I am DONE helping noobs; toxicity is why.

Bat

I had a guildie (<CP505) calling for a healer to join a run of veteran Hel Ra Citadel this evening, I was on my templar healer and noticed they didn't get a reply for a while, so I said I'll join.

We went in and it soon turned out that the tank (<CP410) was going to solo tank it. Sure, I thought to myself, this will be a challenge but it will be in good fun with a guildie who wanted help and I'll give anyone who needs stuff the stuff I find because I've filled most of my stickerbook from there by now anyway.

We kill the air atro, a few people die from standing inside the spin AOE, nothing big. Solo tank decides he wants to go to top, every other experienced player tells them they should go on lower instead, it takes a minute and then finally tank goes to lower. Fine, I'm thinking, this is all in good fun and I'll just chalk this insistence on making this more complicated than necessary up to inexperience. This is where general noobiness of the team starts to reveal itself - we enter top and kill the first few trash enemies, I go open the bridge and make my way up to the top of stairs to prepare for the stack that follows; group instead decides on staying behind at the bridge and I try getting their attention in the chat to come join me, as is tradition to bring the trash together at the top of the stairs. They proceed to kill the small trash pack on the bridge and then join me. Killing the gargoyles takes about 4 minutes. Which, fine, I'm thinking, this group damage is low but it's not like this trial has any DPS check, so we'll be fine, they've done fine so far.

We come to Yokeda Kai and kill the remaining trash, it takes a few minutes. I start the boss up and group starts damaging. Kai splits and the splits start doing their flameshaping thing. I notice only one other player up here understands how to bash enemies. Fine, I'm thinking, this is all in good fun and I'm helping a guildie get some gear they need. I proceed to help out with the interrupting of splits and main boss. The boss takes well over 10 minutes to finish, lower group is already finished almost 5 minutes before we are clear on top.

We come to the last trash/gargoyle/flameshapers/banner bearers fight before the Warrior. Solo tank goes up to aggro the entire thing without pulling taunts on important enemies, and proceeds to run up to the top of the stairs before the exit door - people start dying on the floor because stuff is not taunted. Tank comes down to the bottom of stairs and grabs a taunt of a few things, which was helpful. At this point no one but I am interrupting the flameshapers. We finish the trash fight and proceed to the loot area behind the door.

We're not done looting chests before solo tank pulls the taunt on the Warrior. Five of us are still around the door area after running the chest/HS circle and coming back to the other side of the water. I quickly put some HOTs down on the group that started the fight, knowing well that it might be difficult for me to survive this since there wasn't any ready check initiated for this fight, I would have slotted Harness Magicka for it.

This noob tank dances the Warrior around in a circle at the elevated platform. Sweep attacks kill numerous DDs because the tank doesn't know to face the Warrior to only one side and hold it still. Well crap, I'm thinking. This will go to all heck. I sweat out the most HPS my fingers can manage. We do fine even though it's entirely chaotic.

Until starfall.

People start stacking on each other and dying left and right. People come up to me and kill me, probably thinking being close to a healer will be helpful.

I get resurrected, but player keeps standing on top of me during starfall. I see other healer struggling to move away from people as they all seem to panic around in fear of what's happening. I try getting up even though I know that I will likely die because this other player stands on me. I have to get up to help keep people alive. I get up, and die shortly after because the damage coming in is too already too heavy on top of being resurrected and having to move away from the player who keeps standing where I have to get up.

I say to the group to res all after the starfall is over. I res a person, no one else goes for a res. People are dead all over the floor. Starfall comes again.

Well heck, I'm thinking, this is going to end in disaster now that we have starfall again and people are dead all over the place. A player comes up and stacks on me and kills us both. Another player resurrects me, and this player also somehow remains put on top of me. I have to get up because we're about to wipe if I don't I get up. Now I panic. I get up and try to get a healing springs in, of course, dead as soon as I do.

I'm once again resurrected but decide to stay down until starfall ends, because I've learned to not trust these other players by now.

When I get up I immediately tell people again to "res all".

All of a sudden I am kicked from the group. The Warrior has about 5 percent left to die.

Then in short succession I receive these hate whispers from the noob guildie I'd decided to help out.

"
: trash
: good thing u elft ape
: perma [snip] dead healer
: lmao"

This really was the last straw. I won't ever help a casual or noob out again, ever. Rant over lol.

[Edited for Censor Bypass]

Casul

About to get hate for this, but, I rarely get yelled at by Vets who know what they are doing. You know who does yell at me? The beginning who is way in over their head and refuses any advice.

