Would you play in a no CP Cyro/IC campaign with no gear sets but with double rewards?

HowlKimchi

The two main purposes for this suggestion is

1. to allow newer players to have a balanced cyro experience.
2. to remove power discrepancy between veteran and new players by setting everyone to the same values which should highlight player skill and group play.


This throws out sets theorycrafting and the ability to insta kill newbs and would introduce some new things to consider. In exchange, the exp, AP, and telvar rewards would be doubled for the incentive to play in this campaign. This idea has been popping up in my mind each time the mayhem event comes, and how newbies are turned off of PvP because they feel like punching bags.

Also, a suggestion for QOL for this campaign could be to have a maxed out mount speed from the get go. Because dying and having to play horse simulator is not a fun new player experience.

What are your thoughts on this? Stupid suggestion? Could be interesting? Double rewards too much?

Sir_Hammock

No

I'm sorry but that sounds absolutely awful. The fun thing about eso pvp is the different types of builds you can create.

Plus what power creep in nocp? There aren't even that many sets you can even use with it being a no-procc campaign.

EnerG

No

Im sorry but this isnt how you balance, that just removes any and fun from actually making and playing a character, im not an avid pvper but sets are a core part of eso and another limited set campaign would be better

HowlKimchi

Yes

Yeah I guess I expected the No's and I can see why. I just think ESO needs an entry level PVP mode that isn't empty 90% of the time, emphasis on entry level.

ESO pvp is dying and it needs an injection of new players.

DreamyLu

No

I use no CP version to wander freely in an almost empty Cyrodiil, like I would be in PvE explorable: egoistically, I don't want that to change...

Bobargus

Yes

In my opinion, this is the best pvp suggestion.

HowlKimchi

Yes

Sir_Hammock wrote: »

I'm sorry but that sounds absolutely awful. The fun thing about eso pvp is the different types of builds you can create.

Plus what power creep in nocp? There aren't even that many sets you can even use with it being a no-procc campaign.

Yeah I 100% agree that theorycrafting builds is the best part of ESO. It's also a great barrier for new players though, especially in PVP. But players are quitting, and we need new players to embrace PVP. That's not gonna happen if players dont have a good new player experience in Cyrodiil.

Power creep I mention is the difference of gold gear and good sets regardless if it's proc or no-proc, compared to a newbies blue gear. I've clarified it in my original post. Thank you.

HowlKimchi

Yes

EnerG wrote: »

Im sorry but this isnt how you balance, that just removes any and fun from actually making and playing a character, im not an avid pvper but sets are a core part of eso and another limited set campaign would be better

Yes im not suggesting this to balance the game for everyone, but just to have a balanced environment for new players. More of a stepping stone into the real world of golden out sets and mythics. I just suggested a 2x reward so it will remain populated because as we know, non-main cyro campaigns are dead 90% of the time, which again, does not provide a fun new player experience.

ApoAlaia

Other

Double rewards seems excessive.

However despite the fact that I am not particularly keen on PvP after engaging with it this Mayhem (my engagement until this point has for the most part been masonry and general maintenance) I am warming up to the idea of dipping my toes in no-CP/no-proc.

I came to the realisation that what was most off-putting from PvP were actually proc sets. I find mildly amusing that proponents of 'proc/CP' often cite 'build diversity' yet 99% of the time the death recap shows the same two sets in combination with maybe three skills.

Don't know, maybe this 'diversity' takes places elsewhere, somewhere I have never been.

Either way I had fun yesterday in no-CP IC, something I thought wholly impossible (enjoying IC in any shape or form that is).

Maybe 10% more gain to make up for the potentially slower 'accrual rate' but tbh for me not having to deal with proc sets has been 'its own reward'.

kargen27

No

HaruKamui wrote: »

Yeah I guess I expected the No's and I can see why. I just think ESO needs an entry level PVP mode that isn't empty 90% of the time, emphasis on entry level.

ESO pvp is dying and it needs an injection of new players.

I'm guessing this zone would also be mostly empty. I understand wanting to give new players a fighting chance but truth is they still wouldn't have much of a chance. One of the biggest adjustments to PvP is all the movement. With PvE most your battles are about getting your enemy standing in one spot and the only time you move is to step out of AoE. With PvP among the experienced players there is a constant movement and flow other than when you can catch someone on the flag unaware. For a long time when I started PvP my Templar spent most her time jabbing air. Well, jabbing air and dying.

redspecter23

Other

I'd do it even without the double rewards.

Amottica

No

I think we have enough customization with the Cyrodiil campaigns. More than should be TBH. Case in point, this would require two campaigns. One is alliance locked and one is not locked.

HaruKamui wrote: »

ESO pvp is dying and it needs an injection of new players.

