Outrageous Sub and Crown Price Updates

Knockmaker

Prices on eso steam store went crazy. I mean, I understand that it has to do with the currency exchanges and all, but that is partly why the steam regional pricing exists to ensure players from all over the world can afford. I can understand the increase, but 3X increase for eso+ sub? Similar increase had been done with the crowns that was when I stopped paying for crowns. Now, I will probably never resub either.

It takes years to upgrade servers but the store prices keep changing almost instantly nowadays. I believe people behind it make their own analyses etc. therefore I kindly request them to not analyse fx changes only but also PPP. That decision is sure to prevent a lot of players in my market (TR) at least from subbing. I for one am a certain drop from your statistics. I hope zos' steam team reviews this new price tags.

Amottica

I am seeing the very same price for ESO+ and crowns as they have been since I started over a year ago. 14.99 USD for a month, 11.99/m for a year-long sub. Crowns are still the same price as well across all the packages.

What is likely being seen is adjustments for foreign exchange rates.

p4l4mu7

I have been subscribed to eso+ since late 2016, but since 2016 they didn't upgrade their server, people have been telling them Cyrodiil is unplayable due to lag however they refused to upgrade servers and instead they tried adding cooldowns to skills, slowing down combat, changing damage over time, they tried every single cheap option and failed.

If I was sure they would use the money I pay and upgrade my player experience I would resub, but this is just shameless, they provide 0 hardware upgrade and then they increase the price by 3x. I'll cancel my eso+ after almost 6 years and I'm not planning on resubbing until they fix their servers.
Most of my guilds are moving to ff14 anyway over the terrible u35 and as if this terrible patch and their unprofessional attitude towards feedback is not enough to quit the game they just increased prices by 3x, it almost feels like they want to kill the game since microsoft bought them.

Knockmaker

Amottica wrote: »

I am seeing the very same price for ESO+ and crowns as they have been since I started over a year ago. 14.99 USD for a month, 11.99/m for a year-long sub. Crowns are still the same price as well across all the packages.

What is likely being seen is adjustments for foreign exchange rates.

Most likely. But like I said, that change doesn't correlate with PPP. AFAIK, Steam makes only recommendations as to pricing of a product on their platform. But the actual studios make the final decision. If so, zos steam team must also include PPP in their calculations for their own revenues sake as well. Yes, it is plain truth that the exchange rates have moved significantly in that exchange pair, but that doesn't mean all these players have their incomes increased 3X. Therefore, when you look at the new figures that appear on their steam store, they just seem almost too unreal for an "in-app purchase" or monthly subscription.

markulrich1966

Reason is, that TR has 80% inflation.

Knockmaker

markulrich1966 wrote: »

Reason is, that TR has 80% inflation.

There is no denying that. However, 80% isn't 3X increase. This looks like front loading and it just isn't right.

davidtk

So, for your country are prices higher than on eso store? Or how?
My country had cheaper month sub on steam than on eso store.
When prices started be tje same I moved to eso store only.

psychotrip

Knockmaker wrote: »

Prices on eso steam store went crazy. I mean, I understand that it has to do with the currency exchanges and all, but that is partly why the steam regional pricing exists to ensure players from all over the world can afford. I can understand the increase, but 3X increase for eso+ sub? Similar increase had been done with the crowns that was when I stopped paying for crowns. Now, I will probably never resub either.

It takes years to upgrade servers but the store prices keep changing almost instantly nowadays. I believe people behind it make their own analyses etc. therefore I kindly request them to not analyse fx changes only but also PPP. That decision is sure to prevent a lot of players in my market (TR) at least from subbing. I for one am a certain drop from your statistics. I hope zos' steam team reviews this new price tags.

Your discontent has already been factored in, my friend. [snip]

Yes, it is plain truth that the exchange rates have moved significantly in that exchange pair, but that doesn't mean all these players have their incomes increased 3X.

[snip] They think enough people will buy in for them to make a profit. This is purely business, [snip]

[edited for bashing]

Knockmaker

davidtk wrote: »

So, for your country are prices higher than on eso store? Or how?
My country had cheaper month sub on steam than on eso store.
When prices started be tje same I moved to eso store only.

