U35 and Accessibility fault? -> worst tank shortage ever?

Klingenlied

Dunno about other platforms. But at least on PSN, for normal trial stuff when you just swiftly want gear for new builds, you go to craglorn and run those to get your stickerbook done. Vet or Vet HM just isn't suitable to farm multiple times a day. And there is a lot of dps searching. A lot of heals. They don't find anything pretty much. And I kinda dislike running everything solo tank, especially when often times mechanics get ignored and you needa tank through enrage stuff with maybe one dd that throws a occasional heal - if still alive.

Same for my raiding guild. Run today? Canceled, tank doesn't want to come. My big "pugging" guild? Na, hardly any experienced players that want to do content

Maybe that whole issue could be even described as "experienced player shortage"? I just don't know Feels weird those days ^^

AcadianPaladin

When pugging as a tank, the biggest thing I want from my group is damage (and to let me initiate the fights). U35 nerfed damage so any group I get will do less damage. No thank you.

Hasenpfote

Spending 2 hours in a dungeon is boring, when fake dps do 0-5k dps per second.

During the current event, the number of fake dps is ridiculous. If the first Boss of a VET dungeons falls after 10 minute of dungeon start, you know it will be a big timewaste to keep in this dungeon.

MudcrabAttack

DPS queuing a random vet still seems to fill with a group pretty fast, maybe a minute or two on PCNA. There’s usually someone else in group searching for gear

smackinhippies

I'm in multiple raiding guilds (discord and in-game) and they are all struggling filling rosters right now (esp tanks) since U35 dropped. I think a lot of these folks decided to sit it out for awhile. I had two competitive 100k dps builds for PVE (templar and sorc), I shelved my templar this patch and haven't worked yet on my sorc with the changes, probably wont bother.

Kusto

I used to tank pug dlc vet dungeons and trials with random more casuals etc. Dps was often low but bearable. But we all have our limits. U35 dropped everyones dps by 20% or even more in some cases. So the already low dps that pugs had is now complete slog to run anything. Its below my threshold anyways.

stevenyaub16_ESO

I've tanked almost all content (got unchained as tank) but after first clears, I find myself DDing most of the time because tanking in majority of content is frankly boring, and doesn't feel as rewarding.

I almost never pug as a tank, because getting bad DDs is an excruciating experience. As a DD you can atleast carry a bad group.

Gruumsh1

I do pugs on my tank because it's the fastest way to get into a dungeon. When I get there it essentially boils down to the dps running ahead and killing stuff with me doing practically no tanking. No wonder there's a shortage. We're almost pointless these days. It's why there's a fake tank epidemic. 4 DPS kills things quicker and people just can't be bothered waiting to finish things they have to constantly repeat for content.

Klingenlied

Gruumsh1 wrote: »

I do pugs on my tank because it's the fastest way to get into a dungeon. When I get there it essentially boils down to the dps running ahead and killing stuff with me doing practically no tanking. No wonder there's a shortage. We're almost pointless these days. It's why there's a fake tank epidemic. 4 DPS kills things quicker and people just can't be bothered waiting to finish things they have to constantly repeat for content.

Ah I actually do not really talk about "solo content" - including everything on normal. We got new dungeons. Graven Deep endboss? Pug-killer! Overall, you don't want to run dlc vet without a tank. Same for any kind of trial - you just need a tank for trials.

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

When pugging as a tank, the biggest thing I want from my group is damage (and to let me initiate the fights). U35 nerfed damage so any group I get will do less damage. No thank you.

That's pretty much what I want as a tank - and from a tank as well. I think a lot of content can still be done swiftly too, but it massively depends on the party. And sorry for some elitism here, but: If people have trouble delivering in high end content - and this is mostly true for dps - they should stay out of it.

oli.j.reillyb16_ESO

Several years of *** easy mode changes like new CP and boring AFK set design was bound to have a negative effect on an already underserved role within the community. Runaway damage only compounded the issue of how simplistic most tanking is these days.

