Mara's Balm... useful in PvE for extreme soloing?

Draxund

Here's the context: I like trying to solo challenging content; I'm currently soloing my way through the Veteran DLC dungeons. Typically I run damage-focused sets with Pale Order (or other healing sources). But there are certain encounters (usually when being immobilized or stunned a lot) where I benefit more from an extra self-heal set, like Leeching Plate. I like Leeching because it will provide heals even when I can't do damage or move around. Anyhow, since Mara's Balm came out, I've had my eye on it as a possible replacement for Leeching Plate when facing sweaty content.

Question: Have any of you tried out Mara's Balm in PvE environments (e.g., challenging dungeons) recently, since its mild nerf? How do you think the healing would compare to Leeching Plate or other self-heal sets?

Thanks for your thoughts!

Necrotech_Master

i think leeching plate is probably still going to be better than maras in a pve context in majority of situations because the trigger is just taking dmg

not every NPC enemies apply status effects/dots although this heavily does depend on the content being done, as some content an enemy will apply a bleed on every hit (but its not always obvious if it is stacking or replacing)

leeching has its own weaknesses such as enemies that move around a lot, but it is generally very reliable and consistent healing in pve

the other problem with mara vs leeching is that leeching also still does dmg, while maras is purely self heals

Draxund

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

not every NPC enemies apply status effects/dots

the other problem with mara vs leeching is that leeching also still does dmg, while maras is purely self heals

These are two really good points! As most things go, everything depends on the encounter, but I think you're points are true for most content. I wish there was a more reliable way to test DPS/damage on sets like Leeching since target dummies don't do damage. I'll probably just look for a "dummy-like" WB or dungeon boss that could serve that purpose.

luchtt

It's terrible due in pve due to needing ''negative effects'' to proc. Pve generally has very little if any negative effects put on you, and if it does happen it generally lasts very long. I can't think of a single situation where leeching or mara's would out value pale order personally.

Necrotech_Master

Draxund wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

not every NPC enemies apply status effects/dots

the other problem with mara vs leeching is that leeching also still does dmg, while maras is purely self heals

These are two really good points! As most things go, everything depends on the encounter, but I think you're points are true for most content. I wish there was a more reliable way to test DPS/damage on sets like Leeching since target dummies don't do damage. I'll probably just look for a "dummy-like" WB or dungeon boss that could serve that purpose.

if your on PC it does show up in combat metrics

it will likely be right around 950-1250 dps depending on how much max health your running (as leeching plate is a tank set, the dmg is scaled off of max health)

i greatly enjoy this set on my tanks, it means i have to worry slightly less about healing and can put a little more focus on dmg, and is great in content like soloing some dlc dungeons (like freaking red petal bastion, god that was annoying cause your almost constantly goated, but leeching still works its magic to keep me alive lol)

Draxund

luchtt wrote: »

It's terrible due in pve due to needing ''negative effects'' to proc. Pve generally has very little if any negative effects put on you, and if it does happen it generally lasts very long.

Okay, I'm convinced... no more thinking about Mara's Balm.

I can't think of a single situation where leeching or mara's would out value pale order personally.

Well that's because you're an insanely skilled player and I'm a casual nobody, haha. I guess the only scenarios where I use Leeching is when I'm immobilized and need the heals until the mechanic wears off. But I imagine there are other ways around it, I just have to get better.

Vevvev

There was a time when the answer actually would've been a yes, but there was a patch (Can't remember if it was the year of Greymoor or Blackwood) that removed many of the status effects and debuffs given by enemies in PvE content.

This cut down massively on the amount of debuffs you'd receive that'd proc Mara's Balm making it less viable than the more direct self heal set types.

Necrotech_Master

Vevvev wrote: »

There was a time when the answer actually would've been a yes, but there was a patch (Can't remember if it was the year of Greymoor or Blackwood) that removed many of the status effects and debuffs given by enemies in PvE content.