No, I am referring to the disproportionate price hikes of eso crown and sub prices in a specific (TR) region on eso's steam store. I haven't really checked what the prices are on eso website atm. I'll just leave a few examples:

For a person who earns minimum wage (FYI, approximately 50% of the workforce here is getting paid a minimum wage, so the perception of "minimum wage" may be a little different. It isn't like 2% of the workforce is paid a minimum wage like in some other regions in the world. That's why I mentioned this official stats), a 21k crown pack on the steam store now costs approximately 1/4 of their monthly income. With a minimum wage in Germany, for example, you can now afford slightly over 100x 1-month sub, whereas with this new regional pricing you can only afford 42x 1-month sub.

Yes, you can always argue that why should they keep their prices lower in this market etc. and all that wouldn't be completely incorrect at some point. However, it will be them losing profit in the end as well when the people will realise it is way too expensive now and will need to stop paying for it. That's why PPP matters. This was just a basic example with only a few figures I could provide on top of my head with a few simple calculations. If other players in the same regions with better knowledge and math see this, maybe they can diversify the examples. I am simply saying that that is disproportionate and needs to be reconsidered and revised.

Lumsdenml

p4l4mu7 wrote: »

I have been subscribed to eso+ since late 2016, but since 2016 they didn't upgrade their server, people have been telling them Cyrodiil is unplayable due to lag however they refused to upgrade servers and instead they tried adding cooldowns to skills, slowing down combat, changing damage over time, they tried every single cheap option and failed.

If I was sure they would use the money I pay and upgrade my player experience I would resub, but this is just shameless, they provide 0 hardware upgrade and then they increase the price by 3x. I'll cancel my eso+ after almost 6 years and I'm not planning on resubbing until they fix their servers.
Most of my guilds are moving to ff14 anyway over the terrible u35 and as if this terrible patch and their unprofessional attitude towards feedback is not enough to quit the game they just increased prices by 3x, it almost feels like they want to kill the game since microsoft bought them.

You do know that they did replace PC NA server and are in the process of obtaining the hardware for the other servers, right? You also know that they did listen to feedback on u35 and have made adjustments, right?

Knockmaker

psychotrip wrote: »

Knockmaker wrote: »

Prices on eso steam store went crazy. I mean, I understand that it has to do with the currency exchanges and all, but that is partly why the steam regional pricing exists to ensure players from all over the world can afford. I can understand the increase, but 3X increase for eso+ sub? Similar increase had been done with the crowns that was when I stopped paying for crowns. Now, I will probably never resub either.

It takes years to upgrade servers but the store prices keep changing almost instantly nowadays. I believe people behind it make their own analyses etc. therefore I kindly request them to not analyse fx changes only but also PPP. That decision is sure to prevent a lot of players in my market (TR) at least from subbing. I for one am a certain drop from your statistics. I hope zos' steam team reviews this new price tags.

Your discontent has already been factored in, my friend. [snip]

Yes, it is plain truth that the exchange rates have moved significantly in that exchange pair, but that doesn't mean all these players have their incomes increased 3X.

[snip] They think enough people will buy in for them to make a profit. This is purely business, [snip]

Yep, I could imagine that a business approach should be amoral, and I can understand that. That's why I've just tried my best in my previous post to explain how unaffordable these purchases are likely to become and might even lose them money ultimately. If they are going to compensate for it elsewhere in another market, fine. But, I also keep seeing localised ads of eso in my region which indicates that they are trying to attract more customers from here as well, which makes this hike quite contradictory to that.

[edited to remove quote]

jaws343

Knockmaker wrote: »

davidtk wrote: »

So, for your country are prices higher than on eso store? Or how?
My country had cheaper month sub on steam than on eso store.
When prices started be tje same I moved to eso store only.

No, I am referring to the disproportionate price hikes of eso crown and sub prices in a specific (TR) region on eso's steam store. I haven't really checked what the prices are on eso website atm. I'll just leave a few examples:

For a person who earns minimum wage (FYI, approximately 50% of the workforce here is getting paid a minimum wage, so the perception of "minimum wage" may be a little different. It isn't like 2% of the workforce is paid a minimum wage like in some other regions in the world. That's why I mentioned this official stats), a 21k crown pack on the steam store now costs approximately 1/4 of their monthly income. With a minimum wage in Germany, for example, you can now afford slightly over 100x 1-month sub, whereas you can only afford 42x 1-month sub.

