Should the game receive more "cursed" sets?

Foxtrot39

We've been getting sets for years now that adds no drawback outside having to choose between this one 5 piece bonus or another one 5 piece bonus

Which frankly played its part in the power creep ZoS tries to curb now

They've also got the potential to allow specific playstyle (Increase ranged damage but lower melee damage as example)

El_Borracho

No

I'm assuming by "cursed" set you are referring to something like Talfyg's Treachery:

(2 items) Adds 657 Critical Chance
(3 items) Adds 1096 Max Magicka
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
(5 items) Increases Weapon and Spell Damage by 372. Increases damage taken from Flame and Fighter's Guild abilities by 5%.

Aside from the buffs being unremarkable, why would anyone want to wear a set that increases damage against them? Especially flame damage? There are far more sets out there to choose from.

For me to even consider a set where damage against me is raised, the buffs better be much, much better than that.

AcadianPaladin

No

I totally ignore cursed sets - not interested in self-inflicting a drawback to have a bonus.

I also ignore sets that are too complicated and/or conditional. A good clue is if it takes more than about 7 or eight words to describe the 5th bonus, I pass on it.

Foxtrot39

El_Borracho wrote: »

I'm assuming by "cursed" set you are referring to something like Talfyg's Treachery:

(2 items) Adds 657 Critical Chance
(3 items) Adds 1096 Max Magicka
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
(5 items) Increases Weapon and Spell Damage by 372. Increases damage taken from Flame and Fighter's Guild abilities by 5%.

Aside from the buffs being unremarkable, why would anyone want to wear a set that increases damage against them? Especially flame damage? There are far more sets out there to choose from.

For me to even consider a set where damage against me is raised, the buffs better be much, much better than that.

Doesn't has to be about lowering your survivability

Curse only mean you sarifice something for something else, good example was Iron Blood, 30% mitigation but you became a sitting duck

Molag Kena/NMA where you gained damage but raised ability cost

The idea is "the bigger the curse, the bigger the bonus", the curse itself prevent it to be abused in PVP where nearly all sets used are named "freebie self casting abilities"

Mionikoi

Yes

Yes. I think it would be a great idea if you get a large enough value for desirable stats while sacrificing others. If it comes with debuffs make the pay off worth it. A 'cursed set' by rule should be a balance of sacrifice and reward. Extra fire damage for better than average max magicka or whatever...

But then again. It will probably get nerfed....

SkaraMinoc

No

Foxtrot39 wrote: »

We've been getting sets for years now that adds no drawback <snip>

Which frankly played its part in the power creep ZoS tries to curb now

You have this backwards. Sets and abilities that give massive power boost eventually get used in a way where the drawback becomes a non-issue. This is how you end up with power creep and builds that spiral out of control.

Foxtrot39

I don't see iron blood being meta in PVP, nor molag kena/NMA being BiS to do a mid fight burst/gank with nightbaldes

All I've seen are free damage abilities disguised as proc sets on virtually the whole PVP playerbase not one "cursed" set seems to be used there, "if it doesn't deal damage or hinder heal/sustain/ressource management of my enemy then it ain't worth slotting" seems to be the PVP mantra

It all depend how the drawbacks are implemented and where they fit in the formula used by the game for that aspect

El_Borracho

No

@Foxtrot39 got it. The issue in that case will always be at what point is it diminishing returns? If I were to consider wearing a set like Molag Kena or NMA in PVE, the gains have to be far more than 400-600 weapon damage. I would want the old Major Berserk at 25% instead of the current 10%, at the very least, if I am spending 5-8% more for my skills. Currently, there isn't a set out there that provides that kind of dealer's choice. I don't care about 400 additional weapon damage if my skills are always going to cost 5% more. Now if you give me 1,000 more weapon damage, that would be a proper trade off

Ironblood is actually not a bad set if you are a new tank in a stationary boss fight, or a main tank in something damage-heavy with little movement.

Mionikoi

Yes

Forgive me for maybe misinterpreting things. But would a 'cursed set' also be something that could also reduce your max health so if you only have base health you end up going even lower than average? So you could have a build that has only 1k Hp but is capable of one shotting almost everything (until reflective tanks come back.)

