Solution to extra tankiness U35 [PvP]: Block Fatigue

LordxSaura

Dear ZOS team and fellow PVP’ers,

Let’s preface this feedback by stating that the current patch is quite balanced within classes in the grand scheme of things (Magsorcs need more love).

We recognize the upcoming U36 releases are pushing a higher dmg and crit sets, which might make fights a bit faster. However, players are experiencing game fatigue due to the extreme tankiness of this patch. U34, had very high burst damage which hurt the small-scale PvP, and beginner PvP experience making it very hard to stay alive in encounters. (Nobody likes to jump into PvP and die within seconds).

U35 now has very high tankiness. We recognize the upcoming U36 releases are pushing a higher dmg and crit sets, which is a good play. However, buffing the damage to fix tankiness continues a cycle of treating the symptoms, not the actual root cause of the problem.

Root Cause of the Tankiness: Healing stacking and being able to perma block for extended amounts, almost infinitely in some cases.

Disclaimer: This post is not about taking permablock tanks out of the game, nor to nerf the tank role or playstyle.

In fact, the proposed changes are about making tanky play styles more dynamic and beneficial instead of just becoming invincible meat shields that sit in the middle of the fight, disrupting the flow of the combat in Cyrodiil. Especially the introduction of the new block mythic can make block tanks more beneficial to their team, and it can simply make the playstyle more fun and dynamic to play.

We suggest the following changes that will only apply to PVP through Battle Spirit:

BLOCK FATIGUE / HEALING FATIGUE

When Battle Spirit is active, block fatigue and healing fatigue should be introduced, similar to dodge roll and streak fatigue.

“Resource cost of holding block is (increased or multiplied) by (x) every (x or a suggested 3) seconds.

Healing is reduced by (x) every (x or a suggested 3) seconds while holding block.

Stacks stay active for 3 seconds after out of block, and then loses a stack every 1s.”

Let’s take a deeper dive into block and healing fatigue separately..

Block Fatigue

Currently, block cost is calculated every 250 ms. So if you get hit 20 times by 12 players within 1 second, it only calculates block cost at 4 times within that second.

Implementing block fatigue similar to dodge roll fatigue can fully kill the perma-blocking playstyle. TO AVOID THAT, a good balance might be ramping the cost just enough that the perma blockers have to drop the block after a certain amount of time they hold the block.

Compared to dodge roll or streak fatigue, the ramping costs should be based on how long they hold block, not fixed amount for certain duration.

The longer the player continuously holds block, the bigger the fatigue will stack, and the longer it will take for the stacks to reset. Reset of the cost should also come after 3 second of cooldown, followed by dropped stacks every second so it's not an instant drop block and start blocking again. This gives enemy players opportunity to land their burst while the target is less likely to hold block. In short, the longer the player holds block, the harder it is to maintain it.

Mathematical Example:

(These numbers and calculations are fully demonstration purposes, the formulas and calculations might not be fully accurate. Example is to simply describe the idea clearly)

Having a block cost under 1,000 stamina, block resource costs will increase by %33 every 3 seconds they are holding the block, in stacking values.

1000 x 33% = 1,330 (stack 1 @ 3 secs)x 33% = 1,769 (stack 2 @6s) x 33% = 2,353 (stack 3 @9 secs) .

Due to increased cost of blocking, block needs to drop and after a certain cooldown X seconds, block cost would reach back to its original cost.

Block fatigue can stay active for 3 seconds after dropping block (to prevent millisecond block spamming) and then stacks are dropped every second making block fatigue fully cleared reducing incrementally to reach its original value.

These changes can make tank playstyle more dynamic as they would have to hold and drop block depending on the combat situation they are in. Considering some of the builds can get very low block costs, they should still be able to hold block for longer durations but not to the points of invincibility versus 20 players. They would actually need to move, kite, drop and start blocking again dynamically forcing them to be more aware instead of just sitting in heals and continuously holding block.

Healing Fatigue

As mentionned in the proposed tooltip above, when Battle Spirit is active, block fatigue should also impact heal stacking.

Another reason some fights are extremely prolonged is that players can hold block, especially tankier players and spam burst heals (read: prevent coagulating blood/massive heal bursts and related ultimates) which resets the fight making them reach full health again. Dropping under execute range in fights should be a lot riskier, and a lot more punishing to increase the pace of the fights.

Healing fatigue should be directly proportional to block fatigue. When the block fatigue is active, for the amount of time you hold the block, healing done (or self healing) should be lowered by (x%).

Healing done is reduced every second exponentially the more block fatigue adds up…and it clears up as the fatigue stacks decrease.

** Pointing out that this should affect healing done OR self-healing and NOT healing received - as having a healer friend to help out should not be penalized. **

Addition

Adding block and healing fatigue while battle spirit is active will not only reduce the “invincible tank” situations, but will eventually reduce the long blocking player’s abilities to have the resources to spam massive burst heals and return to a block stance.

These changes do not target the players (read: damage dealers and healers) that dynamically play, as the initial 3 to even 6 second stack block period is/should not noticeably be punished.

These changes can keep tanking still a very viable and even more enjoyable playstyle in PVP environments.

TLDR - Summary formula of the proposed idea that we can brainstorm on:

Resource cost of holding block is (increased or multiplied) by (x) every (x) seconds [up to (x) stacks.]

Healing done is reduced by (x) every (x) seconds while holding block [up to (x) stacks.]

Fatigue stay active for (X) seconds after out of block, and then loses a stack every (X) seconds.

Things to Consider::
Vet players who mastered game mechanics tend to quick block cast in milliseconds between attacks to improve the combo and cancel some of the animations etc. We don't want this idea to punish those mechanics, and only targeting situations where a player is just holding block continuously. This is where this gets a bit tricky I believe, because I do not know how the code can separate between "holding block" versus "quick block casting, block animation canceling" and implementing block fatigue effectively.

@Nyxenwhite and I have been brainstorming on this and we encourage the community to voice their opinions on these changes, and trust the math wizards at ZOS to bring a fair but worthwhile stack equation to make these changes viable.

If well received, we hope that some of these changes might even be implemented in U36 or realistically after U36 for the pts cycle for U37 for testing purposes.

Obviously, as players we know only so much about how the code works and calculates things and how demanding it can be to put these calculations on servers. However considering, dodge roll fatigue and some of the other complex proc sets have been functioning well, this might be just as well feasible to accomplish within the current framework of the code.

Please comment and give more feedback. We think this is a good starting point to improve on this rough idea. There can be flaws and many points we missed or overlooked.

lexicondevil99

This is an excellent idea, well thought out and presented. If the Dev's aren't reading this and taking it very seriously, than I don't know why we even have forums. Well done.

gariondavey

interesting ideas

Idinuse

Awesome work and ideas. Would be interesting to hear more thoughts.

Deltia

Great ideas here. I like extra stamina when breaking free from block and or a rework of bracing anchor. More cost to block since it's super powerful and can be abused with sword and shield ult.