U35 Templar Jabs

Vulkunne

I'm typing this now while I have time to do so

Just got back from PTS and tested a bunch of things however most of my other concerns seem to have already been addressed by stronger, comprehensive arguments elsewhere except for this one thing that I don't quite understand.

So when I first saw this change where they replaced the Templar Jabs animation as well as the way Jabs worked, I kind of thought it was a fluke or perhaps like an inside joke. Alas, they are not joking.

With that said, I just don't understand the need for this change. Jabs works so well as it is and has existed this way, performing in a good manner for so long I just don't see why this change is necessary. Regarding the animation change, so it looks like you guys replaced the spear with a staff from one of the Vampire sets? Granted it looks like a spear sure, but we all know its a Staff, not a spear. A Holy Knight Class gets a spear rework from a Vampire Staff? It just seems trashy. I know that's not the type of feedback they want to hear but it looks terrible, out of place and unoriginal. [snip]

Secondly the way Jabs performs now is terrible and feels rather unreliable. So the way it seems to work, is I do two quick jabs and a long jab with a short time gap between the first two? I hate the way this work. It feels watered down [snip]. See, my opinion aside, for years jabs has worked great... this is a fact regardless of what I think. Its strong and reliable, exactly what a Templar needs. But here it feels really like the character isn't even trying. Like someone is kicking a can down the road vice a dedicated professional fighting back with grace. It just seems really [snip] and unreliable. I have no confidence in this new jab's ability whatsoever and think most players will probably quickly grow unsatisfied with it and replace with something else.

In fairness, I suspect the reason ZOS feels the need to do this is probably due to people running around with these 'one-click' builds and use jabs the whole time. On this facet, I guess I can somewhat sympathize with ZOS as one person clearing extreme difficult Trial content using one ability makes their game look cheap, which I agree is bad. However I ask ZOS to remember, in combating these things, the average player like myself is not trying to emulate what the content creators and influencers try to do. We just want an enjoyable game and a class that's reliable... we're not trying to Trifecta stuff or run thru Hard Trials in 25 minutes. Changes like this make the game miserable and prompt players to abandon things.

With that said, ZOS, any chance those of us not onboard with changes such as this could at some point please be treated to a class change Token? I mean, if you guys are going to be making terrible changes like this, even if in a certain light it needs to be done, this is not what I wanted when I created and 'raised' my two Templars. It is my sincere hope that the Dev Team will consider this request so those of us so inclined can decline these changes and move on to a better class that has not been ruined yet, even if we have to pay money or endeavors for it.

Thank you for your time.

[edited for bashing]

Bigmatt2

I'm retiring my PVP templar after this update. Going to be switching to a sorc or nb.

Baconlad

I've always hated the spear for templar. I hate the new animation. And why didn't they change all spear animations?

I'm glad it was toned down a bit. Allows magplar to run something other than that as a spammable. But really I feel like templar is kinda lacking something damage wise. Not sure what but something feels off.

On live my radiant destruction has a higher tooltip than dark flare. And now that dark flare doesn't buff light attacks it feels like the thing flare had going for it is gone. So a light attack weave with flare is weaker than live. I think even after jabs changes it's still damage wise weaker than jabs. So it remains weak due to...defile? It doesn't make sense. My buffed tool tip for a instant cast ability is only roughly 10% lower than flare.

Anyway...jabs and flare need to be reworked again. They missed the mark bigg time

Oh and the last hit on new jabs looks unbelievably terrible. I havnt seen one positive bit of feedback on the animation

Captain_Devildog

They should have left the jabs alone!

MidniteOwl1913

"I just don't understand the need for this change"

That's my attitude for the entire patch. :-(

SaffronCitrusflower

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it." ....and jabs wasn't broke.

rmajereub17_ESO

Captain_Devildog wrote: »

They should have left the jabs alone!

Definitely! I won’t be coming back until I can find it in my heart to delete mine and try a new character if jabs are going to look like Ned Flanders got into a fight with a decorative coat rack and lost. A small reduction in its damage would have been alright as well but they went overboard and rendered it useless in spam/rotation because they also hit so many other skills with damage reductions and changes. If you want to do damage that’s comparable to other DPS classes you’ll have to end up substituting using less class skills and instead more generic skill lines in your rotation, for your spammable at the very least. Then when you factor in the changes to everything else from what buff using a skill is now giving us to the new light attack nerfs vs heavy attack. If you were mag running inferno or lightning staffs you got penalized once again pretty good.

Jabs was the class defining skill and best part of running a templar as far as I’m concerned. Even if you accept the damage nerfs left you behind other classes and skills and run with it you still have to live with yourself and how pathetic it is when you go to bust it out and it looks like some drunk butler swinging a decorative coat rack.

rexagamemnon

The new spear rendering looks awesome, the new animation not so much.