This cut down massively on the amount of debuffs you'd receive that'd proc Mara's Balm making it less viable than the more direct self heal set types.

the only debuff i usually see consistently is "hamstrung" which is a slow when most melee enemies hit you from behind

the only other really common debuff i see is arrow spray cause every enemy archer can do this

now as you get to more of the dlc zones, debuffs and dots start to become more common (such as the enemies with the "pin" immobilize), but i agree its still not enough to make maras worthwhile over other sets

fred4

Draxund wrote: »

Here's the context: I like trying to solo challenging content; I'm currently soloing my way through the Veteran DLC dungeons. Typically I run damage-focused sets with Pale Order (or other healing sources). But there are certain encounters (usually when being immobilized or stunned a lot) where I benefit more from an extra self-heal set, like Leeching Plate. I like Leeching because it will provide heals even when I can't do damage or move around. Anyhow, since Mara's Balm came out, I've had my eye on it as a possible replacement for Leeching Plate when facing sweaty content.

Question: Have any of you tried out Mara's Balm in PvE environments (e.g., challenging dungeons) recently, since its mild nerf? How do you think the healing would compare to Leeching Plate or other self-heal sets?

Thanks for your thoughts!

As others have said, NPCs don't put many status effects on you.

I solo on stamsorc. Hurricane keeps proccing Crit Surge even when you are CCd. I don't use ultimates. I use Strategic Reserve instead and avail of sorc's +20% health regen passive. With a potion and gold food it comes to about 3.5K. Mine is basically a Brawler build. The Brawler shield and Master's 2H works wonders for AOE damage and damage mitigation, but Brawler is a very sustain hungry skill. It was, therefore, (much) more important to build into sustain. Heavy sets are out. Resistances aren't all that important. Medium sustain sets are in, e.g. basically Vicious Ophidian and Wretched Vitality in the most sustainy and best solo version of the build. You also need crit for damage and Crit Surge, e.g. Thief mundus and Precise Weapon. Dark Deal on the move covers the gaps when your sustain isn't quite there and is another heal.

Brawler sorc is definitely comfortable. It will do arena 1 of vet Blackrose Prison. It will do many things with ease. It could probably do something like the Cauldron on vet, but vet Dread Cellar has it beat.

I'm actually surprised you mention vet DLC. My general impression is that, where possible, that content is best soloed with a heavy attack mag DK, for example because the Doylemish fight in Scalecaller requires you to stay away from the orbs and nuke them down quickly. I can't imagine a defensive set like Mara or Leeching Plate would do, but as you say, you're just looking for options for different fights. At any rate, I find soloing is all about sustain, be that via heavy attack builds or via something like I'm running.

In theory you can push health regen and tankiness much further than I do, e.g. to 10K+ health regen, via Gaze of Sithis and other options. I don't like Gaze, though. You have to be able to block sometimes. Armor only grants you a max of 50% mitigation. Block mitigation is much higher. It's either that, or knowing mechanics really well and dodge rolling. The Brawler shield also gives you the advantage of a health extension and, thus, greater resistance to one shots. For that you really need sustain.

In some cases, quite a few actually, you need to break otherwise unbreakable CCs with Precognition. This happens in Cradle of Shadows, Fang Lair, lots of places really. Since I specifically built for not using ultimates, I use that ultimate on my stamsorc. In the worst cases you need Major and Minor Heroism, which was easily possible with Oakensoul and potions last patch. This gets Precognition up much faster. Although I didn't try, you could possibly do the Doylemish fight with a Brawler melee build that way. To be honest, I only attempted that on normal so far.

When you say DLC dungeons, I'd be curious which ones. Many have stumbling blocks, even on normal. The constant CCs and boss healing in the Moonhunter maze are a complete pain. Dread Cellar - I'd like to see you even get past the initial batch of mobs solo and to the first boss on vet. I might have done that once, but I literally had to exploit artificial boundaries that some of the mob groups don't cross, and even then it was borderline and time consuming.

Funnily enough, I haven't actually supplemented my healing with Pale Order on the stamsorc yet, because the combination of Crit Surge, health regen, Brawler and Dark Deal is so strong. Maybe that's what I was missing, hahaha.

One of the issues with Brawler is that, when you have to block something, your sustain really suffers. Sustaining the shield every second is everything on that type of build and blocking ,of course, cuts your regen. Using some cost reduction can help and, next patch, maybe that new magicka blocking mythic could help. It would allow you to swing Brawler while blocking with magicka. In fact, if you were able to get block cost down sufficiently - all medium, Sturdy, Steadfast's Mettle + Vicious Ophidian let's say, that could be extremely powerful.