Was the intention to make Silver Shards and Blazing spear a better spammable than jabs?

UnassumingNoob

Was the intention too nerf jabs too the point it’s inferior too two other AoE ‘spammables’? I was watching Luca Cash parses and both of these out perform jabs.

Is this your plan for the skill? Is this intended or will you be buffing it in two months?

xthrshx

I’ve been asking this as well. An answer would be nice.

This seems like the unintended consequence of miscalculated balance changes. But maybe it’s what they want. If so, why? Why would an AOE DOT produce more single target damage as a spammable than the skill that was literally designed as the class spammable?

And if you want to reduce templars’ reliance on jabs, why not provide acceptable class alternatives? For example, make a viable ranged spammable out of javelin. Or even make a morph of shards that isn’t a DOT and actually functions like an intended spammable. Give us a semi-spammable option with a morph of any of our unused skills.

It genuinely seems like none of these changes were thought through and there is no roadmap. I’d appreciate any insight ZOS can provide on their vision for the Templar class.

UnassumingNoob

Agree - I can’t make heads nor tails of it. Did they get feedback from new pvp players that it was too oppressive? I understand not wanting to pigeonhole the class into just using jabs or face a huge dps loss…but they gave us nothing extra except a buffed execute. Damage was gutted in so many ways. And we still have so many useless outdated passives.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

I, too, wonder this. But I fear zos' "fix" may be to just nerf everything else a Templar has even further in response, such as blazing spear.

El_Borracho

I don't understand the rationale for nuking the signature skill for Templars, one that defines the class and is a spammable no other class has. By comparison, they did this with Nightblades and Reaper's Mark and Ambush (with the Berserk changes) and Cripple. To the point you are better off using a weapon-based skills instead of class-based for spammables.

The point of ESO classes was to have multiple ways and styles to play. Templar was always a bit underpowered but had good heals. Nightblade was very powerful, but risky and exposed. These Templar changes, along with hybridization, confirm my fears that they are trying to make changes to DDs that are cosmetic

deleted221205-002626

UnassumingNoob wrote: »

Was the intention too nerf jabs too the point it’s inferior too two other AoE ‘spammables’? I was watching Luca Cash parses and both of these out perform jabs.

Is this your plan for the skill? Is this intended or will you be buffing it in two months?

Its not inferior.. It has a considerable heal attached to it that also stacks with pale order. As an easy mode spamable its still by far the best out there!

They also INCREASED the aoe dmg factor if I'm not mistaken so single target might be lower but the aoe on adds should help some!

EldritchSun

I believe Templars and DKs were two classes with the best spammables in the game (Nightblades are 50/50), ZoS couldn't let it exist, and now the ClAsS dIvErSiTy has striken them too. Welcome to the arbalests' club.

merpins

Feels like, to me, the intention was to make everyone hate Jabs. For the players that love the skill animation and would use it even through nerfs, they changed the animation. For everyone else, they nerfed it into the ground. I'd personally fall into the first camp, and would use the skill even if it got nerfed into the ground because it's my favorite skill. But the animation change makes it a skill I'd never use regardless of how much damage it could do.

BahometZ

There have been a lot of comments over the years that templar was a one class skill, you basically had to jab, it was too strong not to, no spammable could compete, nothing else could proc burning light.

The recent change to burning light is good for opening up class rotation, the nerf is unfortunate (though understandable), but the nerf to jabs is quite sad; it seems like a very typical zos decision to open up skill options not by strengthening other options, but by nerfing the strongest. Again and again this has been their philosophy, and while understandable from a resource perspective, it is years of this mindset that has eroded player regard and expectation. I doubt they'll ever change, and while this philosophy continues, they will continue to have a combative player base that scoffs at dev decisions.

The animation change of jabs is really unfortunate, it looks bad, and is just a very poor decision that is difficult to understand.

It would be good if templar could be a viable ranged class (like perhaps having the magic morph of javelin be a ranged spammable, with a damage boost required). But that won't ever happen, because it makes too much sense. I mean, look how long zos has gone without creating a stam whip, despite it being the most obvious thing in the world.

Militan1404

Templars need a big over-haul, its so outdated that its not even funny. Sweeps is just one of many class defefining skills they have taken from them, blazing shield used to be one, but now needs a big re-worke. And the took away blinding flashes. And the passives needs a big change, strangly one of them that actually fits the templar they changed to useless. Templar used to be a stand his ground class that had his strenght when stood in his holy rings and reflected damage, then they made it to the spam spear class instead, and now they took the last pice of identity it had left an made it the healer class. The devs really proved their incompetence with this update and that we shoulndt trust them a bit for balansing this game. Sorcerer is another class i feel they have guted, im a dk as main but still feel sick of how they threated some of the other classes. And when they miss the mark that much as they did with this update, its a shame we have to wait 3 months in hope for a fix from the state the game is in now.

UnassumingNoob

sinnereso wrote: »

UnassumingNoob wrote: »

Was the intention too nerf jabs too the point it’s inferior too two other AoE ‘spammables’? I was watching Luca Cash parses and both of these out perform jabs.

Is this your plan for the skill? Is this intended or will you be buffing it in two months?

Its not inferior.. It has a considerable heal attached to it that also stacks with pale order. As an easy mode spamable its still by far the best out there!

They also INCREASED the aoe dmg factor if I'm not mistaken so single target might be lower but the aoe on adds should help some!

Couple of things here.

1. The healing of the sweeps morph is based on damage done. Less damage = less healing.
2. Sweeps healing was reduced from 40% too 33% compounding the above.
3. If you run pale order you don’t need a healing spammable.

