Buff Major Defile > Nerf Radiating Regeneration

Dr_Con

Major Defile in PVP has really not been something to focus on as counterplay to heals. I would imagine if the devs wanted to reduce the amount of healing a group of people receive, then why not tinker with what's already in the game rather than nerfing a skill that genuinely helps people out?

There are many skills that apply this already, and very few sets that do so, and I feel it's worth buffing this debuff instead of nerfing a core restoration ability.

MidniteOwl1913

I don't know why they couldn't have found a better solution either. Radiating Regeneration is a very important skill for healers in PVE.

Turtle_Bot

The issue with healing being so strong in pvp is due to stacking multiple instances of the same heal on everyone (ball groups do this to become immortal in pvp by stacking 12+ regen on everyone, with 12+ x 2k ticks, that's 24k per second healing, no amount of burst reliably goes through that).

The best solution to this issue is to make it so that no ability can stack more than twice on the same person while battle spirit is active, that way pve is unaffected and it removes the immortality that ball groups have through stacking 12+ regen/vigor while not affecting smaller groups or unorganised groups that aren't spamming that many regen/vigor every 2 seconds.

if it's reduced to 2 max stacks per person, then that's 4k healing per second no matter how many are being cast, a lot of burst can fight against that and the skill itself wouldn't have needed to be nerfed. Especially if it's done through battle spirit meaning it won't affect pve at all.

Dr_Con

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

The issue with healing being so strong in pvp is due to stacking multiple instances of the same heal on everyone (ball groups do this to become immortal in pvp by stacking 12+ regen on everyone, with 12+ x 2k ticks, that's 24k per second healing, no amount of burst reliably goes through that).

The best solution to this issue is to make it so that no ability can stack more than twice on the same person while battle spirit is active, that way pve is unaffected and it removes the immortality that ball groups have through stacking 12+ regen/vigor while not affecting smaller groups or unorganised groups that aren't spamming that many regen/vigor every 2 seconds.

if it's reduced to 2 max stacks per person, then that's 4k healing per second no matter how many are being cast, a lot of burst can fight against that and the skill itself wouldn't have needed to be nerfed. Especially if it's done through battle spirit meaning it won't affect pve at all.

These are very good points, even in PVE we don't really see more than 2 stacking radiating, and a handful few trials needing stacking vigour (they can make due with other tactics). I can't believe they allowed it to get so broken in PVP but can't come up with an appropriate counter to it.

Tberg725

Defile seems to work pretty good for our group, when groups are zerged up I usually drop back and start shooting meat bags at people from there I start making call out on people to target after seeing how far their health bar dips after the initial hit and they start getting mowed down

dinokstrunz

I disagree, just look at Elsweyr patch when Stamcro was untouchable back with old defile from Blastbones. All it will do is hurt every other healing in the game that isn't as powerful as Resto heals. So yeah bad approach imo.

Raammzzaa

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

The issue with healing being so strong in pvp is due to stacking multiple instances of the same heal on everyone (ball groups do this to become immortal in pvp by stacking 12+ regen on everyone, with 12+ x 2k ticks, that's 24k per second healing, no amount of burst reliably goes through that).

The best solution to this issue is to make it so that no ability can stack more than twice on the same person while battle spirit is active, that way pve is unaffected and it removes the immortality that ball groups have through stacking 12+ regen/vigor while not affecting smaller groups or unorganised groups that aren't spamming that many regen/vigor every 2 seconds.

if it's reduced to 2 max stacks per person, then that's 4k healing per second no matter how many are being cast, a lot of burst can fight against that and the skill itself wouldn't have needed to be nerfed. Especially if it's done through battle spirit meaning it won't affect pve at all.

This right here is spot on.

edward_frigidhands

Dr_Con wrote: »

Major Defile in PVP has really not been something to focus on as counterplay to heals. I would imagine if the devs wanted to reduce the amount of healing a group of people receive, then why not tinker with what's already in the game rather than nerfing a skill that genuinely helps people out?

There are many skills that apply this already, and very few sets that do so, and I feel it's worth buffing this debuff instead of nerfing a core restoration ability.

Buffing Major Defile would mean buffing Major Mending and Major Vitality. It will also mean revisiting the effects of the minor versions of these effects.

The aforementioned would mean potentially revisiting the strength of abilities and sets that grant any of the aforementioned.

And then what happens when people run dispels and counter those dispels with Plague Break?

You are going to end up with playstyles centered around just these effects because they now carry more power than others, resulting in some major balance issues.

Updates to heal abilities is a better way to balance healing than a massive overhaul that has consequences that are difficult to manage.

Balancing must be done with a scalpel and not a chainsaw.

I understand that what the developers are doing is not necessarily perfect but what you are suggesting is worse.

xDeusEJRx

Buffing defile won't solve anything with radiating regen, they just need to nerf cross healing. Cross healing is quite literally the problem with healing in this game. It DOES NOT MATTER what radiating regen's value is if you can stack 5,6,7,8 radiating regens on you.

Buffing defile just makes it more oppressive to people who can't cross heal, cause if you run in a group and have 2-3 people with defile uptime they can perma defile you, destroy your healing and still cross heal away the damage you put on them. It will make defile a necessity to play PVP but it won't affect cross heal players because they will still have 3+ cross heals per player in their group.

If you have 3 or 4 people all running 3 cross heals that all stack, you aren't killing them period no matter what debuff you give them.

They need to either kill cross healing outside group or make named heals only stack maybe 2 times. Like only 2 radiating regens and nothing more. That's the only way to stop the healing problem in PVP. Cause even if radiating regen heals for 1k in pvp, if 5 people are running 1k heals that's now 5k ticking heals, and that's not including every other shared heal classes have in their kit.

Raammzzaa

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

They need to either kill cross healing outside group or make named heals only stack maybe 2 times. Like only 2 radiating regens and nothing more. That's the only way to stop the healing problem in PVP. Cause even if radiating regen heals for 1k in pvp, if 5 people are running 1k heals that's now 5k ticking heals, and that's not including every other shared heal classes have in their kit.

I think the latter. Recall they limited cross healing to group members in the recent past, which had minimal impact. Folks stacking heals to the fullest effect are typically grouped together.

xDeusEJRx

Raammzzaa wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

They need to either kill cross healing outside group or make named heals only stack maybe 2 times. Like only 2 radiating regens and nothing more. That's the only way to stop the healing problem in PVP. Cause even if radiating regen heals for 1k in pvp, if 5 people are running 1k heals that's now 5k ticking heals, and that's not including every other shared heal classes have in their kit.

I think the latter. Recall they limited cross healing to group members in the recent past, which had minimal impact. Folks stacking heals to the fullest effect are typically grouped together.

Indeed, both would be an improvement to how it is currently. Cause even a zerg surfer on live can be saved by random radiating/cross heals coming from people who just happen to be near them. Or they can get saved by a healer in someone else's group.

Limiting cross healing only to group might have limited success but it would still be a vast improvement, people can't just randomly zerg surf a large group they see and expect to live because of that.