People seem to forget it isn't just their own time they are wasting, there are 11 other people being affected to.

I get that everyone knows what they are doing and doesn't need help, but the truth is we all suck at one point and getting help was how you improve.

Kisakee

Report him to your guild lead and explain the situation, either they will take action or the guild isn't worth having you.

redspecter23

Kisakee wrote: »

Report him to your guild lead and explain the situation, either they will take action or the guild isn't worth having you.

That's a fair option assuming the whispers were from a guildmate. If they were, report that player to the GM and refer them to this thread. I agree that if the GM chooses to just let it slide, you probably don't want to be in that guild. What would be the point?

mocap

or you can relax and don't take it serious ) You're not the first person to be in such situation. And obviously you won't be the last.

redspecter23

mocap wrote: »

or you can relax and don't take it serious ) You're not the first person to be in such situation. And obviously you won't be the last.

That's also an option. My take is that a player or maybe multiple players are calling them out for poor play and possibly spreading that around their playgroup or potentially the entire guild. If it were me, I'd want a chance to tell my side of the story, which is what we're reading here. At least get that info into the hands of the guild master so you know you've been heard. You don't want to be known as a trash healer when it's absolutely not true. A good reputation means a lot.

Grandchamp1989

From what I read the whispers and kick sounds quite excessive (IMO).
Sry you had to experience that.

Sarannah

Do not give up on all players, simply because one gave you a bad experience. Most new players are truly thankful for any help you give them!

Mascen

Yeah see dont give up on people just because of one bad apple, take this as a learning experience. Next time another noob asks for help, just make it explicitly clear that your help means following your rules and if they dont follow them to a T you're gone.

Holycannoli

This thread reminds me why I don't like running dungeons and most group content, with the mechanics you have to deal with and toxic players yelling at each other.

JustAGoodPlayer

It is a lot of different situation in all games. I have a lot of such storys.

Dragkiris

Unfortunately most "bad" players that are trying to do the harder content (not that vCrags are hard) act this way. They get offended you when offer suggestions on how they do mechs and how to pull their own weight.

FluffWit

Idk.... from what I'm reading the trial group beat the trial without a wipe and the crown got so sick of you telling everyone what to do they went to the effort (and risk) of going into the group list at the most dangerous point in the entire trial to kick the healer.

That's a pretty extreme thing to do bit I have to wonder- where you attempting to take over in voice chat? Or text chat?

Because it really doesn't sound like you just kept quiet, did your job and let the crown run things. If you had done I cant imagine they would have felt the need to kick you or send you hate mail.

I'm sorry if I'm wrong. But I've been in plenty of trials where the guy we barely knew that we picked up because we were short a man decided they knew everything better then us and tried to take over.

Vulkunne

Bat wrote: »

I had a guildie (<CP505) calling for a healer to join a run of veteran Hel Ra Citadel this evening, I was on my templar healer and noticed they didn't get a reply for a while, so I said I'll join.

We went in and it soon turned out that the tank (<CP410) was going to solo tank it. Sure, I thought to myself, this will be a challenge but it will be in good fun with a guildie who wanted help and I'll give anyone who needs stuff the stuff I find because I've filled most of my stickerbook from there by now anyway.

We kill the air atro, a few people die from standing inside the spin AOE, nothing big. Solo tank decides he wants to go to top, every other experienced player tells them they should go on lower instead, it takes a minute and then finally tank goes to lower. Fine, I'm thinking, this is all in good fun and I'll just chalk this insistence on making this more complicated than necessary up to inexperience. This is where general noobiness of the team starts to reveal itself - we enter top and kill the first few trash enemies, I go open the bridge and make my way up to the top of stairs to prepare for the stack that follows; group instead decides on staying behind at the bridge and I try getting their attention in the chat to come join me, as is tradition to bring the trash together at the top of the stairs. They proceed to kill the small trash pack on the bridge and then join me. Killing the gargoyles takes about 4 minutes. Which, fine, I'm thinking, this group damage is low but it's not like this trial has any DPS check, so we'll be fine, they've done fine so far.

We come to Yokeda Kai and kill the remaining trash, it takes a few minutes. I start the boss up and group starts damaging. Kai splits and the splits start doing their flameshaping thing. I notice only one other player up here understands how to bash enemies. Fine, I'm thinking, this is all in good fun and I'm helping a guildie get some gear they need. I proceed to help out with the interrupting of splits and main boss. The boss takes well over 10 minutes to finish, lower group is already finished almost 5 minutes before we are clear on top.