This is not why PvP died.

DigiAngel

Other

Sure I'd give it a go...as long as I'm not losing anything when I die bring it.

Jarl_Ironheart

Yes

HaruKamui wrote: »

Yeah I guess I expected the No's and I can see why. I just think ESO needs an entry level PVP mode that isn't empty 90% of the time, emphasis on entry level.

ESO pvp is dying and it needs an injection of new players.

I love that people say this would be imbalanced but all the classes and characters would be on the same playing field. That is balanced.

Jarl_Ironheart

Yes

I would definitely like it. It would be nice and refreshing to not have to worry about gear, procs, CP once in a while and just jump in with same power as everyone else and let skill decide. That's how alot of other games do pvp. I get tired of thr fact a crap player can slaughter a skill player if they have some stupid one shot combo build. It doesn't always happen but rhe fact it does is annoying. Gear shouldn't decide the fight.

HowlKimchi

Yes

Jarl_Ironheart wrote: »

I would definitely like it. It would be nice and refreshing to not have to worry about gear, procs, CP once in a while and just jump in with same power as everyone else and let skill decide. That's how alot of other games do pvp. I get tired of thr fact a crap player can slaughter a skill player if they have some stupid one shot combo build. It doesn't always happen but rhe fact it does is annoying. Gear shouldn't decide the fight.

I think gearing up for pvp should still be part of cyro combat at the endgame level. As it stands now though, there is no form of accessible pvp for newer accounts.

kargen27 wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

Yeah I guess I expected the No's and I can see why. I just think ESO needs an entry level PVP mode that isn't empty 90% of the time, emphasis on entry level.

ESO pvp is dying and it needs an injection of new players.

I'm guessing this zone would also be mostly empty. I understand wanting to give new players a fighting chance but truth is they still wouldn't have much of a chance. One of the biggest adjustments to PvP is all the movement. With PvE most your battles are about getting your enemy standing in one spot and the only time you move is to step out of AoE. With PvP among the experienced players there is a constant movement and flow other than when you can catch someone on the flag unaware. For a long time when I started PvP my Templar spent most her time jabbing air. Well, jabbing air and dying.

Yes I know what you are saying, but wouldn't you agree that if they don't auto die against min maxed builds in a few seconds, they can focus on learning the movement much better?

Jamie_Aubrey

Other

Give everyone a choice of 2-3 sets that way its just about skill and not who has certain sets that give you x whatever

Tranquilizer

Yes

I would play any changes for double ap

Jokes aside, I'd have no problems if ZOS would introduce unified sets per role for Cyrodiil, but I get it that for some people it's a lot of fun theorycrafting sets and builds. Or is it more to find broken builds to abuse ?

Anyway, I think a better approach would be to separate gear sets, allowing pve sets for pve only and pvp sets for pvp only. The main problem imo is when sets that are designed for pve are carried over to pvp and being abused, like Oakensoul Ring or Ironblood Armor. This always leads to heavy nerfs that upsets everyone.

To do this ZOS just has to create a new option for the last piece set bonus, "Does only work if battlespirit is active" for pvp and "Does only work if battlespirit is NOT active" for pve sets. With that ZOS can balance one playstyle without interfering the other. They already did it with Rallying Cry.

The requirements are all already in the game, they just have to use them.

Also, only for pvp, I think ZOS should restrict the type of item pieces for some sets, for example a pvp tank armor should only be available as body pieces so people have to deal with the downsides of heavy armor and are prevented from getting the tanky benefits over weapons and jewelry. Also, strong weapon buffs should only be available through weapons and jewelery. ZOS already did similar with Potentates or Willpower sets. This would make it much easier for the combat team to balance things.

Roztlin45

No

No, what needs to happen is some.sets should be locked.out of pvp. That way pve players can have their sets and pvp players don't have to deal with extremely exploitable op sets. Like oakensoul. Maybe that would also help balance and cut down on all the extreme nerf.

ZOS_Hadeostry

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic.

Thank you for your understanding

Kartalin

No

If it’s anything like pc/na’s Ravenwatch then it’d still most likely be two severely underpopulated factions outnumbered by a third starving for fights.

Bigmatt2

No

Here is what I think ESO needs to help new players into Cyrodill.

We should have a smaller zone map that we can use as a guild to practice.

Essentially it's just a small zone with 1 keep and 3 resources. Give us the opportunity to place our guildies into teams and then just play it out like you would a typical cyrodill fight.

Having one guild in the same zone fighting both offense and defense allows for a training element to the game. Right now, you are just thrown in there at such a rapid pace that it can get frustrating. You know they want to ask questions, but are reluctant too, because as crown you are making battle callouts.

