Dizzying Swing needs a buff (PvP only)

StaticWave

With the recent hybridization changes, many stamina classes have access to off-resource spammables that allow them to ditch Dizzying Swing. However, this also highlights the problem of Dizzying Swing - it's not good enough compared to other spammables.

While its tooltip is slightly higher than regular spammables, the 0.8s cast time and the very predictable animation means this spammable can be easily countered. Furthermore, the cast time also prevents players from block casting it compared to regular spammables. It looks OP against players who don't know how to block or roll dodge, but against decent players it falls short.

Hybridization was the ultimate nail in the coffin for Dizzying Swing as players can now use better universal spammables such as Arterial Burst and Crushing Shock. Some classes can also use their stronger class spammable (like stamDk using Whip). Dizzying Swing needs to be readjusted to stay competitive.

My 2 suggestions are as followed:
1) Give Dizzying Swing's old tooltip damage. This rewards players who chose to use Dizzying Swing as part of a high risk, high reward playstyle.
2) Make Dizzying Swing instant cast and reduce its tooltip damage to be in line with other spammables. This allows players to block cast and animation cancel the ability better, which increases gameplay fluidity.

Firstmep

StaticWave wrote: »

With the recent hybridization changes, many stamina classes have access to off-resource spammables that allow them to ditch Dizzying Swing. However, this also highlights the problem of Dizzying Swing - it's not good enough compared to other spammables.

While its tooltip is slightly higher than regular spammables, the 0.8s cast time and the very predictable animation means this spammable can be easily countered. Furthermore, the cast time also prevents players from block casting it compared to regular spammables. It looks OP against players who don't know how to block or roll dodge, but against decent players it falls short.

Hybridization was the ultimate nail in the coffin for Dizzying Swing as players can now use better universal spammables such as Arterial Burst and Crushing Shock. Some classes can also use their stronger class spammable (like stamDk using Whip). Dizzying Swing needs to be readjusted to stay competitive.

My 2 suggestions are as followed:
1) Give Dizzying Swing's old tooltip damage. This rewards players who chose to use Dizzying Swing as part of a high risk, high reward playstyle.
2) Make Dizzying Swing instant cast and reduce its tooltip damage to be in line with other spammables. This allows players to block cast and animation cancel the ability better, which increases gameplay fluidity.

For the sake of more fluid combat I'd love to see option number 2.

Or allow imbue weapon and its morphs to also work off of heavy attacks too.
Or both.

Urzigurumash

I agree and I'd definitely vote for 1.

But, I say rather than just undoing the damage reduction at Dragonhold and keeping the 0.8s cast time, also undo the prior damage reduction at Elsweyr - and increase the cast time to its old 1s plus 0.2s to account for the removal of the "post global". So I think that would be 30% tooltip increase with a 1.2s cast time.

Post-Hybridization I like the sound of that better than a 15% increase with the 0.8s cast time, but either way, to me the cast time is an integral part of this skill and it should be kept.

TiberX

NO

Armanie

StaticWave wrote: »

Furthermore, the cast time also prevents players from block casting it compared to regular spammables.

Chilly-McFreeze

Armanie wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Furthermore, the cast time also prevents players from block casting it compared to regular spammables.

Holding block while still using instant skills. Never tried it?

OBJnoob

Good topic for discussion... I think this is only a backburner issue at the moment, but I do agree dizzy swing could use a buff. I don't like any of the proposed solutions much... Especially not removing the cast time.

Clunky as it is, its really not terrible, and it hits hard. I'd rather see a buff to the secondary effects. Or a change completely. I don't think the off balance is very helpful on a spammable that already stuns for a weapon line that has no passives for damage to off balance targets. Remove it... Make the snare apply every time... And double the snare strength. Or something else entirely. Make it grant 100 wpn/spell damage per consecutive connection stacking up to 4 times and lasting 5 seconds. Lol, that's the new thing right?

Armanie

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Holding block while still using instant skills. Never tried it?

Nope. You learn something new everyday.

StaticWave

TiberX wrote: »

NO

Please elaborate instead of giving an unconstructive "NO".

