They are working on list of noc-cp working set

Dangranma_Burgrukgad

As you can see here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/615549/list-of-things-the-devs-left-unfinished
this thread has been closed because they are working on those things.
Specifically: 3. List of active sets in no-CP Cyro

As per @ZOS_Hadeostry words: "they are still being worked on by the Development team and are not "left unfinished"".

If I remembere correctly it's been more than a year that no-cp want no proc and we still don't have an official list.

So ZoS, can you please give us an ETA on when this list will be availiable?
Thanks!

YandereGirlfriend

Real talk but how hard can it be to compile this list? Ravenwatch has been this way for an entire year.

The community already maintains a list that will likely remain as the go-to source for this information.

OBJnoob

It is “left unfinished” until it is “finished.”

kurbbie_s

why does it matter? the no cp no proc campaigns are dead. grey host is the only place thats actually populated.

CaperGuy

kurbbie_s wrote: »

why does it matter? the no cp no proc campaigns are dead. grey host is the only place thats actually populated.

It matters because there remains a small subset of players that prefer the time to kill / general balance of RW without weird stuff like Plaguebreak and Dark Convergence. Plus ZOS said they would do it. Plus, I'm the guy with the running forum post trying to test and keep track of what sets work, don't work, break in patches, etc and it does get tedious and wastes my transmute stones, when this should be in game info.

If the no proc campaigns are really dead as you say, then ZOS needs to make a decision. They did say in the past that they were going to watch the campaign population in case they would need to revisit the decision to leave the permanent no-proc ruleset.

YandereGirlfriend

PC-NA Ravenwatch is 100% dead and (based upon reading the thread in Campaigns) it appears as though XBOX-NA is as well.

Not sure how things are on the EU side of things but I would be surprised if it is markedly better.

IMO, No-Proc has gotta go.

Zabagad

I don't know how it went since U35 (because I stoped playing) but PC EU was sometimes ok, often good and sometimes very good. Never close to dead during prime time.

I stoped with U35 anyway, but I cannot imagine at all to play with all these sets like dc, plague, mara or nocturnal which came up since No-Cp was created. That would be a second reason to stop playing for me.
I still would like to see a real No-Proc campaign which only exclude free damage/healing proc sets.

Imnotsurewho

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

PC-NA Ravenwatch is 100% dead and (based upon reading the thread in Campaigns) it appears as though XBOX-NA is as well.

Not sure how things are on the EU side of things but I would be surprised if it is markedly better.

IMO, No-Proc has gotta go.

Raven on the EU servers has a healthy and steady population. Raven was my PvP guild's home campaign as most of us prefer to play without CP but also like the build diversity that comes with allowing procs. Since the campaign was made to be without procs, it split our community more than I'd care to admit.

I understand why the developers did it: at the time there were a few egregious offending proc sets that needed to be adjusted and a campaign without procs seemed like an easy fix for the devs. The real issue though, was just those few sets that needed to be adjusted instead of a scorched earth policy on disallowing any conditional process effect sets.

Also, at the time, many were concerned that procs might be adding to server desync and skill delay. After playing in the no-proc Raven for a long time now, I can 100% say that's not the case. While there is a healthy population there, server desync and skill delay are absolutely horrible right now. March can't come soon enough to replace these servers, at which point I'm sure I'll have other things to complain about

But to the OP's point: yes, a definitive list should be made or procs enabled again and in tandem out of balance proc sets should not be allowed into the game, which would eliminate the need for a place like a no-proc campaign.

Just thinking in terms of "increasing accessibility" to the parts of the game, the Ravenwatch campaign doesn't make any sense. If I wasn't deeply embedded in the PvP community of this game, I wouldn't have any idea which sets work there and which don't. And by not knowing that, I could be hindering myself by wearing incorrect gear just because the campaign rules aren't explained thoroughly enough (imo).

TLDR: The devs shouldn't be relying on the player to know what their definition of a process effect set is or isn't (because its not always as clear as it seems)

OBJnoob

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

PC-NA Ravenwatch is 100% dead and (based upon reading the thread in Campaigns) it appears as though XBOX-NA is as well.

Not sure how things are on the EU side of things but I would be surprised if it is markedly better.

IMO, No-Proc has gotta go.

I'm the creator of the Xbox NA thread and proud (because of his set list forum contribution,) to say Caper is a friend of mine and we play together. Yes Rw is dead, but in my opinion it has little to do with no proc.

