It is infuriating how luck plays a major role during matches

CaptainVenom

I mean, seriously ZOS, you need to take a real look at how skills matter little in this card game. It's becoming kinda ridiculous at this point.

This game is brand new and it needs a rework already. Luck should NOT be a dominant factor.

El_Borracho

Its a game of chance, there will always be some luck involved. Obviously, there are matches where the opponent gets all the good cards at the right time. But there is no way to overcome that if you want a card game. Why would anyone want to play a game where the winner is determined beforehand, either by their level or deck?

spartaxoxo

Luck should be a major factor, it's a card game

SeaGtGruff

At times it can seem like it's all luck and no skill, but it's definitely a mixture of luck and skill.

CaptainVenom

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Luck should be a major factor, it's a card game

My post is about ToT, not Poker.

Skvysh

CaptainVenom wrote: »

My post is about ToT, not Poker.

[snip]

If you're going to *** on something, provide at least some arguments why you think it's bad. For example, you could say that power is too cheap, too accessible on some cards and too powerful in comparison to some other effects that cost more and that there aren't enough taunts in the game to counter a straight up power rush. Or how having both an upgraded and a classic version of the card in the game limits unique card opportunities. How the high cost cards aren't as impactful as power houses like Armoury (especially pre-nerf). [snip]

[edited for baiting]

spartaxoxo

CaptainVenom wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Luck should be a major factor, it's a card game

My post is about ToT, not Poker.

Taking turns drawing cards from the tavern is always gonna be inherently luck based. Card games in general have luck as an element. It's part of the point of them, and TOT is no different. A game of chance and skill.

Amottica

El_Borracho wrote: »

Its a game of chance, there will always be some luck involved. Obviously, there are matches where the opponent gets all the good cards at the right time. But there is no way to overcome that if you want a card game. Why would anyone want to play a game where the winner is determined beforehand, either by their level or deck?

Pretty much this. In deck-building games, it comes down to luck all the same. The difference is where luck mostly comes into play.

Amottica

CaptainVenom wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Luck should be a major factor, it's a card game

My post is about ToT, not Poker.

Their post was about ToT, not poker.

Nestor

I am sure the people who play Texas Holdem or Gin Rummy or Blackjack think the same thing...

Lunatearz

I Completely whole heartedly aggree that LUCK should not have THIS much factor. I just lost 7 games ina row SOLELY because of LUCK or should we call it a very bad RNG?

If it was based so much purely on LUCK it would not hand one party the wholematch the upperhand cards.It would be more mixed. Losing 7 games ina row now solely based on luck? Naw man. thats because of the upgraded cards are having too much power and leaves one party left behind far early on in the game.

THAT and the RNG needs serious fixing.. thats not luck.. thats bad rng

Lunatearz

CaptainVenom wrote: »

I mean, seriously ZOS, you need to take a real look at how skills matter little in this card game. It's becoming kinda ridiculous at this point.

This game is brand new and it needs a rework already. Luck should NOT be a dominant factor.

ranked at this point honeslty is a joke.. people in the top 100 have decent skills each of them but if you dont get or cant get the cards due to rng your skills mean didly do whatsoever which makes ranked a JOKE.

I think they should get rid of the scoreboard because its not a score for skills its a score that shows whos getting the best rng. whats there to brag about that makes me wonder lol.

SilverBride

Lunatearz wrote: »

ranked at this point honeslty is a joke.. people in the top 100 have decent skills each of them but if you dont get or cant get the cards due to rng your skills mean didly do whatsoever which makes ranked a JOKE.

I think they should get rid of the scoreboard because its not a score for skills its a score that shows whos getting the best rng. whats there to brag about that makes me wonder lol.

If you do get the good cards but you don't know what to do with them your good luck means nothing, too. Skill isn't getting the best cards. It's knowing how to deal with what you are dealt.

Lunatearz

Therefore i said... people in the top 100 have decent skills... im not talking about beginner players or those that dont understand it well enough or just dont even try to get it.

So what are you trying to say? You quote and respond to me but not to what I actually said.

But kudos for reacting

Heartrage

All cards games are like that. You either have the cards you need or you don’t. If you do have the right cards but don’t use them well you might loose. If you don’t maximize the odds to be in your favor, you will lose in the long run. Tot isn’t any different from other card games because all card games are based on rng.

Lunatearz

Heartrage wrote: »

All cards games are like that. You either have the cards you need or you don’t. If you do have the right cards but don’t use them well you might loose. If you don’t maximize the odds to be in your favor, you will lose in the long run. Tot isn’t any different from other card games because all card games are based on rng.

aggreed but i also know that the rng was a lot better before the cards where upgraded and too powerfull.. NOT all cards have become equally powerfull in upgrades therefore its MORE luck then skill since I havent heard of any chances in the RNG

Skvysh

Lunatearz wrote: »

Heartrage wrote: »

All cards games are like that. You either have the cards you need or you don’t. If you do have the right cards but don’t use them well you might loose. If you don’t maximize the odds to be in your favor, you will lose in the long run. Tot isn’t any different from other card games because all card games are based on rng.

aggreed but i also know that the rng was a lot better before the cards where upgraded and too powerfull.. NOT all cards have become equally powerfull in upgrades therefore its MORE luck then skill since I havent heard of any chances in the RNG

Card upgrades do not affect "the rng". It doesn't matter how many card upgrades are present in the game - the random number generator works the exact same way.

