Truly.
I don't ask for a full rework of the skill that will rend it useless it, but let's just talk about it honestly.

the1andonlyskwex

Nissowolf wrote: »

No cost - Gives back 4992 magicka / Major buff / cleanse



Cost 790 stam - heal when LA / gives back 4270 stam

How is that balanced ? Truly.
I don't ask for a full rework of the skill that will rend it useless it, but let's just talk about it honestly.

If you're weaving light attacks, Leeching Strikes returns a total of 6390 stamina over 20 seconds, while Bull Netch is only 4992 stamina over 25 seconds.

Janni

Also you are forgetting about GCD. If I'm spamming my netch to make a totally random roll at which of the 6-12 negative effects that are on me at any given time it might take 3-6 tries before I get it. That's 3-6 full seconds of doing nothing else. And yeah it does give me resources back but when compared to a sorc's resources conversion tools it's a slow drip with a significantly smaller heal so the cost seems fair.

Try playing a warden for a while. You'll often find that the netch is pretty good but it overlaps with so many other things that you often feel like it's going to waste and you start to consider other ways to get the same buffs. And as for purges... templars, necros, and literally anyone wearing mara's balm outperforms the netch any day!

OnGodiDoDis

1) It's 1 free purge every 5 seconds.
2) Nobody is going to waste a global cooldown to cast netch just to remove 1 of 5+ negative effects when their HP is low.
3) The major buffs can be obtained from potions and other skills. It's not like netch is providing a unique, OP buff that's inaccesible anywhere else.
4) Long-time Wardens only use it for the sustain. If you rely on netch for the buffs, you need to rethink your build.

Ankael07

Netch is a resource gain skill not a purge skill. Youre comparing apples to oranges. You dont spam netch in the heat of battle to cleanse 1 random debuff from a mountain of debuffs on you.

Alliance Purge on the other hand clears 3 debuffs from you AND your allies + heals them for each debuff cleared

Artim_X

*puts on netch handler cap* Don't be the person that asks for nerfs instead of buffs to other classes. Homogenization is the death of fun.

Solariken

I feel you, I've been mostly playing ranged Templar, and I have ZERO possibility of killing Wardens using Netch + Frost Slab.

I don't mind rock paper scissors mechanics to some extent but it sucks to be completely shut down vs some opponents.

Minalan

Netch is free plaguebreak explosion damage, it’s not like the warden gets to pick which debuff to remove.

LeHarrt91

Yeah the Auto cleanse every 5s is not needed, the cleanse on activation is fine.
But the warden is very much a buff intensive class and we lack a quantity of damage skills, in the Animal Companions tree we only have 3 damage skills and an ultimate, the other 2 are pure buffs.

Hexquisite

I would gladly take a class execute, over a purging Netch.

LoreToo

Why the sap essence on nightblade allowed? Its the only aoe class spammable that deals tons of damage(on a bomber or group dps), heals you and your group for stupid amount, grants you damage buff, grants you ultimate on skill cast, max magicka and healing done via siphoning skill line passives. So ridiculous, remove this skull from the game!!!111

Btw netch grants ult on cast too and heals when expired.
Are you sure you really wanna complain about balance in pvp?

LukosCreyden

People really won't quit until warden is at the bottom of the ocean, huh?

Cast_El

Nissowolf wrote: »

This is no joke. This is no sarcasm. This is a real question. I wonder exactly WHY the netch skill of the warden is allowed to exist.

It gives back ressources. It buff. It purges. It doesn't cost anything. This. Is. Absurd.

A purge skill is in PVP one of the most useful skill for PVP, and all of the other purge skill that i know of have a huge cost. the purge skill of the PVP skill line is one of the most ressource-eating skill.
WHY does the warden have a skill without ANY cost that is so overpowered ?

You forgot one thing: it heals you when the effect end. You can go away of line of sight and spam it to get a little bit of healing for free, while your resources are low.

mmtaniac

Netch should have cost or cast time.

Cast time can slow this ability and warden will lost some speed, and with cast time spamming will be harder.
Cost will change it to less spammable. Not big cost but similiar cost to templar rune. But at the same time regen should be little higher + 15 % more.

CompM4s

Im really surprised that netch is actually being discussed as op.