We come to the last trash/gargoyle/flameshapers/banner bearers fight before the Warrior. Solo tank goes up to aggro the entire thing without pulling taunts on important enemies, and proceeds to run up to the top of the stairs before the exit door - people start dying on the floor because stuff is not taunted. Tank comes down to the bottom of stairs and grabs a taunt of a few things, which was helpful. At this point no one but I am interrupting the flameshapers. We finish the trash fight and proceed to the loot area behind the door.

We're not done looting chests before solo tank pulls the taunt on the Warrior. Five of us are still around the door area after running the chest/HS circle and coming back to the other side of the water. I quickly put some HOTs down on the group that started the fight, knowing well that it might be difficult for me to survive this since there wasn't any ready check initiated for this fight, I would have slotted Harness Magicka for it.

This noob tank dances the Warrior around in a circle at the elevated platform. Sweep attacks kill numerous DDs because the tank doesn't know to face the Warrior to only one side and hold it still. Well crap, I'm thinking. This will go to all heck. I sweat out the most HPS my fingers can manage. We do fine even though it's entirely chaotic.

Until starfall.

People start stacking on each other and dying left and right. People come up to me and kill me, probably thinking being close to a healer will be helpful.

I get resurrected, but player keeps standing on top of me during starfall. I see other healer struggling to move away from people as they all seem to panic around in fear of what's happening. I try getting up even though I know that I will likely die because this other player stands on me. I have to get up to help keep people alive. I get up, and die shortly after because the damage coming in is too already too heavy on top of being resurrected and having to move away from the player who keeps standing where I have to get up.

I say to the group to res all after the starfall is over. I res a person, no one else goes for a res. People are dead all over the floor. Starfall comes again.

Well heck, I'm thinking, this is going to end in disaster now that we have starfall again and people are dead all over the place. A player comes up and stacks on me and kills us both. Another player resurrects me, and this player also somehow remains put on top of me. I have to get up because we're about to wipe if I don't I get up. Now I panic. I get up and try to get a healing springs in, of course, dead as soon as I do.

I'm once again resurrected but decide to stay down until starfall ends, because I've learned to not trust these other players by now.

When I get up I immediately tell people again to "res all".

All of a sudden I am kicked from the group. The Warrior has about 5 percent left to die.

Then in short succession I receive these hate whispers from the noob guildie I'd decided to help out.

"
: trash
: good thing u elft ape
: perma [snip] dead healer
: lmao"

This really was the last straw. I won't ever help a casual or noob out again, ever. Rant over lol.

[Edited for Censor Bypass]

Welcome to the club brother/sister. Please pull up a chair with the rest of us who've also had enough and rest easy.

Its interesting you mention that Trial because I had a similar experience once (though not quite the same) which ended up with me, being new to the guild at the time, getting blamed exclusively for the group's grievances even though uh.. nothing was explained to us and there was no communication from the Team lead.

People can't follow if you don't tell them the plan and unfort this was one reason I stopped running the larger Trials completely because of the constant abuse as well as folks screwing around instead of working as a Team. Also note that 4 man runs did not really have this problem at the time so it was still possible to have an enjoyable group experience.

JustAGoodPlayer

Yes in other point of view if it is not random group but some group with RL - other players must not interfear - if group has RL it is all on his responsability.

xaraan

BuildMan wrote: »

About to get hate for this, but, I rarely get yelled at by Vets who know what they are doing. You know who does yell at me? The beginning who is way in over their head and refuses any advice.

People seem to forget it isn't just their own time they are wasting, there are 11 other people being affected to.

I get that everyone knows what they are doing and doesn't need help, but the truth is we all suck at one point and getting help was how you improve.

No hate from me.

I've hardly ever gotten toxic crap from vets - at most it's been average players that think they are hot stuff. But more often than not, most of the toxicity is from newer players.

JustAGoodPlayer

xaraan wrote: »

BuildMan wrote: »

About to get hate for this, but, I rarely get yelled at by Vets who know what they are doing. You know who does yell at me? The beginning who is way in over their head and refuses any advice.

People seem to forget it isn't just their own time they are wasting, there are 11 other people being affected to.

I get that everyone knows what they are doing and doesn't need help, but the truth is we all suck at one point and getting help was how you improve.

No hate from me.