There is a small but incredibly dedicated population on Xbox na. Each alliance could routinely have a bar or two the only reason it doesn't pop off more regularly is because of skill and population discrepancy. Yellows (my team,) has been outnumbering the other alliances lately and souring their gaming experience. When they do get decent sized groups together but they wipe twice in a row they log out. And to be honest yellow behaves the same when the situation is reversed.

Its frequently unfair, but the same people show up in the same place every night to, at least for a little while, try again. And that is because they LOVE the no proc rules and would go through hell just for the occasional good night.

Havent heard a single person on Xbox na say they wish proc sets came back to rw. That isn't even remotely part of the problem.

CaperGuy

I gave Blackreach a quick try yesterday on a Warden of mine and I mean...dude.....it's a troll tank fest in there and people running up and down walls/towers trying to get people to chase them around......it reminded me of one of the reasons I like No-Cp. Some of that tower/rock humping happens in No-Cp too from time to time but it's not as easy to do and the margin for error is lower, one mistake and you're toast.

I wish ZoS would take the burden off of me and the other community members of manually testing the sets for No-Proc. Recently I was super surprised for example that the new Sergeants Mail still works, which builds stacks of a unique effect. I would never have thought that the set would work. ZoS didn't tell us one way or the other. The only reason I know is that I happened to have a set and was just curious before I took it off. Since that's a set that builds stacks that the server has to keep track of, it kind of made me lose confidence that there isn't some other sets I've missed/overlooked....

Really hoping that @ZOS_Kevin will follow through with his previous comment where he was going to try and get us an official list. Crossing my fingers for some kind of in-game representation of whether a set works too. That would be ideal.

OBJnoob

100% they need to get that to us. But the things you say about blackreach is exactly why no proc has to stay. You can blame maras balm but then there was plaguebreak dark convergence crimson sloads viper. I think there are enough people that prefer pvping without all that to merit it being a thing.

If you want procs without cp then play bgs.

Janni

kurbbie_s wrote: »

why does it matter? the no cp no proc campaigns are dead. grey host is the only place thats actually populated.

It matters because it shows if they are even willing to put the most minimal effort in supporting this aspect of their game anymore.

CaperGuy

OBJnoob wrote: »

100% they need to get that to us. But the things you say about blackreach is exactly why no proc has to stay. You can blame maras balm but then there was plaguebreak dark convergence crimson sloads viper. I think there are enough people that prefer pvping without all that to merit it being a thing.

If you want procs without cp then play bgs.

Yeah I could understand that for sure. The busted sets I do not miss in Cyrodiil. I remember the pre-nerf Crimson Alessian Werewolves and the Vateshran Destro before it could be cleansed, etc. There are sets that I do miss though like Sentry, for my old anti-Nightblade character or my old Azureblight Warden build which was dangerous if someone retreated into adds that I DoT’d up (mind you that set stopped working well after proc sets scaled with damage). Or my old Mag Warden Ice Furnace build, also pre nerf. Or cool defensive sets like Gloom Grace or Spectre’s Eye on a Mag build. Or a funny Stamblade that would roll dodge a lot with eternal hunt on to immobilize and then turn and burn while they figured out what just hit them. I used to get a kick out of funky weird builds with off-meta sets. Some worked and some didn’t.

In no way would I wish Plaguebreak, Dark Convergence, Mara’s Balm, and probably a host of other broken sets to be dumped on Ravenwatch but I do miss the choice of fun little weird sets. Maybe it just means I should make some fun BG builds though.

J18696

Not sure how it is on pc EU but ever since our no cp campaign became no proc the population has nose dived so hard in there compared to what it use tobe probably just better being rid of this no proc ruleset altogether they said during the tests it had no impact on performance whatsoever and the reason we would adopt this ruleset was because players wanted it well the populations suggest otherwise

caserdar

just because rw fills at pc eu doesnt show it is favoured here. you gotta keep in mind pc eu is the most populated server and nocp has always been very popular here too yet it fills long after gray host because ppl choose other campaigns or wait for the other campaigns to get unplayably laggy first to swap to rw and play the barely playably laggy game. it would actually have similar or more population than the popular one of the cp campaigns before but right now it usually has similar pops with blackreach sometimes less

Holycannoli

PC-NA Ravenwatch is only used to teleport out of Imperial City. I checked the score yesterday before the campaign ended and AD had an enormous lead, like well over 100k points, and EP and DC weren't even close.

Dead campaign is only used for teleporting.

OBJnoob

Honestly I've never been one to threaten to quit over changes I just make a new build and do my thing. So if they put procs back into ravenwatch I'll do just that. It seems like I may be in the minority that actually likes it the way it is now. But I would enjoy a greater population.

