Warden - Change Scorch into an instant cast cooldown ability?

Klingenlied

I wonder what the community thinks on this one.

A lot of discussions have revolved around this skill, as has the skill evolved - or devolved - over the years.
We do now have a skill that fires after 3 and 9 seconds, only if at the time it resolves the character is correctly aligned at the boss. Dare you play mechanics, dare you letting your opponent dodge it, dare you're team killing trash faster than the 9 seconds it takes for the highest damage portion to hit!

In my opinion, making the skill activate instantly with a slight delay on the damage portion (not as much as birds, still enough for players to react in PvP) and only hit a single time before entering a cooldown would be the perfect solution in my eyes. What do you think about it?

ESO_Nightingale

Not enough options, let me answer in the thread ..

Honestly they should both be 6s long and hit at intervals of 3. They should have major breach baseline but gain different morph effects that increase their damage. Sub would do bleed dmg and apply a small 3 second dot, and deep fissure, renamed and dmg type changed to frost, and it's effect would make it hit harder on sucessive hits. Something to that effect.

Dangranma_Burgrukgad

I main a Warden - keep Scorch & it's morphs as it is.

Very funny when you are in a corridor miles away from the previous fight, with no one around, and the 9s seconds burst come.
it's just so embarrassing, please guys don't mind me, not my fault if this skill is so dumb.

Elendir2am

I do not main / play a Warden - keep Scorch & it's morphs as it is.

Your suggested change would robe warden of delayed damage skill.
Delayed damage skills are important part of burst damage (you timing your delayed damage with your spammable attack). So this would nerf warden a lot.

Klingenlied

I main a Warden - make Scorch & it's morphs instant cast & add a cooldown.

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Honestly they should both be 6s long and hit at intervals of 3. They should have major breach baseline but gain different morph effects that increase their damage. Sub would do bleed dmg and apply a small 3 second dot, and deep fissure, renamed and dmg type changed to frost, and it's effect would make it hit harder on sucessive hits. Something to that effect.

Hmm. So I can assume that you overall like the effect of not having to recast every 3 seconds "as of old" and do not mind having to take care of a delayed action but the primary concern is the damage type? Don't think though this will ever change actually. With the passive changing from frost / magic to all damage, we are instead moving slightly away from this kind of Frost Warden. Guess good'ol Brittleden will be to stay - with no major changes in regards to the whole kit.

MrLasagna wrote: »

Very funny when you are in a corridor miles away from the previous fight, with no one around, and the 9s seconds burst come.
it's just so embarrassing, please guys don't mind me, not my fault if this skill is so dumb.

But you still want to keep it? Well, interesting, hope to get more opinions on this

Klingenlied

I main a Warden - make Scorch & it's morphs instant cast & add a cooldown.

Elendir2am wrote: »

Your suggested change would robe warden of delayed damage skill.
Delayed damage skills are important part of burst damage (you timing your delayed damage with your spammable attack). So this would nerf warden a lot.

This is pretty much what I have waited for. Reason being: would it really? Or would it even be too strong?
See, for me the skill with both casts does ~30k damage unbuffed, non crit. Landing it against unexperienced players is trivial. Landing it against versed PvP'ers is close to impossible outside of well timed stuns assuming no other player is using cc-effects. If we instead changed the skill to a instand cast, 20k damage 6 second cooldown skill, we would have lower PvE-dps (we miss out one spamable) and a lower possible maximum spike (spamable & shalks combined go for ~27k) for a higher spike frequence (all 6 instead of 9 seconds) and easier time hitting it.

Now for the PvE-part, though that might be a dps loss on the dummy, it likely would be no loss / extra dps in almost all fights where there is movement, turning, teleporting bosses or switching targets. Simply for almost eliminating the chance of the skill firing away while you just were turning or whatever.

Dangranma_Burgrukgad

I main a Warden - keep Scorch & it's morphs as it is.

Klingenlied wrote: »

But you still want to keep it? Well, interesting, hope to get more opinions on this

The fact is, every time they touch warden they just do some more strange thing with it, I'd prefer they stop messing with it.

Look at the advanced species passive, are they just tossing some dice every month to decide what it should do?

YandereGirlfriend

Not enough options, let me answer in the thread ..

Tick at 3 seconds and 6 seconds. The 9 second tick is and always will be an atrocious mangling of the rhythm of the skill.

There seems to be a mission to undermine the viability of this ability at any cost, however.

Elendir2am

I do not main / play a Warden - keep Scorch & it's morphs as it is.

Klingenlied wrote: »

This is pretty much what I have waited for. Reason being: would it really? Or would it even be too strong?
See, for me the skill with both casts does ~30k damage unbuffed, non crit. Landing it against unexperienced players is trivial. Landing it against versed PvP'ers is close to impossible outside of well timed stuns assuming no other player is using cc-effects. If we instead changed the skill to a instand cast, 20k damage 6 second cooldown skill, we would have lower PvE-dps (we miss out one spamable) and a lower possible maximum spike (spamable & shalks combined go for ~27k) for a higher spike frequence (all 6 instead of 9 seconds) and easier time hitting it.