I've hardly ever gotten toxic crap from vets - at most it's been average players that think they are hot stuff. But more often than not, most of the toxicity is from newer players.

I think it depends from many factors.

Ratzkifal

Mascen wrote: »

Yeah see dont give up on people just because of one bad apple, take this as a learning experience. Next time another noob asks for help, just make it explicitly clear that your help means following your rules and if they dont follow them to a T you're gone.

Then you'll get called a gatekeeping elitist instead.

JustAGoodPlayer

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Mascen wrote: »

Yeah see dont give up on people just because of one bad apple, take this as a learning experience. Next time another noob asks for help, just make it explicitly clear that your help means following your rules and if they dont follow them to a T you're gone.

Then you'll get called a gatekeeping elitist instead.

I newer was named "eletist" for 6 years by the way )))

francesinhalover

it's also bad? i guess, when you get really nicee friendly beginners*, and you just can't bring yourself to kick them, so you leave the trial instead.

WinterHeart626

Well there’s a number of factors that went wrong in that trial, even I can see that as a “newer player” (7 months play).
Stacking on the healer doesn’t increase heals.
A tank doing ballet with a boss doesn’t keep the boss tagged down.
Clustering during starfall… were they even blocking during that…..
The warrior is one of the most straightforward bosses there is.
Personally I would have left the trial, and I’m a DD……
If there’s not enough heals coming through because too much damage from the boss is overwhelming the DDs, then some of the DDs SHOULD use their brains, and slot resounding vigour, it cuts one skill sure, but it certainly eases the load on a healer, if it’s a flex spot, so much the better. Healer is there to keep tank alive so the tank can keep the boss off the DDs, DDs responsibility is do damage and don’t die, if you get heals from the healer, then you’re in a good spot, but for the love of all that’s holy, don’t stack on the healer…..

El_Borracho

Sounds like you need to find a new guild, not give up on noobs.

JustAGoodPlayer

WinterHeart626 wrote: »

Well there’s a number of factors that went wrong in that trial, even I can see that as a “newer player” (7 months play).
Stacking on the healer doesn’t increase heals.
A tank doing ballet with a boss doesn’t keep the boss tagged down.
Clustering during starfall… were they even blocking during that…..
The warrior is one of the most straightforward bosses there is.
Personally I would have left the trial, and I’m a DD……
If there’s not enough heals coming through because too much damage from the boss is overwhelming the DDs, then some of the DDs SHOULD use their brains, and slot resounding vigour, it cuts one skill sure, but it certainly eases the load on a healer, if it’s a flex spot, so much the better. Healer is there to keep tank alive so the tank can keep the boss off the DDs, DDs responsibility is do damage and don’t die, if you get heals from the healer, then you’re in a good spot, but for the love of all that’s holy, don’t stack on the healer…..

May be he just give so many advices that they decide to wipe him on purpose

You newer know what is in groups players minds

WinterHeart626

JustAGoodPlayer wrote: »

WinterHeart626 wrote: »

Well there’s a number of factors that went wrong in that trial, even I can see that as a “newer player” (7 months play).
Stacking on the healer doesn’t increase heals.
A tank doing ballet with a boss doesn’t keep the boss tagged down.
Clustering during starfall… were they even blocking during that…..
The warrior is one of the most straightforward bosses there is.
Personally I would have left the trial, and I’m a DD……
If there’s not enough heals coming through because too much damage from the boss is overwhelming the DDs, then some of the DDs SHOULD use their brains, and slot resounding vigour, it cuts one skill sure, but it certainly eases the load on a healer, if it’s a flex spot, so much the better. Healer is there to keep tank alive so the tank can keep the boss off the DDs, DDs responsibility is do damage and don’t die, if you get heals from the healer, then you’re in a good spot, but for the love of all that’s holy, don’t stack on the healer…..

May be he just give so many advices that they decide to wipe him on purpose

You newer know what is in groups players minds

Can’t argue with that, but heaven help them if they go into SO with that attitude lol. They don’t call it “troll trauma” for nothing 😂

JustAGoodPlayer

Once a healer ask PL on vHOF last boss and desband the group ... so it is unfortunate that it is no PK in this game )))

So there are a lot of different and strange people.

kargen27

I've only had one bad experience in that trial and you did get farther than I did. I was healing and like your group nobody was bashing. I bashed as best I could but ran out of stamina. Soon found myself to be the only one alive up top. Someone typed just die and we will skip. Instead I managed to get a couple of people rezzed and kept them alive while they rezzed others. Then I was kicked.
I've been in groups that couldn't finish sometimes even in normal but I don't mind that if they are trying. Sometimes healing a disaster is a fun diversion from having smooth runs all the time.

