Looking to get into PvP

Sleeping_OwI

PvE veteran here, magDK main. Apart from some battlegrounds here and there to unlock Caltrops on characters, I haven't done any proper PvP really.

How do I get into PvP? What sets do I make? Preferrably just a few sets that would work well everywhere, not situational sets, as I dont wanna spend too much resources on PvP just yet.

I generally prefer the fast paced combat of battlegrounds where you're constantly in combat and revive quickly, not like cyrodiil or IC where you respawn miles away. Should I only make a no-CP build for BGs?

Which build do I choose? Which traits on which weapons, armor, jewelry? How much of each stat and resources do I want?

Any general tips I should know?

Thanks in advance for any advice

OBJnoob

I wouldn’t make a no cp setup for battlegrounds, no. You can use proc sets in bgs so it’s always seemed more like a gray host than a ravenwatch to me. For every offensive cp you have the opponent probably has a defensive one to counter it out. The only thing you might want to do is run a little more sustain, as I think that’s the main thing cp helps you with. But I’d flip the sustain back and fourth from cp to non cp with mundus or food, thereby saving you having to farm a whole different 5 piece set.

I’ll let someone else tell you what sets are good, I normally play in ravenwatch when I’m not doing battlegrounds so other than mythics and monster sets I don’t keep a lot of proc stuff handy. I still feel like I do very well in bgs so I wouldn’t worry about it if I were you. Getting used to the mode and just practicing pvp will pay greater dividends in the beginning than farming god knows what.

The traits are different. Depending on your play style you’re gonna want a heavy head, chest, legs with reinforced trait and probably tristat glyph. Smaller pieces can be medium well fitted, smallest pieces can be light impen. That’s pretty much how I do it anyway, as you said, for a well rounded approach that works in multiple situations. Might need to increase your hp a bit too. 30k, give or take, is what you want.

ketsparrowhawk

Here’s a basic magDK pvp build that I get good results with (I almost exclusively play BG’s): https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=198568

Pvp builds are pretty personal but that would be a good starting point to get some ideas at least. All stats shown are “fully buffed”.

You could replace talons with burning embers if you want. You could replace Blessing of Restoration with coagulating blood (I like blessing bc I can heal allies with it). You could craft Wretched in heavy instead of light if you prefer. Lots of room to adjust to your liking.

What helped me the most getting into pvp was watching “pvp commentary” videos on YouTube. After a while the info just kinda sinks in. KristoferESO is pretty good at it.

Good luck!

fred4

Right now? Something like Oakensoul, Rallying Cry, Bloodspawn, 3x Blessing of Potentates, 1x Trainee. You practically need Rallying Cry to offset the crit damage from everyone else's Oakensoul builds. Rallying Cry looks set to remain a good set. Oakensoul will, however, be nerfed in a couple of weeks. If you like to play single bar builds, it should remain your best option, but I don't think it will remain meta to play single bar builds. Not my video, but this guy has it about right:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgkmJQswmuM

DaisyRay

I don't really play a DK so I don't know much about what works best for them.

I will however suggest to use impen and a mix of all three armors if possible. If not, I'd just make sure I have at least some heavy mixed in. If you can afford it, tri stat enchants on the body is always wonderful. Spell Damage or Physical Damage enchants for your jewelry. I'm sure someone will say which is better for your class.

I would make sure you have one good heal on your bars. If you use two bars, just throw a resto staff on the back. If you are one bar, maybe vigor or whatever DK has to heal them.

Some CP things I would invest in are: Spirit Mastery, Piecing Gaze, Slippery, Defiance, Tireless Discipline, Eldritch Insight, Focused Mending, and most of the non slottable ones in Extended Might. There are more, but I think those are some of the key ones any pvper should have.

Everyone will tell you to have 30k health, however you also needs resistance. Crit resistance and physical and spell resistance. At the very least, 2k crit resist seems decent. Health doesn't matter that much if your resistance isn't very good.