Card upgrades are also meaningless in the grand scheme of things - they usually add 1 additional resource to a card (2 if it's hidden behind a high combo) and therefore have very little impact on the game.

There's also seems to be some fundamental misunderstanding how card upgrades work - the player who chooses a particular deck brings their unlocked upgrades for that deck to the table. So while you might have no upgrades unlocked for any deck, the other player might have all card upgrades for the two decks they choose. But here's the fun part - the way a generic duel deck builder works means that both of you will have a chance to acquire the upgraded card. And even if there's no upgrade present - the basic version of the card will always be there.

The fact that you misunderstand how upgrades work and believe that they somehow "affect the RNG" suggests to me that you're misunderstanding a lot more than that about how to play ToT. There are several ToT guides and plenty of guides on deck builders in general to get a basic understanding of how to play your turns more efficiently and what kind of less known tricks are out there.

Lunatearz

Skvysh wrote: »

Lunatearz wrote: »

Heartrage wrote: »

All cards games are like that. You either have the cards you need or you don’t. If you do have the right cards but don’t use them well you might loose. If you don’t maximize the odds to be in your favor, you will lose in the long run. Tot isn’t any different from other card games because all card games are based on rng.

aggreed but i also know that the rng was a lot better before the cards where upgraded and too powerfull.. NOT all cards have become equally powerfull in upgrades therefore its MORE luck then skill since I havent heard of any chances in the RNG

Card upgrades do not affect "the rng". It doesn't matter how many card upgrades are present in the game - the random number generator works the exact same way.

Card upgrades are also meaningless in the grand scheme of things - they usually add 1 additional resource to a card (2 if it's hidden behind a high combo) and therefore have very little impact on the game.

There's also seems to be some fundamental misunderstanding how card upgrades work - the player who chooses a particular deck brings their unlocked upgrades for that deck to the table. So while you might have no upgrades unlocked for any deck, the other player might have all card upgrades for the two decks they choose. But here's the fun part - the way a generic duel deck builder works means that both of you will have a chance to acquire the upgraded card. And even if there's no upgrade present - the basic version of the card will always be there.

The fact that you misunderstand how upgrades work and believe that they somehow "affect the RNG" suggests to me that you're misunderstanding a lot more than that about how to play ToT. There are several ToT guides and plenty of guides on deck builders in general to get a basic understanding of how to play your turns more efficiently and what kind of less known tricks are out there.

Im talking out of experience and not from theories I dissaggree with you that card upgrades dont matter card cost and effects matter a LOT and the RNG didnt change but the effects did so what would not have such a impact before upgrades will have a tremendous impact fater upgrade.

Lunatearz

Skvysh wrote: »

Lunatearz wrote: »

Heartrage wrote: »

All cards games are like that. You either have the cards you need or you don’t. If you do have the right cards but don’t use them well you might loose. If you don’t maximize the odds to be in your favor, you will lose in the long run. Tot isn’t any different from other card games because all card games are based on rng.

aggreed but i also know that the rng was a lot better before the cards where upgraded and too powerfull.. NOT all cards have become equally powerfull in upgrades therefore its MORE luck then skill since I havent heard of any chances in the RNG

Card upgrades do not affect "the rng". It doesn't matter how many card upgrades are present in the game - the random number generator works the exact same way.

Card upgrades are also meaningless in the grand scheme of things - they usually add 1 additional resource to a card (2 if it's hidden behind a high combo) and therefore have very little impact on the game.

There's also seems to be some fundamental misunderstanding how card upgrades work - the player who chooses a particular deck brings their unlocked upgrades for that deck to the table. So while you might have no upgrades unlocked for any deck, the other player might have all card upgrades for the two decks they choose. But here's the fun part - the way a generic duel deck builder works means that both of you will have a chance to acquire the upgraded card. And even if there's no upgrade present - the basic version of the card will always be there.

The fact that you misunderstand how upgrades work and believe that they somehow "affect the RNG" suggests to me that you're misunderstanding a lot more than that about how to play ToT. There are several ToT guides and plenty of guides on deck builders in general to get a basic understanding of how to play your turns more efficiently and what kind of less known tricks are out there.

To play by guide as how to play your turns suggest that you KNOW what the RNG is which you dont...

Skvysh

Lunatearz wrote: »

card cost and effects matter a LOT and the RNG didnt change but the effects did so what would not have such a impact before upgrades will have a tremendous impact fater upgrade.