StaticWave

Armanie wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Holding block while still using instant skills. Never tried it?

Nope. You learn something new everyday.

Lots of new things to learn in ESO PvP

StaticWave

Urzigurumash wrote: »

I agree and I'd definitely vote for 1.

But, I say rather than just undoing the damage reduction at Dragonhold and keeping the 0.8s cast time, also undo the prior damage reduction at Elsweyr - and increase the cast time to its old 1s plus 0.2s to account for the removal of the "post global". So I think that would be 30% tooltip increase with a 1.2s cast time.

Post-Hybridization I like the sound of that better than a 15% increase with the 0.8s cast time, but either way, to me the cast time is an integral part of this skill and it should be kept.

I think either of these options will make Dizzying Swing competitive again. Giving it a higher dmg tooltip and increasing the channel to make up for the higher tooltip means it will be an even more of a risk/reward playstyle. On the other hand, removing the cast time means you can now block cast and drop executioner if you want to save a bar slot for another damage skill.

Emmagoldman

I'd be fine with slightest dmg buff and slightly higher cast time to let it hit with a heavy instead of med weave. Ups the skill lvl and plays into the 2h passive.

Ratzkifal

I do think Dizzying Swing is a little weird. In PvP it's unreliable. It's way easier to avoid than to land so the skill is pretty much useless in the hands of the average player but people who are exceptionally good can be an absolute menace with it. Maybe one morph could have no wind-up but deal less damage because of it? Personally I would love to have a two-handed spammable but the unreliable nature of Dswing and Wrecking Blow (especially in high latency situations) just takes the fun out of it for me.
Since Empower is now something completely different, why not turn the Wrecking Blow morph into such fast hitting skill with slightly less damage? That would not invalidate the extra risk of using the morph with the extra wind-up time for extra reward but it would be more reliable and make it easier to take advantage of the Empower buff as well, in the scenario where that effect is kept.

StaticWave

Ratzkifal wrote: »

I do think Dizzying Swing is a little weird. In PvP it's unreliable. It's way easier to avoid than to land so the skill is pretty much useless in the hands of the average player but people who are exceptionally good can be an absolute menace with it. Maybe one morph could have no wind-up but deal less damage because of it? Personally I would love to have a two-handed spammable but the unreliable nature of Dswing and Wrecking Blow (especially in high latency situations) just takes the fun out of it for me.
Since Empower is now something completely different, why not turn the Wrecking Blow morph into such fast hitting skill with slightly less damage? That would not invalidate the extra risk of using the morph with the extra wind-up time for extra reward but it would be more reliable and make it easier to take advantage of the Empower buff as well, in the scenario where that effect is kept.

Well one of the suggestions in my OP is Dizzying Swing can have its cast time removed and damage reduced to match other spammables' tooltip. Afaik, most spammables in the game have a similar tooltip, so it's definitely doable.

I don't think wrecking blow will receive a change considering it's more of a PvE spammable. Dizzying Swing is definitely a PvP spammable though.

BalticBlues

U35 cements a STAM - TANK - 2H meta in PvP.
If the majority of people is using it, it can't be too bad...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSbR2-oWq-s

Iron_Warrior

It's sad what years and years of crying on forums have done to this skill. make dizzying great again!

imno007b14_ESO

Isn't it already part of the meta now, at least in pvp?

StaticWave

imno007b14_ESO wrote: »

Isn't it already part of the meta now, at least in pvp?

Never was. It’s one of those abilities that people have to use because there are no other good options. As soon as good options come about (thru hybridization), people ditch it immediately. We can see it clearly by looking at stamdk or builds using crushing shock/arterial blast instead of dizzying swing.

StaticWave

BalticBlues wrote: »

U35 cements a STAM - TANK - 2H meta in PvP.
If the majority of people is using it, it can't be too bad...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSbR2-oWq-s

A lot of people using it doesn’t equal it being good. It’s not bad, but it’s not good either. It’s only acceptable enough because there aren’t better options. With hybridization I dropped dizzying swing to run Arterial Blast, which is a much better ability and lets you use any weapon type.