Try not to zerg too close to others, the bombs in pvp are brutal and really punish you for grouping up lol.

I would also watch youtube videos, it really helps you get a feel of things. Asian Mayhem is one of the best youtube gankers that I've seen. His videos will show you a lot of mistakes people make in pvp. You'll also experience them first hand and that's okay. Honestly, the best way to learn is to just jump right in and play. That's what I did and I've learned a lot.

fred4

DaisyRay wrote: »

I don't really play a DK so I don't know much about what works best for them.

The meta is high-uptime Corrosive Armor with Oakensoul. When you're in Corrosive Armor 70% to 80% of the time, that skews your build, although the JTK video still recommends a reasonably defensive setup, with which I agree. Overall damage is just so high.

I will however suggest to use impen

Crit resistance is badly needed right now, but the Impen trait remains in such a nerfed state that other traits typically still beat it. Well-Fitted is tops in my book, or a mixture of Impen and Well-Fitted. Depends on your playstyle. Maybe Sturdy if you use 1H+S and you're blocking more. I basically agree with the video I posted.

and a mix of all three armors if possible.

I think there is no particular reason to be specific on this point. You probably need some light for sustain on mag DK. You may want medium to play into DKs Minor Brutality passive. On a DK: Stack weapon damage. Sprint speed and dodge roll sustain are also always good.

If not, I'd just make sure I have at least some heavy mixed in.

I think armor types are evenly balanced now. Heavy does not make you tanky. It's just different. It improves your healing and gives you some sustain from being attacked. On the other hand it has a magic damage penalty. You take more magic damage in heavy, of which there is a lot around, and there are a lot of other Corrosive DKs that bypass your resistances altogether. In those encounters heavy armor is a disadvantage. Heavy armor wearers are the ones that are hit hardest by flame staff DK ganking builds for example. It's counter-intuitive, but here we are.

If you can afford it, tri stat enchants on the body is always wonderful.

Agree.

Spell Damage or Physical Damage enchants for your jewelry. I'm sure someone will say which is better for your class.

Physical, e.g. weapon damage. Even on a mag DK. That's where we currently are with hybridisation.

I would make sure you have one good heal on your bars.

If you look at the video, he uses two. Resolving Vigor and Coagulating Blood. He also uses Burning Embers for the heal over time in some build variations. I agree with that approach. You want to survive, this is where it's at, even in an Oakensoul build where bar space is at a premium.

If you use two bars, just throw a resto staff on the back.

Could be good, but I think that's debatable. DK has a blocking passive. As a rule of thumb a 1H+S back bar feels more survivable to play for me in general. You can stack heals, e.g. Regeneration from the resto staff, but your rotation becomes that little bit more unwieldy, if you stack that with Vigor. Personally I prefer different types of heals. A HOT (Vigor) - preventative, a burst heal (Coag) - reactive, and a heal from doing damage (Burning Embers) is a good combination, for example.

If you are one bar, maybe vigor or whatever DK has to heal them.

More than one heal.

Everyone will tell you to have 30k health, however you also needs resistance. Crit resistance and physical and spell resistance. At the very least, 2k crit resist seems decent. Health doesn't matter that much if your resistance isn't very good.

The problem with running lower than 30K health is that that's the one piece of information the attacking nightblade sees about you. It makes you a target. You're a nightblade magnet. I should know, because I tend to run low health builds. Wouldn't do it on DK, though. I've occasionally been in 35K to 40K health builds and people have backed off when their initial attack failed in a way that I never usually see, even though I wasn't actually tanky, just high health. It's a deterrent. Like an alarm sticker on your car window.

It's where to get resistances that is the problem. The Impen gear trait is in such a poor state, I think Well-Fitted is just better. I'm in agreement with the video. I've started using the crit resist CP, since Ironclad CP was nerfed. By far the best option, though, is Rallying Cry. I've been meaning to try Impregnable on top of it, but the Oakensoul (Major Force) patch is almost over.