4. They ‘buffed’ the AoE portion of the stamina morph… but neutered the base damage. Again it’s a buff in name only.

It’s disingenuous too talk about healing and a buffed AoE attack in the same breath.

virtus753

sinnereso wrote: »

UnassumingNoob wrote: »

Was the intention too nerf jabs too the point it’s inferior too two other AoE ‘spammables’? I was watching Luca Cash parses and both of these out perform jabs.

Is this your plan for the skill? Is this intended or will you be buffing it in two months?

Its not inferior.. It has a considerable heal attached to it that also stacks with pale order. As an easy mode spamable its still by far the best out there!

They also INCREASED the aoe dmg factor if I'm not mistaken so single target might be lower but the aoe on adds should help some!

Don't conflate two different morphs. We can't use both at the same time.

Jman100582

Templar identity is tied to 3 skills imo: jabs, purifying light, and cleanse. Those 3 skills have always been the staples regardless of the patch. A nerf to any of these 3 abilities usually results in few players touching Templar for that patch, especially so in pvp. And it’s because most of the plar toolkit is lacking outside of these 3 abilities

Where has all the Templar identity gone? Blazing shield has been nerfed, bubble has been nerfed, jabs has been nerfed, purifying light has seen ups and downs, burning light has been nerfed, major mending was taken away ages ago, we haven’t had the aoe snare on ritual from class passives in years, repentance was nerfed years ago. And while some of these nerfs probably needed to happen at the time, what have we been given in return? The ability to crit with purifying light, the changes to bubble that let it scale better that ended up being taken away anyway, and an unblockable stun. Other than that, there’s isn’t much that comes to mind. Plar has had massive swings from being literally a dead class during morrowind, an oppressive class in pvp during elsweyr, then back to being a mediocre class when purifying light was “debugged” during the Skyrim expansion year (it was bugged that patch and was double hit by battle spirit, so they ended up bugging it again for months) to up until recently being a very strong pvp class before the jabs nerf. It’s all over the place really. All because we have 3 over performing skills out of 15 abilities that zos can’t be bothered to balance

sbr32

UnassumingNoob wrote: »

Was the intention too nerf jabs too the point it’s inferior too two other AoE ‘spammables’? I was watching Luca Cash parses and both of these out perform jabs.

Is this your plan for the skill? Is this intended or will you be buffing it in two months?

lol at assuming there was a plan

katanagirl1

UnassumingNoob wrote: »

Agree - I can’t make heads nor tails of it. Did they get feedback from new pvp players that it was too oppressive? I understand not wanting to pigeonhole the class into just using jabs or face a huge dps loss…but they gave us nothing extra except a buffed execute. Damage was gutted in so many ways. And we still have so many useless outdated passives.

As a PvP player who has a stamplar, I find jabs hard to land on other players. I rarely see stamplars spamming it but a few do. Can’t be a lot of complaints for that one.

As for silver shards - there is something about that skill that, when I get hit with it, completely locks me up and makes everything after that a real lag fest. That skill should be investigated as being too OP for PvP.

endgamesmug

I was levelling about 6 templars on a new account, well they will now be deleted and ill probably replace them with nightblades.

Snamyap

endgamesmug wrote: »

I was levelling about 6 templars on a new account, well they will now be deleted and ill probably replace them with nightblades.

"About" six? 🤔 Not sure if it's five or even seven? And why that many?

gronoxvx

Going off prior experience, no it wouldnt have been intended. Wouldnt surprise me if most of the "balancing" is decided like this.

endgamesmug

Snamyap wrote: »

endgamesmug wrote: »

I was levelling about 6 templars on a new account, well they will now be deleted and ill probably replace them with nightblades.

"About" six? 🤔 Not sure if it's five or even seven? And why that many?

😆i have alot of time on my hands and if im gonna be levelling new characters they may aswell be ones ill enjoy. I honestly forget how many i started levelling on that account.

Jazraena

BahometZ wrote: »

There have been a lot of comments over the years that templar was a one class skill, you basically had to jab, it was too strong not to, no spammable could compete, nothing else could proc burning light.

The recent change to burning light is good for opening up class rotation, the nerf is unfortunate (though understandable), but the nerf to jabs is quite sad; it seems like a very typical zos decision to open up skill options not by strengthening other options, but by nerfing the strongest. Again and again this has been their philosophy, and while understandable from a resource perspective, it is years of this mindset that has eroded player regard and expectation. I doubt they'll ever change, and while this philosophy continues, they will continue to have a combative player base that scoffs at dev decisions.

The animation change of jabs is really unfortunate, it looks bad, and is just a very poor decision that is difficult to understand.

It would be good if templar could be a viable ranged class (like perhaps having the magic morph of javelin be a ranged spammable, with a damage boost required). But that won't ever happen, because it makes too much sense. I mean, look how long zos has gone without creating a stam whip, despite it being the most obvious thing in the world.

This.

I can agree that Jabs was too overloaded and strong when compared to other options in a vaccuum.

But it carried the class.

I can agree with standardization of skills. Really. But when you standardize the class carry skill downwards, but then leave the underperforming rest alone.... That doesn't work out.

There's still a million skills and sets in this game performing poorly. Maybe that would be a better focus for standardization for now instead of nuking specific skills and changing the entire paradigm every patch

Holycannoli

sbr32 wrote: »

UnassumingNoob wrote: »

Was the intention too nerf jabs too the point it’s inferior too two other AoE ‘spammables’? I was watching Luca Cash parses and both of these out perform jabs.

Is this your plan for the skill? Is this intended or will you be buffing it in two months?

lol at assuming there was a plan

More like throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks.

In three months all of this will have been drastically changed again. Don't use expensive mats to change gear sets based on what the game is like currently because you'll be scrambling to change it again soon. Sad but true.