ZOS_Hadeostry

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic.

Thank you for your understanding

rmajereub17_ESO

rexagamemnon wrote: »

The new spear rendering looks awesome, the new animation not so much.

It’d be sweet if they could just keep the old animation and their new one as well. Like, I’m totally butthurt about it but some folks are digging it.

I might be wrong but from what the patch notes say they changed it to make weaving more accessible?The new one jabs three times with reduced damage because it’s suppose to be easier to weave in a cooldown window. I never had an issue weaving with the old one, but I think the idea was it would make it easier for less able people to pull it off who struggled as it was? They oughta just add the classic animation back in and match the damage of the new one by scaling the damage evenly between the jabs. Then if you loved the old one you’d see it under the skill as a morph and take your chances you’ll pull off weaving good enough. The new players or those struggling can morph it to the coat rack and the old and stubborn could carry on. If weaving was hard with the classic skill then certainly no one would object we choose to keep rocking it cause if we take the hard mode weaving and can’t pull it off it’s beneficial to the enemy in pvp and negligible in pve if we know how to play our toon.

Skafloc

As someone with a progressive disability I have enjoyed playing this game since it first came out. But over the years I have had to adapt my game play to fit my increasingly limited mobility and have relied on many one bar builds to help me. The Templar has been my favorite class to play and fits my style of play as a dps or healer. I rely on jabs and I feel these new changes will be the end of my playing days here which is a sad moment for me.

xthrshx

The jabs animation is so horrendous it’s almost funny. Like, how did they manage to get every single thing wrong with it? That’s not how a spear is held. That’s not how a spear is thrust. That’s not even a spear. And then, to add insult to injury, they made it a vampire motif. You couldn’t get this many things wrong with a single animation if you tried. And that’s not even getting into the fact that the sound is still broken or that the animation length was shortened to better suit the combat mechanic they are trying to obliterate.

But beyond all that, they nerfed the skill into the ground. Yes, jabs was a strong, high utility spammable. But the class as a whole has one of the lowest damage ceilings, so destroying that skill—and burning light—without compensating elsewhere is just reckless.

The changes to jabs are the number one reason I canceled my ESO+ subscription. It’s more than just changing an ability—you’ve annihilated an entire class.

ADarklore

xthrshx wrote: »

The jabs animation is so horrendous it’s almost funny. Like, how did they manage to get every single thing wrong with it? That’s not how a spear is held. That’s not how a spear is thrust. That’s not even a spear. And then, to add insult to injury, they made it a vampire motif. You couldn’t get this many things wrong with a single animation if you tried. And that’s not even getting into the fact that the sound is still broken or that the animation length was shortened to better suit the combat mechanic they are trying to obliterate.

But beyond all that, they nerfed the skill into the ground. Yes, jabs was a strong, high utility spammable. But the class as a whole has one of the lowest damage ceilings, so destroying that skill—and burning light—without compensating elsewhere is just reckless.

The changes to jabs are the number one reason I canceled my ESO+ subscription. It’s more than just changing an ability—you’ve annihilated an entire class.

Right there with you. I also canceled my sub and stopped playing last month... I just come back to check to forums from time to time to see if they've reverted anything back to make Templars playable again. So far no... and that's where my attitude is about re-subscribing and playing ESO... a resounding NO.

miguelcura

The animation was annoying (It is noted that you do not do trials)
I also like being able to play templar without relying on jabs, which are melee and limit mechanics a lot.
I think remote templar is going to be my new main.
It's a good change.

Ariordin

If you like playing without jabs, then don't use jabs. But nerfing templars main spamable into the ground to force people not to use it, isn't creating new options, its taking away game play options.

That said I've come to peace with ESO's ever changing combat mechanics. Its crazy and i wish they could just settle on something but they won't. What really insults me is the animation change, breaking the Aedric spear skill line animation synergy is a real shame, and destroys the RPness of Templars. I mean who really thought it was a good idea to give a Templar a staff/spear animation from a vampire/necro armor set???

mmtaniac

I stopped pvp thanks to this change can't jabs anymore they feel different.

xthrshx

Some friends asked me to help them with a EOF prog. (I have a few Godslayer clears.) I thought about it, but honestly the jabs animation is what made me say no. I just refuse to support this game in any capacity while they [snip] force such universally despised decisions on us. Haven’t logged in since u35 and not going to until they start listening to customers.

[edited for minor bashing]

UnassumingNoob

I don’t dps anymore on my Templar. Feels weak, looks crap.

Jensmom

Wanna know how much the devs don't like the new animation? Isabel has the regular jabs on HER bar. Am I bitter about this? YOU BET I AM!

MidniteOwl1913

UnassumingNoob wrote: »

I don’t dps anymore on my Templar. Feels weak, looks crap.

While I agree, it's still better than half-whip DK...