Resistances can be bypassed by other Corrosive DKs and damage in general has been so high that I think damage avoidance - fast movement - is more important than ever. That's why you see JTK gaming (and me) recommending Well-Fitted and he's using a bow, e.g. to get the Major Expedition from roll dodging, not just from casting Race Against Time (aka RAT). RAT takes a second to cast and you may like it to get that short (soon to be buffed) root / snare immunity. A bow gives you Major Expedition immediately on dodge roll. It makes a difference. The crit from bow, not normally the best PvP weapon, also plays into the Oakensoul patch.

That said, movement heavy damage avoidance playstyles, while very prevalent, are perhaps an acquired taste. You either fall into that category or the tanky bruiser category. This patch IMO pushes you into movement, because damage is so high. On the other hand there are resistance sets as follows:

Aetherial Ascension. Crafted. The drawback is actually bearable, at least with CP. Dodge rolls have an escalating cost, for example. It's not the extra 20% cost from this set that will kill you. It's using them too much in a row either way.

Trial by Fire. Crafted. Protects you when you have a negative effect on you, which you often will. There could be ganks where this doesn't activate, though, or not in time.

Pariah. The old standby. Synergises with vamp's Undeath passive. However again: No good if bursted from 100 to 0 in one or two seconds.

Juggernaut. Back barrable protection. Same problems with not activating reliably. Could be a good option if you keep your health up in Corrosive Armor, so this is an emergency parachute when Corrosive is down. Rallying Cry front bar, Juggernaut back bar for example. Only you can say whether that nerfs your damage too much. Maybe not.

fred4

I want to add: If you intend to stand still and block a lot, then heavy armor is your friend, due to it's passives. If you move a lot and dodge roll instead of blocking, then medium and light are your friends. This is really what it comes down to, less so the resistances from those armor types. That said, light armor ends you up with very skewed resistances, e.g. very little physical resistance. I wouldn't run around in 7 light, but I have been known to use 6 on my nightblade and maybe up to 4 on other classes.

If you are a blocking / tanking DK, there are some other options to consider. Ironblood + Sea Serpent's Coil has been suggested, however that was before ZOS announced Ironblood will be changed / nerfed. I've also tried Ironblood purely on the back bar and was not happy with the proc chance.

You could possibly build your DK as a pure tank with high block mitigation and low cost. The issue there is that tanking doesn't really get you anywhere, other than in certain BG modes maybe. It's something to, however, bear in mind. Blocking is a DK strength. I couldn't really advise on specifics, since I don't play those kind of builds.

The other consideration is vampire and Mist Form. It's the PvP escape mechanic for classes that otherwise don't have any. Can't give you advice on specifics for that either, but if that would be up your street, you now know to look out for that. Whether vamp is a good idea in general right now is debatable, though. DK Whip kills vamps.

fred4

Before all of this Oakensoul debacle, there was one DK back bar set worth mentioning: Daedric Trickery. The set that gives you buffs, all useful to DK, especially the Heroism.

I also agree on Wretched Vitality back bars. Perhaps more so for stam / hybrid DK, but if you're looking for a dodge rolling mag DK, like the guy in the video, that's another way to cover both sustains.

Sleeping_OwI

fred4 wrote: »

Before all of this Oakensoul debacle, there was one DK back bar set worth mentioning: Daedric Trickery. The set that gives you buffs, all useful to DK, especially the Heroism.

I also agree on Wretched Vitality back bars. Perhaps more so for stam / hybrid DK, but if you're looking for a dodge rolling mag DK, like the guy in the video, that's another way to cover both sustains.

