Sustain in this game.

velt88_ESO

Can someone explain to me, how performing a heavy attack would or could restore stamina?
Wouldn't it make more sense for light attacks to restore your resource instead?
For that matter, wouldn't it make more sense if your spammable attack restored your resource?
Heck then you could run any weapons you wanted for flavor and still be able to sustain. I could use daggers for a magicka build!

I don't get how heavy attacks give you sustain though. That just makes negative sense.

As someone who probably rides the skill floor in this game, I largely just spam my spammable and light attacks. I know I could use dots, but thematically I'm not a warlock so I refuse.
So this PTS cycle we're nerfing light attack weaving, rewarding medium attack weaving (god only knows I'ma fail miserably at that) and none of the changes are going to affect how well I can spam my spammables or buff my light attack damage. Oakensoul is getting nerfed.. so my damage will be even worse..

And none of the changes help with sustain, or improve class identity.
They're even nerfing Shadowy Cloak into the dirt -- which is one of the only NB themed abilities I use for tanking.

I'm starting to think there are some design choices that don't make any sense in this game. Am I alone in thinking like this?

Yakidafi

Heavy attacks have always been giving less overall dps and restored resources. Personally I think that is a good way since I like it fast paced. The sense is that you would have to manage your resources and not have infinite resources if your spammables or LA would restore it for you. Resource management have always been important in eso. That make sense?

Oakensoul barely got nerfed in my opinion if at all for pve. Still the number one choice for 1bar builds. How did you guys manage before it existed?

You are not a warlock so you do not use dots..? There are dots which are from the weapon skills, I do not get your reasoning

I do not think class identity is a thing anymore, we are all the same is the theme now.

Medium weaving should fit your playstyle better, simply hold down main attack button a little longer.

StarOfElyon

velt88_ESO wrote: »

Can someone explain to me, how performing a heavy attack would or could restore stamina?
Wouldn't it make more sense for light attacks to restore your resource instead?
For that matter, wouldn't it make more sense if your spammable attack restored your resource?
Heck then you could run any weapons you wanted for flavor and still be able to sustain. I could use daggers for a magicka build!

I don't get how heavy attacks give you sustain though. That just makes negative sense.

As someone who probably rides the skill floor in this game, I largely just spam my spammable and light attacks. I know I could use dots, but thematically I'm not a warlock so I refuse.
So this PTS cycle we're nerfing light attack weaving, rewarding medium attack weaving (god only knows I'ma fail miserably at that) and none of the changes are going to affect how well I can spam my spammables or buff my light attack damage. Oakensoul is getting nerfed.. so my damage will be even worse..

And none of the changes help with sustain, or improve class identity.
They're even nerfing Shadowy Cloak into the dirt -- which is one of the only NB themed abilities I use for tanking.

I'm starting to think there are some design choices that don't make any sense in this game. Am I alone in thinking like this?

I've always thought that resources shouldn't be restored by heavy attacks alone but by enchantments. If you struggle with sustain, use resource enchants. That "makes sense" to me.

velt88_ESO

Yakidafi wrote: »

Heavy attacks have always been giving less overall dps and restored resources. Personally I think that is a good way since I like it fast paced. The sense is that you would have to manage your resources and not have infinite resources if your spammables or LA would restore it for you. Resource management have always been important in eso. That make sense?

Oakensoul barely got nerfed in my opinion if at all for pve. Still the number one choice for 1bar builds. How did you guys manage before it existed?

You are not a warlock so you do not use dots..? There are dots which are from the weapon skills, I do not get your reasoning

I do not think class identity is a thing anymore, we are all the same is the theme now.

Medium weaving should fit your playstyle better, simply hold down main attack button a little longer.

Being able to have some kind of character identity is 100000% of the reason I play RPGs. Guess I need to find a new game to play.

Sluggy

It actually makes a lot of sense to me. Perhaps if they were re-labeled as Slow Attack and Quick Attack it would seem much more natural. A long drawn out attack is obviously going to consume less energy than a rapid pace of furious attacks.

Aside from that however the important part is gameplay, right? And mechanically it just works better. Case number 1) Skyrim. There is literally no good reason to ever use heavy attacks in that game. They use stamina and thus actually reduce your damage output while leaving you vulnerable to everything. Case Number 2) The poorly thought-out heavy/light attack switch test the did on the PTS a couple of years ago. It was just impossible to manage resources in solo content. Restoring a large chunk of resources meant doing several light attacks in a row nonstop without using any skills. When you are under pressure to survive that simply won't work. You need shields or healing or SOMETHING! In the current iteration it is possible to just barely hang on if you weave heavies with defensive skills, at least until a potion or an ultimate or a set proc or anything can pop in time to save you.

So regardless of how it may or may not make sense it actually is a good gameplay design that encourages interactivity and situational awareness. It allows for players with a presence of mind to manage their resources in an elegant way that doesn't disrupt the flow of combat.

Quethrosar

HA takes seconds to work and maybe get a 15k hit from it, easier to just use a skill to get magica back.

Soarora

velt88_ESO wrote: »

Heck then you could run any weapons you wanted for flavor and still be able to sustain. I could use daggers for a magicka build!

You already can do that… many people do, actually. Instead of HAing for resources people use potions, cp, food/drink, resource gain skills, or just have a good sustain build.

velt88_ESO wrote: »

I don't get how heavy attacks give you sustain though. That just makes negative sense.

Thought-wise, no it doesn’t make sense… gameplay-wise though, it’s nice I think.

Sparxlost

i imagine landing a super fat smack on your enemy would be somewhat invigorating so i have zero problem with it.
i dont charge my regular attacks for nothing so if they land id feel somewhat better than if i had wasted all that energy

axi

There was a time when ZoS tried to introduce changes to weapon attacks where light attacks would restore resources and deal less dmg and heavy attacks would deal more dmg and restore no resources. It didn't went through PTS testing because of how much negative feedback these changes recived.

Kode

In real life I feel like my magicka is restored well when I really wind up for an attack. It makes me feel mighty, especially if I yell when I do it. One or two heavy attacks punches and I like to finish off my opponent with a radiant destruction.

nb_rich

If your spammable or light attacks restore resources may as well have no resources at all lol

DYSEQTA

Ever used a sledge hammer?

Try doing lots of quick "light" hits of a stake with one of them and then try again doing big slow "heavy" hits and tell me how you feel.

merpins

The higher your resource regen is, the more you get back from light and heavy attacks. Light attacks do restore your main resource, it's just much less than heavy attacks. Weaving properly doesn't just increase your dps, it also affects your overall sustain. This is also why some people prefer medium attack weaving to this day; more resource regen.

MashmalloMan

velt88_ESO wrote: »

Can someone explain to me, how performing a heavy attack would or could restore stamina?
Wouldn't it make more sense for light attacks to restore your resource instead?

Great example of fun factor + good game design trumping unnecessary real world logic. Suspend your disbelief and realize this is ultimately a video game, game design should come first.

They already tried to make light attacks give resources on a PTS a year or 2 ago and it was awful, the community hated it.

MasterSpatula

Count yourself lucky. At launch, we didn't have any way other than pots to restore resources.