Then don't think of them as card upgrades - think of them as completely new cards that have nothing to do with a similar, weaker card in the same deck. Problem solved.

That's what they are, after all - a completely new card. It still follows the same rules - it gets shuffled into the tavern deck if it exists in the match and it may or may not appear throughout the course of the game, giving both players a chance to acquire it. Having a card upgrade present in the game does not tip the scales in anyone's favour because those cards don't magically appear in any one player's decks.

Lunatearz wrote: »

To play by guide as how to play your turns suggest that you KNOW what the RNG is which you dont...

There's more to it than just "RNG" - when to play a specific card, when to force a discard pile shuffle and when to avoid doing that, when to remove enemy's agent and when to preserve your power for prestige instead, when to buy a particular card and when to avoid it, what patron to use on your turn and how, etc. At the start of the turn you're always given a large amount of possibilities - it is true that most of them lead to the same outcome (i.e. early in the game), but later on there are so many different ways to play your hand that it becomes quite obvious when a player knows what they're doing and when they don't.

NeKryXe

CaptainVenom wrote: »

I mean, seriously ZOS, you need to take a real look at how skills matter little in this card game. It's becoming kinda ridiculous at this point.

This game is brand new and it needs a rework already. Luck should NOT be a dominant factor.

Well... lately I've been winning almost every game, at least 9 in each 10 matches. Mostly because almost all players quit during the first 3 to 5 rounds. Yes, I really feel lucky, but those players don't even try their luck. I'd love to play more matches to the end, but I'm enjoying the easy rewards anyway. I believe that many players blaming everything on the bad luck aren't even trying much.

gusthermopyle

LOL.

It's a card game. The deal is based on chance, just like any card game. It's the deal that MAKES it a game of chance and removing that (how would you even do that??) would turn it into something else (not even sure what?)

So ... no. It's a game of chance. Deal with the deal, make the best plays you can, appreciate and learn from others play and try to enjoy the element of luck that is inevitably part of the game.

Lunatearz

NeKryXe wrote: »

CaptainVenom wrote: »

I mean, seriously ZOS, you need to take a real look at how skills matter little in this card game. It's becoming kinda ridiculous at this point.

This game is brand new and it needs a rework already. Luck should NOT be a dominant factor.

Well... lately I've been winning almost every game, at least 9 in each 10 matches. Mostly because almost all players quit during the first 3 to 5 rounds. Yes, I really feel lucky, but those players don't even try their luck. I'd love to play more matches to the end, but I'm enjoying the easy rewards anyway. I believe that many players blaming everything on the bad luck aren't even trying much.

maybe they quit because you play slow? i dont know... or maybe you play the sorc king.. again i dont know those are reasons a lot of players dont care finish a match.. i do that too at times.

Lunatearz

gusthermopyle wrote: »

LOL.

It's a card game. The deal is based on chance, just like any card game. It's the deal that MAKES it a game of chance and removing that (how would you even do that??) would turn it into something else (not even sure what?)

So ... no. It's a game of chance. Deal with the deal, make the best plays you can, appreciate and learn from others play and try to enjoy the element of luck that is inevitably part of the game.

its a fixed rng (its programmed) unlike real life card games.

if for the first 5 hands you cant take any cards due to the rng and you opponenent can its often a lost game. its sad that this is too much a repeating pattern and thats not luck or bad luck thats rng. if it was luck or bad luck you would get lucky too in said game but if its only the opponent that gets lucky the whole match then its the rng ...

Lunatearz

wheter you know or dont know what you are doing if the RNG is workign against you it doesnt matter. you still gonna need the cards to make your plays

Lunatearz

Skvysh wrote: »

Lunatearz wrote: »

its a fixed rng (its programmed) unlike real life card games.

[snip]

[snip]

RNG is not just the cards in the deck that goes on the tavern.. also the rng of the cards you have when they shuffle and you dont get your combos and the other person does you are screwed no matter if you got good cards

[edited for baiting & to remove quote]

kwinter

While luck plays a big part in game I have won games not because of luck but a bad moves by other player. I have had games were other the player could’ve pushed to 40 and won but didn’t which allow me to win several hands later

Lunatearz

wherent you lucky tho that he made a bad move? cause he obviously had better rng or the luck to have a better rng

See LUCK is what determines the game mostly

Lunatearz

before the card upgrades so with the plain decks I had a LOT better games more based on skill then on luck

Snamyap

Lunatearz wrote: »

wherent you lucky tho that he made a bad move? cause he obviously had better rng or the luck to have a better rng

See LUCK is what determines the game mostly

Might as well say that being able to understand the game better than others comes down the genetic RNG... 🤦

Lunatearz

with a better rng luck is truly luck and if the RANDOM number generation is MORE RANDOM it would actually be more like irl cards. currently its not.

the RNG often seems to be in favor of one party which is the reason often one can buy their cards start of game and the other cant which makes it not so RANDOM