Foxtrot39

Maybe not pushed to that extreme

El_Borracho

No

Foxtrot39 wrote: »

Maybe not pushed to that extreme

Its just has to be better than what is offered. I can get better damage with other sets. I need a reason to want to incur more damage if I am going to use a cursed set

YandereGirlfriend

Yes

Yes, I would take this instantly over even more of the overly complicated (and typically boring) "stack" based sets that we've been receiving since like Summerset with Relequen.

But you need the incentive to be worth it, which most of the current "cursed" sets are not. Looking at Talfyg's from the above, you can see that it's barely better than Julianos, a base-game Crafted set with no strings attached to its use. Why would anyone ever use Talfyg's and incur the penalty? Maybe if you bumped up its damage from 372 to 500 or made it a vampire set that increased in power (and penalty) with your vampire stage. But as-is, there's no way - and I don't think I've ever known someone who has ever intentionally used or farmed that set.

karekiz

No

Cursed sets have had the most impact on power creep. Were you here during Stranglers META? Oakensoul is a "cursed" set by design <it locks weapon swapping> and it has power creep issues. ROTPO had a "Curse" that you can only heal yourself, it ended with DPS all slotting it on raids.

Foxtrot39

The problem is that Mythics aren't proper cursed sets, they're marketing gimmick to sell expansions and the greymore chapter as its the only expansion that get more valuable as new chapters come out (as much I woud love to see DLC guild also getting some love every chapter but that's not the topic)

So obviously they're made as attractive/OP as possible to be bought before getting nerfed by the next combat update

I refere to 2- 5 piece set such as Iron blood or monster set like Molag kena when I talk about "cursed" sets

chessalavakia_ESO

Yes

Yes but, you'd want them to do stuff that's sub-optimal in High End PvP/High End PvE.

if the benefit is useful in those areas, it'll get overused then nerfed into being worthless for everyone.

karthrag_inak

No

Every set is already potentially cursed by the quarterly "What Arbitrary Combat Changes Will We Make This Time?" Roulette wheel.

Foxtrot39

nah that's the game being cursed with the "can't make up your mind" spell

ESO_Nightingale

We already have cursed balanced patches lol

Zama666

Yes

Isn't that what Mythics do?
Good & Bad?

Suligost

Yes

Yes, penalty and reward is better then getting power creep without penalties. Honestly there are usually some sets that make you overperforming without penalty untill ofcorse it get nerfed and be on level of any other set.

I don't see point of adding in next dlcs, updates sets that add same 300-450 damage or heal you for 1000 HP per X seconds or give you the same 7-10% mitigation. All sets do the same thing and only class unbalance rly make difference at this point.

Honestly that combined with cooldowns would be my idea of ESO future. Force people to play strategically, end spamming, braindead gameplay, make the game interesting.

Vetixio

Yes

El_Borracho wrote: »

I'm assuming by "cursed" set you are referring to something like Talfyg's Treachery:

(2 items) Adds 657 Critical Chance
(3 items) Adds 1096 Max Magicka
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
(5 items) Increases Weapon and Spell Damage by 372. Increases damage taken from Flame and Fighter's Guild abilities by 5%.

Aside from the buffs being unremarkable, why would anyone want to wear a set that increases damage against them? Especially flame damage? There are far more sets out there to choose from.

For me to even consider a set where damage against me is raised, the buffs better be much, much better than that.

Talfyg's would be better if it also gave 372 Weapon and Spell damage as well as 372 Weapon and Spell Damage to Vampire abilities and reduce Vampire ability costs by 5%.

Finedaible

I'd be inclined to answer yes. Historically however, every time the combat team introduced something powerful with a drawback they seem to get immensely offended when players figure out creative ways to utilize the tools they are given and end up destroying their own ideas over it. So it's really kind of pointless to introduce more 'cursed sets' in the context of their whimsical philosophies. Vampire's Mist getting neutered because it was being utilized in creative ways in trials being a prime example. Oakensoul ring is not far off from this controversy either. If combat team wasn't so obsessed with forcing players to play the game the way they envisioned versus fostering an environment of creativity and fun, then we might just see some cool stuff in the future. Until they figure out what they want to do we aren't likely to see any interesting "kiss-curse" sets in the future in my opinion.

mocap

debuf sets can help to roleplay overland difficulty, thats for sure. Two birds with one stone ya know )

Stx

Yes

Curse sets are fun to build around, but they have to be done right. Pelinals wrath is a good example of a curse set done poorly.