Syiccal

Jensmom wrote: »

Wanna know how much the devs don't like the new animation? Isabel has the regular jabs on HER bar. Am I bitter about this? YOU BET I AM!

Uhh, please explain further, how do you know this

mmtaniac

Her animation is changed too ,it's in first patch notes of pts.

bachpain

The Templar was in a good place and they gutted it period. Could have accomplished a slight adjustment with scaling back damage a bit or whatever. Instead they just nerf the class into oblivion. I can't stand how they are taking all class identity away and replacing it with only weapon skills being effective enough to be viable.

PLAY YOUR WAY! But class skills stink. Welcome to ESO 2022. Everyone has the same skills on both bars minus one or maybe two regardless of class. For the love of the game ESO please, bring back some class diversity. I mean hybridization of mag/stam is one thing. But I sat there at the class creation screen to make a toon with my son and was like I don't even care which one I make, it is all going to boil down to weapon skills anyway.

Syiccal

Your not wrong, it's pretty much 2h or duel wield skills plus class heals/utility which all do the same thing anyway with different animations

mmtaniac

Yup ,new jabs feel totaly different. This is not our templar anymore , in pve i don't care but pvp feel bad my damage totaly not exist (maybe this is serpent coil, mara, and vampire passive mitigation) but still better vine on class damage.

Ariordin

Templars basically aren't templars any more with how the changes look.

After this last patch the class feels completely different then it was 6 months ago. Which was really sad. Before U35 it was fun to play Templar.

dmnqwk

bachpain wrote: »

The Templar was in a good place and they gutted it period. Could have accomplished a slight adjustment with scaling back damage a bit or whatever. Instead they just nerf the class into oblivion. I can't stand how they are taking all class identity away and replacing it with only weapon skills being effective enough to be viable.

PLAY YOUR WAY! But class skills stink. Welcome to ESO 2022. Everyone has the same skills on both bars minus one or maybe two regardless of class. For the love of the game ESO please, bring back some class diversity. I mean hybridization of mag/stam is one thing. But I sat there at the class creation screen to make a toon with my son and was like I don't even care which one I make, it is all going to boil down to weapon skills anyway.

Wrong.

A lot of classes, Templar included, share a common framework that their class skills are good. Thinking about my personal characters (I have StamDK, Magblade, Stamblade, Magcro, Stamcro, Stamden, Magplar and Stamsorc) I don't think it's all about weapon skills for a lot of them.

Templar - Frontbar has no weapon skills
Magblade - Frontbar has no weapon skills
Stamblade - Frontbar has no weapon skills
Stamden - Frontbar has 2 weapon skills
StamDK - Frontbar has no weapon skills
Stamsorc - Frontbar has 1 weapon skill
Magplar - Frontbar has no weapon skills
Magcro - Frontbar has no weapon skills

So out of 8 dps (I have 2 Necros and 2 Nightblades - everyone but my Templar and Sorc has either a tank or healer setup on top) I only use 3 weapon skills on the frontbar (Whirling Blades on both, Rapid Strikes on the Stamden).

I have never cared how the jabs looks because if I'm looking at the ability I'm failing to notice timers, positioning, boss health, adds, other team members etc so the animation was always meh to me - but honestly, too many people mix up their hatred for the animation with the nerf to the skill. The skill was overpowered - no one skill should have a 'do 50k dps with one button' build on a pvp-players website and people think that's okay - but even after the nerfs it's still ahead of Rapid Strikes, the next highest damaging spammable out there.

Jabs - 14k
Rapid Strikes - 13k
A lot of other spammables including Silver shards - 9.5 - 10.5k
Warden options - 9k

Be glad Templar has a strong spammable, unlike Warden. (Not that warden is specifically bad, just the spammable).

mmtaniac

In pve i personally don't care about change , in pvp it feels weird and weak but jabs always feel weak in pvp too many damage reduction work on them like Major Evasion(is strongest counter to them) and other mitigations.

They made too many unique mitigations that reduce jabs damage alone.

Whole medium armor is jabs counter 1piece of medium is 2% have 5piece and major evasion and we have 35% damage reduction to jabs alone + vampire passive + minor + major prot + 33k armor + battle spirit and where is damage?

You feel like no damage class and this feel terrible and unrewarding.

lQrukl

1) Animation is still weak, please return spear to Morgott, its different game

2) I still cannot understand why jabs is counting as AoE ability. It really hurts templar in PvP.
Any other ability that has separate damage to target and to enemies around has separated damage types as well. Daedric Curse, for example. Almost each DK skill. Wtf, just standardize it, damage to main target should count as solo.

xthrshx

lQrukl wrote: »

1) Animation is still weak, please return spear to Morgott, its different game

Morgott’s spear looks awesome, while that glowing vampire shovel looks like garbage.