Players who immediately start spamming the Orgnum Patron

SilverBride

Why? What benefit is there to using this Patron on the first turn? We don't have any good power producing cards yet so what is there to gain this early in the game?

I like this deck because I like a lot of its cards, and do not even turn the Patron until I've built a decent deck. The exception being if my opponent keeps spamming him every turn because I am not going to let them keep favor.

I chose Orgnum in a game today and this is what my opponent immediately started to do. I had to waste coins to turn him back to neutral every turn that I could have used for cards. I did let it ride once while I picked a good power card. That is when my opponent basically stopped playing and ended the rest of their turns without playing any cards. I was baffled by what they thought they were going to accomplish and why they just gave up without even trying.

If this is a strategy I don't understand it.

spartaxoxo

Orgnum is a cheap deck that has built up a lot of resentment. Many people would rather play in a hostile way for having to bear playing against it, without nearly as much strategic thinking about it because they are focused on the salt it brings.

Vulsahdaal

SilverBride wrote: »

Why? What benefit is there to using this Patron on the first turn? We don't have any good power producing cards yet so what is there to gain this early in the game?

I like this deck because I like a lot of its cards, and do not even turn the Patron until I've built a decent deck. The exception being if my opponent keeps spamming him every turn because I am not going to let them keep favor.

I chose Orgnum in a game today and this is what my opponent immediately started to do. I had to waste coins to turn him back to neutral every turn that I could have used for cards. I did let it ride once while I picked a good power card. That is when my opponent basically stopped playing and ended the rest of their turns without playing any cards. I was baffled by what they thought they were going to accomplish and why they just gave up without even trying.

If this is a strategy I don't understand it.

I never use Orgnum. As it stands now there really isnt much strategy to it.

When I see Orgnum get picked, I dont think that my opponent chose this deck for interesting, strategic challenge (any other deck would serve this purpose) but its more for a quick game of lets keep spamming the button back and forth and see what happens.

Your opponent may have been rather disappointed when you picked it, and just did what they believed to be expected of them. Still, I believe it was commendable that they stuck it out and didnt concede in order to give you the win before moving on to the next game.

Sin_Arcain

Why? Maybe the player didn't know any better, because this is the example they saw, or it could have been a bait, or something else.

Regardless, I find that if they start turning it early, letting them keep favour won't generate lots of value for them. In the meantime I can build a strong deck and take it over later.

jaws343

The sooner you use it, you force a few things on your opponent.

1. You may force them to use the patron as well, which means both of you are now racing for cheap tavern cards and patron usage. For a player going second, this could be beneficial if your opponent chose a non gold card first turn, meaning there is potential that a handful of turns they will not be able to afford to use the patron.
2. You force your opponent to ignore the patron. In which case, your next turn, using the patron not only grants you points, it also gives you cards that add to your score and increase the value of using the patron.
3. You break their strategy, or even keep them away from more damaging Patrons. That level of disruption can win a match if they aren't prepared to play an orgnum spam game or they make poor card purchases around the orgnum spam.

SilverBride

What I don't understand is why they don't try to play the deck well instead of sabotaging their own game, too. When someone chooses Rajhin, which I don't enjoy, I still try to play well and don't just spam bewilder nonstop.

El_Borracho

jaws343 wrote: »

The sooner you use it, you force a few things on your opponent.

1. You may force them to use the patron as well, which means both of you are now racing for cheap tavern cards and patron usage. For a player going second, this could be beneficial if your opponent chose a non gold card first turn, meaning there is potential that a handful of turns they will not be able to afford to use the patron.
2. You force your opponent to ignore the patron. In which case, your next turn, using the patron not only grants you points, it also gives you cards that add to your score and increase the value of using the patron.
3. You break their strategy, or even keep them away from more damaging Patrons. That level of disruption can win a match if they aren't prepared to play an orgnum spam game or they make poor card purchases around the orgnum spam.