Yes, you can always argue that why should they keep their prices lower in this market etc. and all that wouldn't be completely incorrect at some point. However, it will be them losing profit in the end as well when the people will realise it is way too expensive now and will need to stop paying for it. That's why PPP matters. This was just a basic example with only a few figures I could provide on top of my head with a few simple calculations. If other players in the same regions with better knowledge and math see this, maybe they can diversify the examples. I am simply saying that that is disproportionate and needs to be reconsidered and revised.

Eh, not really.

If a territory's currency is devalued to a point to not really be profitable to maintain the current pricing, then they really aren't losing money if they raise the price and some people can no longer afford it any more. If they don't raise the price, then all they are doing is taking a loss due to the currency's value being poor.

And honestly, the cost of living and minimum wage stuff is really irrelevant here. We are talking about a luxury/entertainment item. It isn't a necessary thing to have or pay for. So taking any of that into consideration is pretty irrelevant. The only important thing is the value of the currency and the return on the investment in that territory. If that means tripling prices, that is more indicative to the state of the region than it is to the company selling a product.

Knockmaker

Eh, not really.

If a territory's currency is devalued to a point to not really be profitable to maintain the current pricing, then they really aren't losing money if they raise the price and some people can no longer afford it any more. If they don't raise the price, then all they are doing is taking a loss due to the currency's value being poor.

I agree. However, if you overshoot with the increase, it is likely that you will not lose "some" people but "most" people in that region since it becomes unreasonable for those people. There are of course many other elements such as the total number of customers in that particular region which can affect the extent of the increase.

And honestly, the cost of living and minimum wage stuff is really irrelevant here. We are talking about a luxury/entertainment item. It isn't a necessary thing to have or pay for. So taking any of that into consideration is pretty irrelevant. The only important thing is the value of the currency and the return on the investment in that territory. If that means tripling prices, that is more indicative to the state of the region than it is to the company selling a product.

True, it isn't a life-or-death kind of cost. Especially the crowns are mostly for cosmetic purposes only. Sub on the other hand, offers features like craft bag and access to dlcs etc., and practically is essential, especially if you are an end-game player/play end game/pvp and need new gear etc. Moreover, if zos actively pushes ads and obviously tries to attract customers by doing so, tripling the prices like that is just counterintuitive, cos you will then need to take the overall economic conditions of your potential customers' region into account more carefully before you do so. Maybe they did, we do not know that at the moment. But it just doesn't look so.

psychotrip

Knockmaker wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

Knockmaker wrote: »

Prices on eso steam store went crazy. I mean, I understand that it has to do with the currency exchanges and all, but that is partly why the steam regional pricing exists to ensure players from all over the world can afford. I can understand the increase, but 3X increase for eso+ sub? Similar increase had been done with the crowns that was when I stopped paying for crowns. Now, I will probably never resub either.

It takes years to upgrade servers but the store prices keep changing almost instantly nowadays. I believe people behind it make their own analyses etc. therefore I kindly request them to not analyse fx changes only but also PPP. That decision is sure to prevent a lot of players in my market (TR) at least from subbing. I for one am a certain drop from your statistics. I hope zos' steam team reviews this new price tags.

Your discontent has already been factored in, my friend. [snip]

Yes, it is plain truth that the exchange rates have moved significantly in that exchange pair, but that doesn't mean all these players have their incomes increased 3X.

[snip] They think enough people will buy in for them to make a profit. This is purely business, [snip]

Yep, I could imagine that a business approach should be amoral, and I can understand that. That's why I've just tried my best in my previous post to explain how unaffordable these purchases are likely to become and might even lose them money ultimately. If they are going to compensate for it elsewhere in another market, fine. But, I also keep seeing localised ads of eso in my region which indicates that they are trying to attract more customers from here as well, which makes this hike quite contradictory to that.