My underlying concern honestly is just... I hope the people coming here and saying they want procs in ravenwatch actually play in ravenwatch. You can't throw a rock around here without accidentally hitting a thread about unplayable lag, queu times, or cancerous proc sets... And yet greyhost stays pop locked and ravenwatch stays empty even though it has NONE of those problems. I'm not at all convinced non-ravenwatchers will come. They like suffering in greyhost and they will continue to do so, obviously, because they always have.

Whatever the ruleset in ravenwatch becomes it should be to the satisfaction of those that are already there. Other votes matter way way less. Not at all interested or convinced by people hypothesizing about what's "best" in a mode they don't frequent.

YandereGirlfriend

Holycannoli wrote: »

PC-NA Ravenwatch is only used to teleport out of Imperial City. I checked the score yesterday before the campaign ended and AD had an enormous lead, like well over 100k points, and EP and DC weren't even close.

Dead campaign is only used for teleporting.

Confirmed, and I do the same thing!

That and getting some really easy Tier 1s when DC has both low-pop and low-score bonus (only four resources and you're done for the month...).

My guild (that departed Raven beginning this campaign) kept tabs on the Raven campaign score for the memes and AD had something like 130 or 140k (with emps reigning for like a week at a time...) and DC was down there at like 35k. In the end, BOTH DC and EP had low-score bonuses, which meant that they were <50% of the score of AD.

Campaign is deader than dead. Only a ruleset change can save it now.

OBJnoob

@YandereGirlfriend so it sounds like there's a yellow presence and before your guild left a blue presence too. What makes you think a lack of procs caused your guild to leave?

I ask because your situation there is similar to my situation. One alliance is larger and arguably better than the others here. So the others don't come around much because being gated is no fun and neither is being chased from RSS to RSS because the yellows are bored.

But so where does the rationale come from that adding proc sets would help this?

On my platform black reach is 1 or 2 bars each every night. Perfect place to play in a greyhost like environment but with less lag. Seems ideal, yet the population stays medium while greyhost stays high. There doesn't seem to be any meaningful trickle down to me. People that play in greyhost want to play in greyhost. To build their score... To play with their guild... To play in the big boy campaign. Whatever the reason, I just don't think ravenwatch suddenly having procs is gonna draw them in. What makes you think so?

Seems like wishful thinking to me. It seems way more proven to me that with or without procs one alliance is going to dominate and the others are going to disappear.

Zabagad

I know from some people which would like to play NoProc (not necessarily NoCP) but they cannot, because the campaign on their platform(s) is/are empty. So the cat bites in its own tail.

I guess (and we all can only guess) that if the campaign(s) were ok and the rules (e.g. which sets are working) would be clear for everybody and you could find builds on all the popular sites for NoProc, then NoProc on itself wouldn't be the problem.

But if you cannot find a build and you don't know the rules and the campaign is almost empty - then you are where we are now

At the same time - the mentioned players would like to escape from the Proc campaign only because of lag (EU) and the "special" sets.
On the other hand - a lot of NoProc player would play in a Proc campaign if these "special" sets would not work there.
I'm still convinced that if they would make a campaign which only would exclude the "special" sets (and it would be clear which sets are not working) would be the best for all.

Holycannoli

It would also have to be alliance locked. Gray Host is more popular than Blackreach and I'm sure it's partly because Gray Host is locked.

The other thing is even the devs can't define for us what is a proc set and what isn't. I've heard Order's Wrath doesn't work in no-proc. How is that possible when it only gives a percentage bonus? To come up with a hand-picked list of sets to exclude may work but then it's up to the discretion of the devs which sets to add and which to leave out and there's no way the community will come to an agreement on that.

CaperGuy

Alliance lock isn’t a horrible idea, and that’s coming from someone with 36 characters across 2 accounts. Not all are one alliance but I’ve seen enough troll-y shenanigans in my time in Cyrodiil that I would get on board with alliance locking to at least cause the trolls some minor inconveniences to boosting and scroll trolling. They’d at least have to get on alt accounts to do it or have buddies on the opposite team.

MajorSnakeFox

Holycannoli wrote: »

PC-NA Ravenwatch is only used to teleport out of Imperial City. I checked the score yesterday before the campaign ended and AD had an enormous lead, like well over 100k points, and EP and DC weren't even close.

Dead campaign is only used for teleporting.