Don't really offer rewards for it, but you could allow the game master to select different parameters, such as 4v4 or 4v8, scrolls buff, home keep buff. You could maybe even give someone temporary EMP stats.

The technology is there to do it. They just need a little motivation.

HowlKimchi

Yes

Bigmatt2 wrote: »

Here is what I think ESO needs to help new players into Cyrodill.

We should have a smaller zone map that we can use as a guild to practice.

Essentially it's just a small zone with 1 keep and 3 resources. Give us the opportunity to place our guildies into teams and then just play it out like you would a typical cyrodill fight.

Having one guild in the same zone fighting both offense and defense allows for a training element to the game. Right now, you are just thrown in there at such a rapid pace that it can get frustrating. You know they want to ask questions, but are reluctant too, because as crown you are making battle callouts.

Don't really offer rewards for it, but you could allow the game master to select different parameters, such as 4v4 or 4v8, scrolls buff, home keep buff. You could maybe even give someone temporary EMP stats.

The technology is there to do it. They just need a little motivation.

For me, a separate tutorial area wont work, especially if it is player driven, AND a guild is required. A drop-in drop-out system that's available 24/7 without having to coordinate with anyone is still better. As such, aside from this suggested campaign, I think it would be much better if the existing Cyro maps had QoL changes for the newer players:

- ZoS made a group finder for pug zergs,

- The cyro map provided way more info to help newbs read the battlefield. Veterans should have no problem with this since we can already read how battles will play out because of experience.

- Horses automatically have max speed in cyro (because newbs WILL die, and playing horse simulator is not fun)

HowlKimchi

Yes

Kartalin wrote: »

If it’s anything like pc/na’s Ravenwatch then it’d still most likely be two severely underpopulated factions outnumbered by a third starving for fights.

Yeah. Could be nice if the game distributes the people entering this campaign to the three factions evenly. Emp is disabled, no long term campaign rewards as a result though.

xDeusEJRx

Yes

I would because I prefer no proc anyway, only play proc enabled because there's not a no proc population on console

AvalonRanger

No

1, Buying "Enchant hakejyo" or endeavor mission is only my purpose to go to Imperial City.

2, This game almost doesn't have any of environment passive gimmick. Destroying character building
is most stupid suggestion. Totally nonsense.

DrSlaughtr

No

I don't think we should enable new players to just go out into the game without any care to join guilds and learn from others. That's what this idea would further, while also being a haven for trolls looking for easy AP and telvar.

Every player should join a social guild. People are always willing to craft armor for others and there are many crafted sets that work great in pvp.

Now I do think under 50 campaigns really suck for new players because they are ruled by vets who just make new characters to keep running rough shot over the legit no CP players.

blktauna

No

ninjagank wrote: »

Now I do think under 50 campaigns really suck for new players because they are ruled by vets who just make new characters to keep running rough shot over the legit no CP players.

legit. I went into cyro at lvl 16 because im crazy but not everyone is me. there needs to be a learning area and under 50 is def not that place.

Holycannoli

Not a Cyrodiil campaign but might be interesting for a Battleground

ninjagank wrote: »

I don't think we should enable new players to just go out into the game without any care to join guilds and learn from others. That's what this idea would further, while also being a haven for trolls looking for easy AP and telvar.

Every player should join a social guild. People are always willing to craft armor for others and there are many crafted sets that work great in pvp.

I'm not in nor have I ever been in a guild. Maybe one day I'll look for one but it is not this day.

DrSlaughtr

No

Holycannoli wrote: »

Not a Cyrodiil campaign but might be interesting for a Battleground

ninjagank wrote: »

I don't think we should enable new players to just go out into the game without any care to join guilds and learn from others. That's what this idea would further, while also being a haven for trolls looking for easy AP and telvar.

Every player should join a social guild. People are always willing to craft armor for others and there are many crafted sets that work great in pvp.

I'm not in nor have I ever been in a guild. Maybe one day I'll look for one but it is not this day.

That's your choice but this is what leads to players a year in to develop bad habits, stubbornness and refusal to accept help when content difficulty outpaces their bad habits. Maybe that doesn't apply to you but it certainly does to many players.

I had a trials guild for awhile. This was shortly after Elsweyr dropped.

My team had already cleared vSS. We lost our tank and needed a new one. I had a guy begging to be main

Unfortunately he had spent years "playing how he wanted" with random people and wasn't open to suggestions. He felt because he could tank vet dlc dungeons he could do new trials like vSS in leeching and plague doctor.

We tried a week of it. Failed every day. Hoped at the end of the week he would realize he was wrong because I wanted to get him the clear. He blamed us and left. A mutual friend told me he quit the game not long later because no one would let him tank the hard trials.

martinhpb16_ESO

Other

There are hardly enough players left to fill the current campaigns