Sorceror King Orgrum/Maormer deck needs to be deleted

Neoauspex

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Tesman85 wrote: »

I've had one or two matches against Orgnum and dislike it heartily. It's just so low-brow strategy: Get patron's favor, keep spamming it. There are only two effective counter-strategies that I can think of, and both require one of the patrons being the crow.

First strategy: Get every single crow card you can - especially those that give additional draws as combo bonus - and pray the Orgnum spammer doesn't get to 40 before you have a solid deck of them. Also, get a few prestige cards or Hlaalu super-coin cards. Then, pull a crowcapolypse (a word I learned from a fellow ToT player) where you get almost the whole deck as additional draws, then use the crow patron to convert the coins to power. RNG being favorable, this can end the match in a single swoop.

Second strategy: Collect all Hlaalu coin cards and every prestige card you can. Then, when you get a particularly good coin haul, use the crow. After that, use Hlaalu grandmaster to sell cards for power.

I would like to see Orgnum changed so that it doesn't give anything anymore when the patron favors a player. The Boarding Party card should be the reward in the neutral position and could be boosted to give 3 prestige. That way it would be more sensible.

I still play against NPCs only. I don't like to pick the Crow patron against them, because they generally play it so badly.

An expert NPC, with Orgnum and without Crow, is a serious challenge for me, to a much greater extent than any other NPC scenario has been.

As long as they don't pick the blue psijic deck you can get a pretty much automatic patron victory, you just have to use Orgnum last.

AnduinTryggva

I on my side think it would be interesting to explore if simply changing the costs of Orgnum patron interaction could to the trick.

Leave cost as is for turning Orgnum from neutral to favored: 3 coins as of now.
Reduce costs for turning Orgnum from favored to neutral: 2 coins, so less cheap and less penalty for the player trying to buy a suitable deck
Increase cost for reactivating Orgnum in favored position: 4 coins. This would increase the chances that the player going for Orgnum spam has not enough money to reactivate and sometimes has to evaluate if buying a gold card is the better option.

CuriousChrisK

I agree that the Patron is far too strong and needs to be tweaked in a way to make it less powerful. Maybe reduce the power gained and cannot be used every turn?

I've had more than a few games where it was literally a Patron button push with no chance of collecting anything else in game.

The deck itself I feel isn't overpowering but could do with a drop in some Power or Prestige on some lesser value cards.

AnduinTryggva

I have to say I have zero respect for ppl spamming Orgnum. This is such a cheap "strategy" (it is not really a strategy, just button clicking).

spacefracking

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

I have to say I have zero respect for ppl spamming Orgnum. This is such a cheap "strategy" (it is not really a strategy, just button clicking).

Once I figured out how to play it, if you play against someone else who knows how to play it, it's actually competitive-ish. The removal of the free maomer boarding party card when favored is a huge boon though. Just gotta do all the math out beforehand

Oddemus

Ultimately, that deck is why I lost interest in ToT.

dinokstrunz

Reminds me of the awful invade mechanic that was introduced to Elder Scrolls Legends, became a easy spam mechanic which just snowballed. Utter bore to the game.

RedTalon

Tuonra2 wrote: »

Heartrage wrote: »

Duke and red eagle can also beat orgnum. Deck thinning is bad for them so they don’t and they can’t build up enough duke cards because they don’t have gold generation.

Sure, but an orgnum player is going first, so if you give them good crow cards or a raid they just pick that and you are already behind.
Red eagle has a power card so can ruin your turn one 6g, and crow has good 4cost cards that give player 1 the edge.

If you get any raw power cards in the first two turns using that deck its a sure bet at a win, no matter what the foe choses, been testing it out some

spacefracking

RedTalon wrote: »

Tuonra2 wrote: »

Heartrage wrote: »

Duke and red eagle can also beat orgnum. Deck thinning is bad for them so they don’t and they can’t build up enough duke cards because they don’t have gold generation.