Isnt this set useless on backbar? Since I wont be on back bar most of them time and it wont get procced

DaisyRay

Oh! I didn't know impen was nerfed. I'm still learning about pvp myself and everyone is always saying impen works best so I've always added a little to my builds. I don't put it on every piece, but usually the chest and legs. I also add two well-fitted and a little divines. I didn't watch the video so I'm not sure what was said, I was just giving stuff based on what I learned from others in my time here.

DaisyRay

Infused is also a good trait, I use that to buff my jewelry enchants.

fred4

Sleeping_OwI wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Before all of this Oakensoul debacle, there was one DK back bar set worth mentioning: Daedric Trickery. The set that gives you buffs, all useful to DK, especially the Heroism.

I also agree on Wretched Vitality back bars. Perhaps more so for stam / hybrid DK, but if you're looking for a dodge rolling mag DK, like the guy in the video, that's another way to cover both sustains.

Isnt this set useless on backbar? Since I wont be on back bar most of them time and it wont get procced

Both parts of Vitality activate reliably from Race Against Time. If you're not using that, you have to pay attention to your build. For example having your armor skill (Hardened / Volatile Armor) on the back bar - Major Resolve - and slotting an Earthen Heart Skill such as Igneous Shield there - Minor Brutality from passive - would also proc both parts of Wretched Vitality.

I assume you're talking about Daedric Trickery. Aside from the fact that everyone and their mother's DK has been running this in PvP on the back bar for a long time, let me explain how it procs. The first thing to note is the generous proc condition. It procs from any damage you do. Not direct damage (according to the wording), not any specific damage type. DK is the DOT class. If you have a DOT running on someone, the set procs just from you swapping to the back bar. If you use Flames of Oblivion you will sometimes hit people, while on your back bar. If you use poisons, you will hit them. If you use Volatile Armor, you release AOE spikes that will hit them. If melee attackers do damage to you with that skill up, you will hit them. If you hit them with your back bar weapon to activate the back bar enchant, you ... will ... hit ... them. These are not percentage chances we're talking about. Those are guaranteed activations of the set, when it's not on cooldown.

Let's talk about that cooldown, shall we. This set wasn't popular until we got the cooldowns we have now. 21 seconds buff duration with a 9 second cooldown means you will usually have 2 of those buffs up at any one time, sometimes 3.

I don't know what gave you the impression you will rarely be on your back bar. In PvP you bar swap a lot. You need to keep your buffs up. You probably have at least one heal on the back bar that you will be using more frequently than every 9 seconds. You will be forced into defense at times. Some people spend 90% of time on their back bar, e.g. 1vXers. They are only looking for that one combo opportunity to insta-kill some people occasionally. This will vary a lot depending on circumstances, but it is fair to say that 9 seconds and 21 seconds are both long times. You will be on your back bar frequently enough to activate 2 concurrent buffs most of the time.

I'm not saying Daedric Trickery is the only option. I'm personally just as fond of Vitality, if not more, while Rallying Cry is equally viable as back bar or front bar set, depending on how your healing is set up. Also, don't expect miracles. At the end of the day your best defense is movement, line of sight, experience and situational awareness. In terms of sets you're kind of just looking for whatever is stat-dense (provides more stats / valuable stuff than other sets). For example people like Markyn's Ring of Majesty and Magma Incarnate simply because of the amount of useful stats they give for a one and two piece, not because they have an exact target for those stats. They may then call it a day on the defense front and either go full attack mode, with something like a damage set front bar, maybe Plaguebreak, and a damage set back bar, such as Clever Alchemist. Alternatively they may go more for a sustain route, such as Wretched Vitality back bar, or more mixed utility (including defense) with Rallying Cry. A set like Rallying Cry - it doesn't really matter what it gives you. The reason it's popular is that it gives you defense, damage, can be single-barred, includes group utility and has a decent proc condition. It simply gives you a lot of roughly the right things, more than you could get any other way. It's particularly useful right now to counter the Major Force from everyone's Oakensoul and the arrival of Order's Wrath. That will fade a bit, next patch, but it will still be a good set.