The same on the EU server. AD and EP dominate here, only zergs overrun everything and chase individual players across the map. In addition, the poor performance and the lack of balance.

In the last campaign Ep had almost 70 DK's in the TOP100. AD had 37 and DC 34.

We need a CP NOPROCC campaign! Maybe that will change something.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yn41CJ49y14

YandereGirlfriend

MajorSnakeFox wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

PC-NA Ravenwatch is only used to teleport out of Imperial City. I checked the score yesterday before the campaign ended and AD had an enormous lead, like well over 100k points, and EP and DC weren't even close.

Dead campaign is only used for teleporting.

The same on the EU server. AD and EP dominate here, only zergs overrun everything and chase individual players across the map. In addition, the poor performance and the lack of balance.

In the last campaign Ep had almost 70 DK's in the TOP100. AD had 37 and DC 34.

We need a CP NOPROCC campaign! Maybe that will change something.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yn41CJ49y14

Ah, so PC-EU really is the same as PC-NA.

It's even the same faction zerging-down the map.

OBJnoob

I guess I just need to get over the fact that my attempts to join this discussion have been ignored in both threads. I'll take solace in the fact that the back-and-fourth I'm on the sidelines of has proven my every word true.

Zabagad

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

MajorSnakeFox wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

PC-NA Ravenwatch is only used to teleport out of Imperial City. I checked the score yesterday before the campaign ended and AD had an enormous lead, like well over 100k points, and EP and DC weren't even close.

Dead campaign is only used for teleporting.

The same on the EU server. AD and EP dominate here, only zergs overrun everything and chase individual players across the map. In addition, the poor performance and the lack of balance.

In the last campaign Ep had almost 70 DK's in the TOP100. AD had 37 and DC 34.

We need a CP NOPROCC campaign! Maybe that will change something.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yn41CJ49y14

Ah, so PC-EU really is the same as PC-NA.

It's even the same faction zerging-down the map.

No it's not the same.
I'm pretty sure Major didn't agree with: "The same on the EU server." to the NA population situation.
If he/she agreed to that, I can only say again that pop is/was okish on PC/EU/NoCP since NoProc was added - at least till U35. (As I said before - I stopped playing with U35)

And another no to the "same factions" - maybe it is true right now, but for the last year it was always blue which were zerging - then a short time red and blue and maybe now it's yellow and red. But this changes every few month anyway.

CaperGuy

OBJnoob wrote: »

I guess I just need to get over the fact that my attempts to join this discussion have been ignored in both threads. I'll take solace in the fact that the back-and-fourth I'm on the sidelines of has proven my every word true.

The underlying point I was getting from the people who like no-cp is that the population in general is low or unbalanced on multiple servers and it would be nice to have either more people or at least a better faction balance. Some blame it on no-proc but it’s possible that’s not entirely true. Maybe the design of Cyrodiil’s buffs and incentives and queue system just doesn’t translate well to very low populations.

Getting the official No-proc set list info out there and ideally in game would maybe not solve those problems but it certainly can’t hurt with taking the giant question mark off of the table about ‘What works? What doesn’t?’

Maybe I should start doing some No-Proc builds on my YouTube channel. I’m no big wig content creator by any stretch but if no-proc builds are hard to find and disssuading people from coming in then I suppose I could contribute a little bit of what I’ve learned/tested.

casparian

There should just be a simple "all procs except Plaguebreak and Dark Convergence" no-CP campaign. So many things count as proc sets that the all-or-nothing approach is hard to maintain. But I don't think the reason most people are interested in a no-proc campaign is because they want to get away from Necropotence and Grothdarr.

Kartalin

casparian wrote: »

There should just be a simple "all procs except Plaguebreak and Dark Convergence" no-CP campaign. So many things count as proc sets that the all-or-nothing approach is hard to maintain. But I don't think the reason most people are interested in a no-proc campaign is because they want to get away from Necropotence and Grothdarr.

Yeah, this. I think when we originally envisioned the no proc campaign we were mostly thinking all the free damage procs that happen 100% of the time every x seconds. Especially the random pull sets, plaguebreak, etc. The result was a campaign that was dominated by defensive sets with no tools to overcome massive population imbalances.

Holycannoli

casparian wrote: »

There should just be a simple "all procs except Plaguebreak and Dark Convergence" no-CP campaign.

Add Mara's Balm to that and you're on to something.

Kaysha

Holycannoli wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

There should just be a simple "all procs except Plaguebreak and Dark Convergence" no-CP campaign.

Add Mara's Balm to that and you're on to something.

Exactly this