This will go one of two ways:

[snip]

I say this from experience. I dont say this stuff to be a downer, but we need to understand how these companies work if we're going to affect any kind of real change. By and large, forums are meaningless for feedback, and thats especially true for monetary feedback. The people in charge of that sort of thing have likely never even been to these forums, and they're already aware that some will quit over this. [snip]
[edited for bashing & to remove quote]

Knockmaker

psychotrip wrote: »

Knockmaker wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

Knockmaker wrote: »

Prices on eso steam store went crazy. I mean, I understand that it has to do with the currency exchanges and all, but that is partly why the steam regional pricing exists to ensure players from all over the world can afford. I can understand the increase, but 3X increase for eso+ sub? Similar increase had been done with the crowns that was when I stopped paying for crowns. Now, I will probably never resub either.

It takes years to upgrade servers but the store prices keep changing almost instantly nowadays. I believe people behind it make their own analyses etc. therefore I kindly request them to not analyse fx changes only but also PPP. That decision is sure to prevent a lot of players in my market (TR) at least from subbing. I for one am a certain drop from your statistics. I hope zos' steam team reviews this new price tags.

Your discontent has already been factored in, my friend. [snip]

Yes, it is plain truth that the exchange rates have moved significantly in that exchange pair, but that doesn't mean all these players have their incomes increased 3X.

[snip] They think enough people will buy in for them to make a profit. This is purely business, [snip]

Yep, I could imagine that a business approach should be amoral, and I can understand that. That's why I've just tried my best in my previous post to explain how unaffordable these purchases are likely to become and might even lose them money ultimately. If they are going to compensate for it elsewhere in another market, fine. But, I also keep seeing localised ads of eso in my region which indicates that they are trying to attract more customers from here as well, which makes this hike quite contradictory to that.

This will go one of two ways:

[snip]

I say this from experience. I dont say this stuff to be a downer, but we need to understand how these companies work if we're going to affect any kind of real change. By and large, forums are meaningless for feedback, and thats especially true for monetary feedback. The people in charge of that sort of thing have likely never even been to these forums, and they're already aware that some will quit over this. [snip]

Nah, I don't think you are a downer. That's just realism and you are probably right. Nevertheless, as a long-time, loyal and a subbed (no more it would seem) player, I only wanted to raise my voice in the hopes that it might be heard. I haven't been playing very actively due to insane lag and performance issues anyway, so I might as well never return. But, it will be a big punch in the stomach to the other players in this region who are playing, progressing and hoping to save some crowns or buying sub to progress faster, get gear etc.

[edited to remove quote]

Amottica

Knockmaker wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

I am seeing the very same price for ESO+ and crowns as they have been since I started over a year ago. 14.99 USD for a month, 11.99/m for a year-long sub. Crowns are still the same price as well across all the packages.

What is likely being seen is adjustments for foreign exchange rates.

Most likely. But like I said, that change doesn't correlate with PPP. AFAIK, Steam makes only recommendations as to pricing of a product on their platform. But the actual studios make the final decision. If so, zos steam team must also include PPP in their calculations for their own revenues sake as well. Yes, it is plain truth that the exchange rates have moved significantly in that exchange pair, but that doesn't mean all these players have their incomes increased 3X. Therefore, when you look at the new figures that appear on their steam store, they just seem almost too unreal for an "in-app purchase" or monthly subscription.

I did a search and did not find that Steam requires developers to provide PPP when increasing prices based on price forex. Since the pricing is solely on the developer's side, it seems it is none of Steam's business to start with.

However, if you truly feel that Steam has such a requirement, then your beef is with Steam for letting Zenimax slide without providing justification. You could also start a support ticket with Zenimax in case the change was in error.

Good luck.

Knockmaker

Amottica wrote: »

Knockmaker wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

I am seeing the very same price for ESO+ and crowns as they have been since I started over a year ago. 14.99 USD for a month, 11.99/m for a year-long sub. Crowns are still the same price as well across all the packages.

What is likely being seen is adjustments for foreign exchange rates.