Firstmep

A lot of posters here clearly have not seen a warden holding block with vines/vigor/arctic rolling spamming natch for the purge.
It's worth noting that you do get a small heal every time you reapply it from the class passive as well.
It's an extremely useful skill, albeit on par with similar skills in my opinion.
Warden has a lot of rotating buffs, and if they decoupled even 1 effect from netch it would be even more tedious.
What I dont like about warden is the overall design of the class, as it feeds into the stay defensive 90% of the time and try to land 1 burst combo archetype a little too well.
I think it makes for a very boring gameplay loop in pvp.

Janni

I can't be the only person who sees an enemy warden in Cyrodiil and thinks to themselves, "Well the worst that can happen here is they survive."

The class wasn't underpowered. For months up until this last patch people complained that it needed buffs. I was against this because as a warden main it was nice for once to not be accused of playing the 'OP" warden. They were fine. Right where they needed to be. The class also isn't overpowered. One patch later zos makes some random changes that literally no one asked for. A weaker fissure. A weird passive change that arguably helps a little in pvp. And a stun. And now all of a sudden because some people decided to log on to their wardens again it's now considered the god-tier OP class again? Really? Cause I have yet to see one that scares me. The worst they can do is survive. And all of other classes do that just as well while stacking loads of damage on top.

OBJnoob

Janni wrote: »

I can't be the only person who sees an enemy warden in Cyrodiil and thinks to themselves, "Well the worst that can happen here is they survive."

They were fine. Right where they needed to be. The class also isn't overpowered. One patch later zos makes some random changes that literally no one asked for. A weaker fissure. A weird passive change that arguably helps a little in pvp. And a stun.

I'm getting mixed signals from your post. You say they were fine... You say they are fine... And at the same time you say when you see wardens in cyrodiil you automatically assume they aren't a threat. Which is it?

Also, you don't seem to be aware of the buffs they received. It isn't just that they got a stun its a pretty good defensive mechanic to have a burst heal tied to a stun. An aoe stun at that. Really helps to land the 2nd hit of beetles. Also, falcons swiftness now grants 4 seconds of snare removal its basically a better version of race against time, which is saying a lot. I feel like I'm missing something, but regardless those are two pretty big changes that help their defense.

Offensively I agree that they kinda lack. I'm sure if you made one specifically to 1v1 they'd be pretty good but in cyrodiil I think you'd be giving up too much defense and would lose your ability to X. So you are left with a fairly predictable burst combo that you must repeat and doesn't really kill good players. But you can X potatoes for days and your aoe armor debuffs are indespensible for your team in any small scale bsttleground-esque type fight.

The only things I lose to are dks and nbs, and always players my skill level or better.

In summary I think its pretty irrefutable that wardens a) were buffed and b) are very strong.

Janni

OBJnoob wrote: »

Janni wrote: »

I can't be the only person who sees an enemy warden in Cyrodiil and thinks to themselves, "Well the worst that can happen here is they survive."

They were fine. Right where they needed to be. The class also isn't overpowered. One patch later zos makes some random changes that literally no one asked for. A weaker fissure. A weird passive change that arguably helps a little in pvp. And a stun.

I'm getting mixed signals from your post. You say they were fine... You say they are fine... And at the same time you say when you see wardens in cyrodiil you automatically assume they aren't a threat. Which is it?

Also, you don't seem to be aware of the buffs they received. It isn't just that they got a stun its a pretty good defensive mechanic to have a burst heal tied to a stun. An aoe stun at that. Really helps to land the 2nd hit of beetles. Also, falcons swiftness now grants 4 seconds of snare removal its basically a better version of race against time, which is saying a lot. I feel like I'm missing something, but regardless those are two pretty big changes that help their defense.

Offensively I agree that they kinda lack. I'm sure if you made one specifically to 1v1 they'd be pretty good but in cyrodiil I think you'd be giving up too much defense and would lose your ability to X. So you are left with a fairly predictable burst combo that you must repeat and doesn't really kill good players. But you can X potatoes for days and your aoe armor debuffs are indespensible for your team in any small scale bsttleground-esque type fight.

The only things I lose to are dks and nbs, and always players my skill level or better.

In summary I think its pretty irrefutable that wardens a) were buffed and b) are very strong.

Sorry yeah I guess my message didn't come out very clear. What I meant is that they WERE fine before the patch. Not underperforming. Just fine. Now after the patch they are NOT overpowered but just slightly different and probably a little weaker than before on the offensive side. Personally I'd rather have em the way they were last patch.