Then whenever there is the occasional challenging fight - it’s blatantly overtuned like Bahsei HM. Feedback is ignored for months and the few (singular) tools for dealing with it get nerfed unnecessarily.

Supports have gone unsupported by these devs for the last 4-5yrs because of the overlap with PvP and lack of vision in dealing with that balance issue. Nevermind the DPS community relentlessly informing support mains about how they aren’t really needed every five minutes.

Reap what you sow!

SPR_of_HA_community

HA builds are nerfed, the same time change to HA - makes one of the best and interesting builds in game like - some noob build with low DPS. It was disrespect to HA players.

On LA - rotations feels bad and you do not get fun from play.

As a result - exp players do not want to play.

A lot of tanks was helped by exp players. They do not see reason to tank and help people who make their friends leave the game.

The same time - I do not see any reason to help any body now if I get no profit from it.

So you get - what you get.

Exp players do not already want new builds because they are tired to get nerfs, so you have nobody to walk with.

Dem_kitkats1

DPS is King in this game, and players will justify it until they actually need supports. When 75% of content is unengaging for supports, it's no wonder that people don't want to play them, and now those who were experienced are no longer being replaced when they leave.

Dungeons, which are the stepping stones to getting into trials, are a mess and an abysmal experience for supports. New players don't get the experience they need to even consider supporting in raid teams. Experienced supports get bored in them, or have to swap to dps anyway. This is very much the result of inexperienced dps players expecting fake supports in their groups and are too worried about survival rather than damage. And now, thanks to U35, whatever damage they have is even lower. When it comes to more difficult content supporting is usually a series of buff/debuff botting, because dps players have access to eveything they need to complete it themselves. Again, by allowing content to be unengaging, as well as achievable without supports, people won't play them.

The problem is that you can't expect the trinity design in endgame content to be accessible when journey there is ambiguous when it comes to fulfilling roles. Reward and overly empower one role, and the majority of players will chose that one, leaving the support population available for endgame content to become exceptionally low.

Amottica

If this is about getting tanks via the GF, most tanks avoid queueing solo to start with as we prefer to run with known players to avoid the pitfalls often found in GF groups.

As such, it is easy to perceive a tank shortage in the GF since players themselves create the shortage on purpose.

moleculardrugs

I queue for tanking stuff with group finder. I wish there was a service where players could rank tanks. Not to brag, but not only do I know where most of these treasure chests are, but I can explain the mechanics to the group very clearly and concisely. However, I only do it when it comes to normal. I would rather find friends on my FL or guild that would help with vet content. DPS is very low at this time like many other tanks have said.

However, I have always been reluctant to queue for vet group finder because of how toxic people are. If you build deviates from the normal just a bit, and I mean just a bit like if you use an ice staff versus S&B, pugs will say the most hurtful stuff to you based off of your own playing style. It's a random queue vet run, and so I wear heavier armor because I don't know what I'll encounter. Pugs will purposely speed up when you ask them to slow down because you can't sprint. They'll pull bosses and not wait for you to be ready. It's a total nightmare on PC/NA to do a vet pug random daily dungeon.

Edit: so I guess what I'm saying is, it's not just a bad update in terms of combat, but we are also experiencing a lot of hate from players who look down on us or who don't consider our feelings when we play in a dungeon. I used to enjoy helping people, but I once queued with a friend for a random vet (2-3 weeks ago) and it was Cradle of Shadows, the DPS' in that dungeon did everything I listed above. It made me not want to play the game anymore or to just avoid vet content altogether. I get happy when my friends or guild asks for roles to be filled (like the other day we successfully completed Vet Graven Deep and it felt like a great accomplishment!). Other than that, I avoid GF for public vet stuff.

svendf

I can only speak for myself. My day´s in dungeon and trial content was numberd a year or so back. leveling a tank in a normal dungeon isn´t fun - dd´s running ahead. It´s like you are not there, sometimes it was fun and rewarding. Healer leveling or dungeon runs, was the same, sometimes fun and I had my dps. Most of the time it was a speed contest.