Most likely. But like I said, that change doesn't correlate with PPP. AFAIK, Steam makes only recommendations as to pricing of a product on their platform. But the actual studios make the final decision. If so, zos steam team must also include PPP in their calculations for their own revenues sake as well. Yes, it is plain truth that the exchange rates have moved significantly in that exchange pair, but that doesn't mean all these players have their incomes increased 3X. Therefore, when you look at the new figures that appear on their steam store, they just seem almost too unreal for an "in-app purchase" or monthly subscription.

I did a search and did not find that Steam requires developers to provide PPP when increasing prices based on price forex. Since the pricing is solely on the developer's side, it seems it is none of Steam's business to start with.

However, if you truly feel that Steam has such a requirement, then your beef is with Steam for letting Zenimax slide without providing justification. You could also start a support ticket with Zenimax in case the change was in error.

Good luck.

But I wasn't saying such a thing.

I said zos should include/consider PPP in their calculations for more accuracy. Calculations and maths come first, then you decide the new price and adjust it on Steam in this case. I wasn't referring to no such thing like Steam requires devs to provide PPP when adjusting prices. I tried to explain it more by giving examples previously. I am sorry if I wasn't clear to you about that bit. But, thank you for taking time to think about that matter, that's kind of you.

FluffWit

Where is TR?

TaSheen

Designation for Turkey.

kargen27

Before this do you remember when the prices were last adjusted?

FeedbackOnly

Knockmaker wrote: »

markulrich1966 wrote: »

Reason is, that TR has 80% inflation.

There is no denying that. However, 80% isn't 3X increase. This looks like front loading and it just isn't right.

It used to be 200 to 1 not even two years ago. It's 1800 to 1 now

Amottica

Knockmaker wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Knockmaker wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

I am seeing the very same price for ESO+ and crowns as they have been since I started over a year ago. 14.99 USD for a month, 11.99/m for a year-long sub. Crowns are still the same price as well across all the packages.

What is likely being seen is adjustments for foreign exchange rates.

Most likely. But like I said, that change doesn't correlate with PPP. AFAIK, Steam makes only recommendations as to pricing of a product on their platform. But the actual studios make the final decision. If so, zos steam team must also include PPP in their calculations for their own revenues sake as well. Yes, it is plain truth that the exchange rates have moved significantly in that exchange pair, but that doesn't mean all these players have their incomes increased 3X. Therefore, when you look at the new figures that appear on their steam store, they just seem almost too unreal for an "in-app purchase" or monthly subscription.

I did a search and did not find that Steam requires developers to provide PPP when increasing prices based on price forex. Since the pricing is solely on the developer's side, it seems it is none of Steam's business to start with.

However, if you truly feel that Steam has such a requirement, then your beef is with Steam for letting Zenimax slide without providing justification. You could also start a support ticket with Zenimax in case the change was in error.

Good luck.

But I wasn't saying such a thing.

I said zos should include/consider PPP in their calculations for more accuracy.

I would suggest such a thing would complicate the matter since exchange rates fluctuate daily. As soon as the relevant price forex fluctuated in favor of the customer, players would clamor to have the price reduced since the price hike was based on higher forex.

And apologies for misreading. When Steam was mentioned, I read to much into it since Steam has nothing to do with the pricing for ESO. ZeniMax was about to figure that out well before ESO was placed on Steam.

FluffWit

TaSheen wrote: »

Designation for Turkey.

Thank you from my brief look their exchange rate to other currency's has fallen significantly but nothing that would justify a 300% increase in the sub price.... more something that would warrant a 30% increase.

Tandor

Have their been any relevant tax changes as well as the currency change?

Jaimeh

There's been increases in sub pricing in a few regions, in some cases extremely high. I've been playing without ESO+ for some time now, and have done so as well in the past for periods of time, and I can say that even as a long-time player you can make-do without ESO+ for almost anything, except housing. Sadly there's no way to go around half the slot limit, especially for big houses. For everything else there are solutions, and people have posted a lot of tips/tricks threads on this topic on the forums--just a heads for players who might no longer be able to get ESO+.

dmnqwk

August 2012: 1 British Pound = 2.8 Turkish Lira
August 2014: 1 GBP = 3.5 TRY
August 2017: 1 GBP = 4.5 TRY
August 2018: 1 GBP = 8.7 TRY
August 2022: 1 GBP = 21.6 TRY

10 years ago it was 1:2.8 for the exchange rate
When ESO began it was 1:3.5
5 years ago it was 1:4.5
4 years ago it spiked to 1:8.7
Now it's 1:21.6

So, in 5 years it's gone from 4.5 to 21.6, an increase of 400%. Comparitively, how much has ESO gone up in those 5 years?