Now for the PvE-part, though that might be a dps loss on the dummy, it likely would be no loss / extra dps in almost all fights where there is movement, turning, teleporting bosses or switching targets. Simply for almost eliminating the chance of the skill firing away while you just were turning or whatever.

If it have instant casting time, then it would be spammable. ZOS would treat as spammable. This meant that damage would be high as spammable damage. All delayed damage has higher damage than spammable, because it is different type of skills. You need to apply them accordingly into your rotation.
So, instant cast = lower damage for one cast = nerf of warden.

Caribou77

Not enough options, let me answer in the thread ..

Part of the problem with Magwarden specifically, is that its spammable has been broken forever (esp for pvp).

With birds of no use, Magwarden has to lean hard on Deep Fissure. And even Pre35, df was challenging to land in pvp.

Based on zos’ track record, I don’t think slow dodgeable birds will ever be fixed (but they will keep messing with the skill in awkward ways you wouldn’t have imagined plausible).

The best I can hope is that shalks will do frost damage so that we can eek a tiny bit of synergy out of frost reach, arctic blast, and frost shalks.

Trying to find a build that synergizes with Magwarden skills is demoralizing.

Klingenlied

I main a Warden - make Scorch & it's morphs instant cast & add a cooldown.

Caribou77 wrote: »

Part of the problem with Magwarden specifically, is that its spammable has been broken forever (esp for pvp).

With birds of no use, Magwarden has to lean hard on Deep Fissure. And even Pre35, df was challenging to land in pvp.

Based on zos’ track record, I don’t think slow dodgeable birds will ever be fixed (but they will keep messing with the skill in awkward ways you wouldn’t have imagined plausible).

The best I can hope is that shalks will do frost damage so that we can eek a tiny bit of synergy out of frost reach, arctic blast, and frost shalks.

Trying to find a build that synergizes with Magwarden skills is demoralizing.

Hmm .. do you really think they will give us frost skills? The community is asking for so long. Balance in theory is so easy. The math behind everything is so easy. The devs themselves however don't even realize what they are changing - thinking after U35 they deal more damage and don't know the dummy has been buffed up. They tell us lies in regards that we have to spam shalks every 3 seconds to get the most damage - a 4th grader can mathematically proof that is not the case!
The game is bleeding away players and what have we got?

Warden getting nerfed and confined further. Boring new content. No new Arena or stuff. Instead additions to the cardgame. Like .. to me this feels like the year of ESO I did not want!

Soarora

I main a Warden - keep Scorch & it's morphs as it is.

I used to hate the skill but now I’ve been loving learning timing and aiming. Casting while running towards combat for that perfect timing, walking backwards so I don’t accidentally pull… I find it good fun.

Aelorin

Not enough options, let me answer in the thread ..

Jsut go back to where it was?

3 second delay with burst. Other option is 3 second delay and 6 second delay, but not 3 and 9 seconds that is way too long and difficult to manage.

Caribou77

Not enough options, let me answer in the thread ..

I would be pretty happy if they reverted back to pre 35: a 3 second burst (with ~30% more damage).

But I don't think they will ever do that.

If someone on combat dev played MagWarden in pvp for a decent amount of time, they might appreciate how lacking MW's offensive abilities are, and how the pre 35 Deep Fissure was barely holding MW together.

Having played MW pvp the past couple of years, it is my firm belief that the players who regularly comment on this forum regarding the class (Nightingale, Mr Stach, Yandere Girlfriend) have a much more accurate and comprehensive understanding of the class than seems to be demonstrated by the changes made by the dev team.

Honestly, I think I'm suffering from the constant update/change fatigue people are complaining about. I'm tired of trying to make my favorite class work and having the leg pulled out from under the table any time I get close to a build/playstyle I'm happy with for MagWarden.

OBJnoob

Everything else aside... I'll just never support having cooldowns on abilities in this game. Why on earth would we want that? I'm assuming you just said it to try and pre-empt anybody that said it'd be OP as an instacast. But as someone else already said, its the fact that its not instacast that makes it so good anyway. For PvP anyway.

My honest opinion is that people just need to get used to 6 seconds instead of 3. Warden has an on demand stun now... Landing that 2nd hit should be easier than ever before.

And let's not say "well what if somebody else stunned my target when I didn't want," because anybody could say that about anything.

And let's not say "I can't keep track of the new timer," but at the same time claim that its soooo easy to avoid by decent players. How the heck is your enemy tracking your beetles better than you and you have a buff timer on your screen??

Hate to say it but this is a big fat L2P issue. I have some sympathy for those that already know how to play and now have to adjust but only a little. 3 more seconds. How many days do you need? Took me like 1 hour.

And also... Someone up there proposed a change and then admitted it would hurt pve warden. That is hugely unacceptable. Pve warden sucks. PvP warden is great.

Caribou77

Not enough options, let me answer in the thread ..

The new stun is nice, But if you were talking about PVP Magden, I dont agree.

Pvp Stamden Is in a pretty good spot because you can use dual wield or two handed.

nesmewno

Not enough options, let me answer in the thread ..

Oh, I remember those times shaks have stun.