I ended up whit a conclution to stop. Why would I help people, who run over me in easy normal or DLC dungeons, just to help the same people in harder content. It all stopped, when I was asked to help in a Vet dungeon on one of my healers (the other healer had left) and soon discovered, why. They had skiped almost everything. I had to run and fight "alone" from start to last boss, withoud going down. I had my two victory´s that evening, with some luck or skill, doesn´t really matter.

I never helped these people again and found another game to run dungeons.

Dem_kitkats1

Amottica wrote: »

If this is about getting tanks via the GF, most tanks avoid queueing solo to start with as we prefer to run with known players to avoid the pitfalls often found in GF groups.

As such, it is easy to perceive a tank shortage in the GF since players themselves create the shortage on purpose.

This is true for the most part, but doesn't explain why guilds and raid teams are now experiencing difficulties in finding players to fill in tank positions for end game content, as op has observed. This an indication that there is an accessibility issue in getting support players to the experience needed to fill in the positions for endgame content. And now players are actually experiencing the repercussions of that, as many vet players left due to U35 with very few players able or willing to replace them.

Amottica

Dem_kitkats1 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

If this is about getting tanks via the GF, most tanks avoid queueing solo to start with as we prefer to run with known players to avoid the pitfalls often found in GF groups.

As such, it is easy to perceive a tank shortage in the GF since players themselves create the shortage on purpose.

This is true for the most part, but doesn't explain why guilds and raid teams are now experiencing difficulties in finding players to fill in tank positions for end game content, as op has observed. This an indication that there is an accessibility issue in getting support players to the experience needed to fill in the positions for endgame content. And now players are actually experiencing the repercussions of that, as many vet players left due to U35 with very few players able or willing to replace them.

Maybe. However, raid groups I have been in here in ESO and other games have had requirements for tanks from the player ability to the use of specific sets. We do not accept just any player who considers them a tank. Sometimes it will take some searching to find a new tank when one leaves.

Also, each of us sees a very small portion of the server, Rarely will that reflect the activities of the server as a whole. This is illustrated in the guilds I am active in where we have tanks for our raids and dungeons.

Ragnarok0130

Dem_kitkats1 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

If this is about getting tanks via the GF, most tanks avoid queueing solo to start with as we prefer to run with known players to avoid the pitfalls often found in GF groups.

As such, it is easy to perceive a tank shortage in the GF since players themselves create the shortage on purpose.

This is true for the most part, but doesn't explain why guilds and raid teams are now experiencing difficulties in finding players to fill in tank positions for end game content, as op has observed. This an indication that there is an accessibility issue in getting support players to the experience needed to fill in the positions for endgame content. And now players are actually experiencing the repercussions of that, as many vet players left due to U35 with very few players able or willing to replace them.

In the raid groups I'm running with after U35 we're constantly searching for DPS because our support spots of tanks and healers are still occupied. Given we've lost some tanks post U35 but we had backups but I can't remember ever having to search for DPS to fill a raid roster in zone chat for 30 minutes before U35. The lack of DPS players is the biggest post U35 surprise for me.

edited to clean up wording

DigiAngel

Just go to Cyrodill...you'll be up to your ears in tanks

MudcrabAttack

My PVE guild has weathered the storm pretty well, the numbers have gone up, but maybe that’s from other guilds dissolving. In the past few weeks I’m noticing more tanks and healers popping up as backups on the guild trial roster, fewer DPS than before, and much higher average group DPS in trials than a few weeks ago. We’re not bleeding edge end gamers, but always doing vet DLC trials.

Maybe there’s just a lot of shuffling around or leaving happening, but the average damage in random vet group finder also seems to be getting higher, which I’m sure has nothing to do with accessibility and everything to do with people no longer queuing