Sure, but an orgnum player is going first, so if you give them good crow cards or a raid they just pick that and you are already behind.
Red eagle has a power card so can ruin your turn one 6g, and crow has good 4cost cards that give player 1 the edge.

If you get any raw power cards in the first two turns using that deck its a sure bet at a win, no matter what the foe choses, been testing it out some

Yeah, that's one way to play it. There are a bunch I've found, it just takes a lot of math and pre-planning... it's super unfair to new players cuz you have to know how to play out a whole game in your head

They removed the favored patron action giving a maomer boarding party card tho, so it makes the game slightly more fluid if someone (evil-ly) picks that deck

RedTalon

spacefracking wrote: »

RedTalon wrote: »

Tuonra2 wrote: »

Heartrage wrote: »

Duke and red eagle can also beat orgnum. Deck thinning is bad for them so they don’t and they can’t build up enough duke cards because they don’t have gold generation.

Sure, but an orgnum player is going first, so if you give them good crow cards or a raid they just pick that and you are already behind.
Red eagle has a power card so can ruin your turn one 6g, and crow has good 4cost cards that give player 1 the edge.

If you get any raw power cards in the first two turns using that deck its a sure bet at a win, no matter what the foe choses, been testing it out some

Yeah, that's one way to play it. There are a bunch I've found, it just takes a lot of math and pre-planning... it's super unfair to new players cuz you have to know how to play out a whole game in your head

They removed the favored patron action giving a maomer boarding party card tho, so it makes the game slightly more fluid if someone (evil-ly) picks that deck

Thats good cause once paired it with the red eagle deckj, got a night raid right off and my foe didnt recover well, they started to bu t had already started pumping out boarding parties and another raid came upo no chance after got 3 parties and two raids

cyclonus11

I can't even beat NPCs with Orgnum :wrists:

cyclonus11

After 3 consecutive losses to the first NPC of the daily, I finally won! Now to do the same with the second...

Rooatouille

spacefracking wrote: »

They removed the favored patron action giving a maomer boarding party card tho, so it makes the game slightly more fluid if someone (evil-ly) picks that deck

Where did you get this information? None of the PTS patch notes up to this point (8.1.4) have mentioned any changes to Orgnum (neither patron nor card functions).

Psilent

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Rooatouille wrote: »

spacefracking wrote: »

They removed the favored patron action giving a maomer boarding party card tho, so it makes the game slightly more fluid if someone (evil-ly) picks that deck

Where did you get this information? None of the PTS patch notes up to this point (8.1.4) have mentioned any changes to Orgnum (neither patron nor card functions).

It’s currently active on the PTS. They probably forgot to put it into the patch notes.

Rooatouille

Psilent wrote: »

It’s currently active on the PTS. They probably forgot to put it into the patch notes.

Interesting. Curious to see if the change makes into live. I like the change, but don’t feel it’s enough to address the patron’s game-warping influence. I hesitate to say it’s “overpowered” because it’s certainly a beatable strategy, but I do think the patron’s function alters the way the game is played to a significant degree and fundamentally changes how opponents go about playing the game regardless of their strategic intentions.

EDIT: After further investigation, the PTS does NOT appear to have this change incorporated? See screenshot below showing 4g Scratch and Orgnum’s patron tooltip that was also confirmed not to be a visual bug. (Disclaimer: this screenshot was not taken by myself, but was provided and edited to remove the user’s account name).

Roxxsmom

I usually manage to beat the npcs with Ogrim by snatching whatever cheap "point" cards or ogrim cards come up during the first three turns (instead of flushing the 1s). That way I have cards that will give me points once the npc starts their endless cycle of clicking the Ogrim patron. It's kind of funny to see them get more and more frantic as the game progresses and they are falling behind. I've even had them abandon the clicking strategy a couple of times.

Still makes for a dull and one-dimensional game, though, and it doesn't always work if they get really lucky and manage to get several of the 2-3 point ogrim cards early on.

tru418

I think an increase in the cost of coin to activate the card would work, but the current way is not working. Same with Raj, it should cost more.