WrathOfInnos

No

Stx wrote: »

Curse sets are fun to build around, but they have to be done right. Pelinals wrath is a good example of a curse set done poorly.

Interesting, I'll have to try that one. I was saying no because I think most curse sets are poorly balanced. Why would anyone use Talfygs or New Moon Acolyte when other sets do more damage without a curse? NMA at launch was ok, but 401 Weapon/Spell damage is a joke when all your skills cost 5% more (even ults). Thrassians was overpowered initially, but is pretty terrible these days (basically 3 curses, lower survivability, difficult to build stacks, and all progress lost on death or zoning). Even things like Pirate Skeleton are bad, 10% mitigation but you take 8% less healing and it only had 75% uptime, definitely not worth 2 gear slots.

Stx

Yes

Curse sets are hard to balance. New moon is a perfect example, because at launch it was too good, but post nerf its not worth using. Talfygs to me is a fine set, the 5% increase from fighters guild is pvp only, and 5% flame damage isn't much really, especially if your group has encratis. 370 passive spell power on something like a templar is pretty nice, although I will admit there are plenty of other sets to get that same level of damage.

New moon could probably be bumped up to 450, and talf to 400. They would probably both be used then.

AndreNoir

No

Some sets should provide a specific way to play. Pelinal's wrath is hardly cursed btw - it's cool for arenas on nb with mark or on anyone with vengeance leech.
From PVP point of view there is already a "cursed" gear - light armor

Mionikoi

Yes

I think it is important that we settle on how we define what a 'Cursed Set' is.

My vote is any 1 to 12 piece (until zos adds more slots. Hint hint, back packs, cough) that takes away more than it gives.

Imagine a gauntlet mythic that lets you slot four jewlery at the sacrafice of weapons. Or a shield that only lets you equip another shield but spike aura!

Or a helmet that steals away all of your regens but automatically gives you tri-steal.

Or something that recks your max stats in way or another and gives you X stat.

Or a ring that forces you to be wear no armor but procs a fear debuff every xx seconds.

Foxtrot39

Mionikoi wrote: »

I think it is important that we settle on how we define what a 'Cursed Set' is.

My vote is any 1 to 12 piece (until zos adds more slots. Hint hint, back packs, cough) that takes away more than it gives.

Imagine a gauntlet mythic that lets you slot four jewlery at the sacrafice of weapons. Or a shield that only lets you equip another shield but spike aura!

Or a helmet that steals away all of your regens but automatically gives you tri-steal.

Or something that recks your max stats in way or another and gives you X stat.

Or a ring that forces you to be wear no armor but procs a fear debuff every xx seconds.

Can only think of this after reading this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_A7UZFzsrn8

I think auto proc is too much of a razor's edge to walk on, too many risk of it going haywire

Modifying your item slot number is likely never gonna happen but after what happened to warden Winter's revenge wouldn't be far fetched to make some sets only function with certain weapon type equiped

Vevvev

Vetixio wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

I'm assuming by "cursed" set you are referring to something like Talfyg's Treachery:

(2 items) Adds 657 Critical Chance
(3 items) Adds 1096 Max Magicka
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
(5 items) Increases Weapon and Spell Damage by 372. Increases damage taken from Flame and Fighter's Guild abilities by 5%.

Aside from the buffs being unremarkable, why would anyone want to wear a set that increases damage against them? Especially flame damage? There are far more sets out there to choose from.

For me to even consider a set where damage against me is raised, the buffs better be much, much better than that.

Talfyg's would be better if it also gave 372 Weapon and Spell damage as well as 372 Weapon and Spell Damage to Vampire abilities and reduce Vampire ability costs by 5%.

I'd actually use that.