Well said. One thing I have done when a player picks the Orgnum patron is I refuse to pick any patron that has built-in high power card like Pelin or Ansei, if possible. Typically go with Crow and Hlaalu or Rajhin. Then play the RNG game when the spamming begins and hope for 2-3 coin Orgnum, Crow, or treasury cards.

But overall, Orgnum is a lame deck. There is only punishment for not countering your opponent's spamming with spamming. Trying to hold out for powerful cards worth more than 6 coin is pointless and eliminates them from the game.

And if you can get a hold of the Freebooter card early, forget about it. If your opponent can't knock it out, its almost a lock

SilverBride

I keep hearing how to counter the Orgnum deck but why not just play it? It doesn't matter who chose it, both players can use it.

I've played several games where one of us had chosen Orgnum and neither immediately started spamming the patron. We built out decks and had a fun game.

One of the most unusual games I ever played was with Orgnum, Red Eagle, Rajhin and Ansei. At first I thought it was going to be a nightmare but I went with it and it was a fun game.

spartaxoxo

Vulsahdaal wrote: »

. Still, I believe it was commendable that they stuck it out and didnt concede in order to give you the win before moving on to the next game.

Since U35, wins through concession still properly awards wins for dailies. So, ending turns doesn't do anything but waste your opponent's time.

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

I keep hearing how to counter the Orgnum deck but why not just play it? It doesn't matter who chose it, both players can use it.

I've played several games where one of us had chosen Orgnum and neither immediately started spamming the patron. We built out decks and had a fun game.

One of the most unusual games I ever played was with Orgnum, Red Eagle, Rajhin and Ansei. At first I thought it was going to be a nightmare but I went with it and it was a fun game.

I don't have Orgnum and not interested in picking it myself atm because I'm running through quests in a certain order. I don't like playing against Orgnum because honestly it just makes me irrationally annoyed when a human picks it. I hate it. It's actually not that bad when I am forced to play against it with an NPC, maybe because I don't feel any annoyance at the npc since it's RNG rather than a deliberate choice. I know it's not a good attitude about it and since the U35 patch, I am starting to work on it because it's not fair to the other player. I suspect it's the same for others.

El_Borracho

@SilverBride the deck itself is a fun and well-built deck for combos. The problem is the patron never really lets you see the potential for the deck. The way it is currently set up, I don't know why there are even agents, although I stand by what I said about the Freebooter. Oof.

I should have said it was a lame patron, not deck. The spamming eliminates strategies you have built into other decks. It turns the game into Hungry Hungry Hippos with one player hoping to get a golden ball.

spartaxoxo

El_Borracho wrote: »

I should have said it was a lame patron, not deck. The spamming eliminates strategies you have built into other decks. It turns the game into Hungry Hungry Hippos with one player hoping to get a golden ball.

Actually, you know what, I agree. I actually don't know the Orgnum cards too well because of the patron. It completely changes the game in a way that's really unfun to me, but the cards themselves I actually can't recall having many issues with. Of course, I hardly play against them either.

SeaGtGruff

I'm pretty sure I've seen posts in this forum where players who hate the Orgnum patron have basically said that they're going to use the spamming-from-turn-1 strategy out of spite whenever their opponent chooses the Orgnum patron for the match.

My guess is that in the past they lost one or more matches to opponents who'd chosen Orgnum and used it effectively, but they themselves haven't actually learned how to best use it strategically, or maybe they just despise it so much because they think they're better at knowing what a good design for a deck looks like and Orgnum ain't it (the old "I know game design far better than this game's developers do" syndrome), so they just start spamming it from turn 1 to be annoying and then resort to trolling their opponent with the do-nothing-and-just-let-the-timer-run-out-each-turn move when they see that simply spamming Orgnum isn't winning them the match.

Edit: Personally, I love it when my opponent chooses Orgnum or Rajhin. I used to hate it, but I eventually got better at working out strategies for using-- or trying to counteract-- those decks. I haven't collected them yet, myself, so the only time I get to play with them is when my opponent chooses them.

stevenyaub16_ESO

I've won around 8/10 orgnum game by being the first to start the spam. So it's a valid strat.