Bat

FluffWit wrote: »

Idk.... from what I'm reading the trial group beat the trial without a wipe and the crown got so sick of you telling everyone what to do they went to the effort (and risk) of going into the group list at the most dangerous point in the entire trial to kick the healer.

That's a pretty extreme thing to do bit I have to wonder- where you attempting to take over in voice chat? Or text chat?

Because it really doesn't sound like you just kept quiet, did your job and let the crown run things. If you had done I cant imagine they would have felt the need to kick you or send you hate mail.

I'm sorry if I'm wrong. But I've been in plenty of trials where the guy we barely knew that we picked up because we were short a man decided they knew everything better then us and tried to take over.

What are you even talking about? I told people what to do - eventually - because they clearly had no idea what to do. I kept quiet until starfall but could not keep quiet when I saw we were close to wiping because the DDs who weren't dead just kept hitting the boss and left a bunch of people dead on the floor in between starfalls. I don't know where in what I wrote you could infer any of what you did here. I literally said to the group to get resurrections going if they noticed people dead. Shouldn't even have to be said but there we were, two healers sticking out through a bunch of really low damage and general mechs unawareness in an effort to get some people the gear they wanted. And they kicked me during a pivotal moment where they could have used the healing instead of getting salty someone told them about a very basic concept about raiding. We didn't wipe a single time leading up to that and the toxic player who hate whispered to me also made sure to taunt me about how they "cleared so much easier without me" - that's when me and the other healer had already kept that whole fight going up until very close to the end.

And mind you, I should also point out again that the final fight was just initiated on without any ready check or even making sure people were ready -while people were still looting chests around the door - we literally carried this group through this content and I received hate for it because the group went in woefully unprepared - I'm sorry but why are you assuming any of what you're assuming?

Riptide

I love helping folks, it is the most fun in any game.

But I’ve grown selective about who I help, for my own sanity, and how. My requirements are that they be cool (nice), on voice, and I’m either crown or someone more solid than I is. And I have a firm hand from start to finish. Gentle but firm.

I am a warm guy, or at least, thats the wolf I try to feed - but ambiguity and confusion doesn’t help them. Being in a position to have to assume command midstream can often make a soup sandwich worse in several ways.

I’d far prefer to not have to lead anything, its draining, but its the upfront dynamic I choose to be in to help new people from. You can’t effectively teach class from the cheap seats with the students, you have to sigh, get up, and walk to the front of the class to direct it.

And you cannot expect a new player to be able to lead effectively. Sure, there are exceptions to that rule - but even if they are a natural leader they will get stuck in ruts where their ignorance of the content or whatever will have them set up for failure. Let alone someone who is a poor leader as well as ignorant of the mechanics to boot.

So I generally pass on stuff already in progress. If they make it through, great. If they don’t, I’ll wait a bit and often then offer to schedule a trial or dungeon or whatever on my terms. If that seems harsh, well, maybe, but my success rate is very high.

Carcamongus

From OP's description, the group apparently did not even know the basics of group content dynamics: DPS are in charge of getting dead people back up, tanks and healers must be rezzed first and the tank is always the one to start fights, but only when it's clear everybody's ready. Ah, yes, and don't stand in stupid.

Also from OP's description, it seemed clear from the early stages this would be a disaster and I'm surprised they actually finished the trial. Starting a fight while people are looting chests, especially in the Warrior's case, in which it should be well known the chests disappear after combat begins, is either a sign of rudeness, ignorance of how the trial works or both.

I agree that this should be reported to the guild. I also agree this awful experience doesn't mean all inexperienced players aren't worth your time. Many are indeed eager to learn and appreciate the opportunity to do so. You can easily figure out if the people you're with are cool like that and, if not, just leave group.

theoriginalpickle

HRC is one of my favourite trials and prolly the only one i know the mechs fully on (filthy casual that i am i know), very sad that idiots ruined helping newbies though.

But i'm the same i refuse to craft for anyone anymore when newbies get angry and cant tell me exactly what they want or that they cant afford the mats to cover the craft. Had a gold hundings/juliano set request yesterday and i laughed at them.

jtm1018

If team keeps dying the same way over and over and again and again, I always ask, you guys know the mech in here right? If they dont, I just chat them with the mech.