For reference the USD to TRY is:
ESO begins: 1:2.1
5 years ago: 1:3.5
4 years ago: 1:6.8
Current: 1:17.9

I appreciate you may not follow the currency spikes, but in 10 years the Turkish Lira is worth approximately 11% of what it used to be. During the lifetime of ESO it's worth devalued to be 16% approximately.
The Turkish Lira is worth 50% less than it was only 12 months ago - to see the prices go up 3 times is not as bad as it might seem with this context (unfortunately. But as it's been said, ESO+ is a luxury unlike energy prices, food shortages, global warming etc).

deleted221205-002626

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

Knockmaker wrote: »

markulrich1966 wrote: »

Reason is, that TR has 80% inflation.

There is no denying that. However, 80% isn't 3X increase. This looks like front loading and it just isn't right.

It used to be 200 to 1 not even two years ago. It's 1800 to 1 now

Curious... are the "crown sellers" that are desperatly trying to high the ratio from specific regions? I'm beginning to think its likely.

Kiralyn2000

sinnereso wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

Knockmaker wrote: »

markulrich1966 wrote: »

Reason is, that TR has 80% inflation.

There is no denying that. However, 80% isn't 3X increase. This looks like front loading and it just isn't right.

It used to be 200 to 1 not even two years ago. It's 1800 to 1 now

Curious... are the "crown sellers" that are desperatly trying to high the ratio from specific regions? I'm beginning to think its likely.

There've been discussions about the crown seller rates in the past. Several contributing factors have been mentioned, including 1. the supply of 'un-used' ESO+ crowns drying up as subbers sold them, and 2. Steam closed some loopholes that let people buy Crowns from regions with much lower effective prices. So it's not just financiers trying to jack the rates.

Ratzkifal

Since this thread seems to have been made from a Turkish perspective, my guess is because the economic situation of Turkey and the Lira the Turkey-specific prices first went up a lot and now as pretty much the rest of the world is experiencing inflation as well (Turkey likely not being an exception) this sky-rockets the crown prices in Lira because an increase of ESO+ by 1$ would already be an increase by 17.94 Lira. So it's understandable this would be seen as a dramatic sudden increase, but that's not ZOS' fault - they have to pay bills as well.
That being said, I'm not sure they have increased the dollar or euro price yet, so I'm not sure if this is anything out of the ordinary for the Lira or not.

Knockmaker

Calculating only on a per unit currency basis can be misleading. Minimum wage in TR is 5.5k TRY, and 1.3k EUR in Germany. But that doesn't mean a min. wage worker in Germany can afford fewer crowns, it is the opposite actually. For example, 1 US dollar equals 133 Japanese Yen. This pair has also seen sharp moves in one direction. According to this logic, Japanese players must be subject to unreasonable pricing. I mean, trying to calculate just by looking at the exchange rate may not be enough. As for the inflation part, TR's inflation for the last 2 years is approximately 98% in total. I have been an eso+ subscriber for at least the last 12 months without a pause. When I looked and checked, I saw that the price had not changed during this period. Even if we assume (assume, cos I don't have the historical data for the past 3-4 years) that this pricing has remained the same for the last two years, not just 1 year, this increase is too much. When we try to determine a new price, isn't the important thing here how much we can get from a certain product according to a certain reference value (for example, the minimum wage)? Doesn't the regional pricing feature on platforms like Steam exist for this reason?
To be honest, I don't have a math degree and I'm not very good at math. Also, we don't have any information on zos' data and what they take into account. However, a rough calculation based on the limited available data and official figures makes the current prices far from reasonable. That is what I am saying.

Tandor

Inflation rates and affordability don't really have much if anything to do with regional pricing of global products and services, it's much more to do with currency exchange rates. The post from @dmnqwk offers a pretty good analysis of the situation.