Changes. That's just the way it is.

Valion

Dear fellow players,

let me start this little verbal embrace in words with a quote I heartly think of as being correct:
“Always with you what cannot be done. Hear you nothing that I say?
You must unlearn what you have learned.
Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try.”
(- Yoda. Of course.)

From a rather unbiased perspective, one might actually point out that the upcoming changes are not even that big of a deal.
(I am pretty sure this will cover future updates to ESO as well as it would have suited the same disturbances every now and then ever since 2014.)

99% of the game will be totally untouched, and even the combat will still be pretty much the same.
So what's the big deal to begin with?
Change.
The feeling something is "taken" from them entitles many to feel irritated.
But instead of feeling provoked to rise above and still k*ck ass in the near future, they give in to frustration.
And since not that much is taken - the facts are in the numbers - some people now cry out for the beginners.
Their interests are now the focus of the "defense strategy" of many Veterans who are looking for stressable contentions.
(Amazingly, the care bears I know do not go down in tears these days, but reflect on what will change. Explanations in combat routines will get easier, I can tell you that much.)
Defending the late arrivals -
I call that an evasive maneuver.

If anything, the increase of the durabilities of DoTs is beginner friendly, and so is the flattening of the curve regarding the influence weaving has.
Yes, less different button clicking, more of the same. Again - not really a big deal.

Mates, please, relax for a moment.
It is just a change, not ESO's very own NGE.
Maybe even grasp the idea that a change involving all playing the game in pretty much the same way might bring new challenges.
Up to the evolvement on the rather personal side:
Endless growth, in the end, is always toxic, and sometimes, adaption is neccessary.

Sure, you can stomp your feet and cancel your subscription - or even stop playing the game.
But then, you'll probably end up being one of those migrating birds that cherishes in the ever returning cycle of chagrin.
Try this game, stop in there, try that one. Always the same pattern - since the continuity might be you not accepting changes when due.

Some feel strong by now, adding the latest meta set upon meta set each patch. Adjusting their rotation if a skill or a passive changes.
Their output numbers grow, metrics and logs read pleasant, and the content seems easier.
You got stronger by basically doing the same over and over again, and that is a great feeling of advancement.
Of accomplishment, even.
These folks stand like oaks!
But now that a new storm is on the horizon,
the willow might actually be the capable tree to keep the forest intact, so to say...

Being strong and comfortable in ones superior, save position is great.
But that is not the sole meaning of the "survival of the fittest":
It's adaptiveness.
Emotionally, tactically, personally.

I see a chance to grow in this patch.
Again.
I, too, miss some of the comfortable things that used to be in game, and I, too, do not like the thought of change as per se.
But I admire the progress, and I like the wild ride Zenimax has taken us on to throughout these last years.

Be smart - ride the waves instead of fighting the tide.

Zodiarkslayer

2Pac 4Life 😂

Snamyap

There are changes for the better, and there are changes for the worst. One of those two you do not have to accept like a sheep.
These changes are not some sort of natural rule, nor are they decided by some democratic decision, they are made by people we pay to provide a fun pastime. If they fail at doing so we have every right to speak up.

beer781993

Sounds like you have not much of a clue when it comes to endgame content.
Some trifectas are not possible anymore because of the low damage. Even if they nerf the trials, it will be plain and boring because if all dots are 20 seconds you press your spam able for more than 10 seconds.
1 Button for over 10 seconds ---> booooring ---> bad game design.

In fights where the enemies move, you don't even use your dots anymore. They tick every 2 seconds so it's a damage loss if you don't use your spamable which means you press only 1 button in mobile fights.

1 Button rotations are plain and boring.
There will be no riding the wave, there will be hate non stop if this changes make it through.

You want to progress a trifecta in a trial?
How? Constant changes make the whole group refarm their items and change their playstyle. The result = your prog starts at 0 again 🤬

merpins

Y'know, I think you're right. Everything happens for a reason and the game isn't gonna change too much.
It's an ever changing game after all. Next quarter will have new changes, the quarter after that will have new changes... It's not all doom and gloom. Nerfs are nerfs, but we can still all do damage.

PVE, PVP, we're all in this and the game will continue to function. PVP players will continue making builds, ganking in some cases, ball groups in others. PVE players will continue to strive for better and better parses, and will continue pushing builds to the limit of the game, even in its current state. And hey, the PTS might change. But if it doesn't, oh well. We can continue on this journey though this game regardless.

We can continue, or we can quit. In my opinion, continuing is better, because the game is fun, after all. You know what they say. The years start coming, and the don't stop coming. Fed to the rules, you gotta hit the ground running. It doesn't make sense not to live for fun! Your brain gets smart but your head gets dumb. So much to do, so much to see, so what's wrong with taking the backstreets? You'll never know if you don't go. You'll never shine if you don't glow. Hey now, you're an all star, get your game on, go play. -Smash Mouth.

Anyway, as you can assume I was being sarcastic. I hate the changes and don't like where the game is headed, and think ZoS should rethink what they're doing because 80% of the playerbase agrees, and they're going to see a mass exodus and a large increase in toxicity in their game if they go through with it.

Kusto

Totally agree with OP. People are just overreacting and don't like changes.
I know, the trifectas, bla bla bla. Everyone here keeps bringing them up. Its like you all doing them. It's not even 0.1% of playerbase, more like 0.01 or 0.001% who's actually capable. Sure they will get shafted now and may not be able to do it but they're such a small % of players. For the rest not much is going to change. You will be still able to do the same content as currently on live.

beer781993

Kusto wrote: »

Totally agree with OP. People are just overreacting and don't like changes.
I know, the trifectas, bla bla bla. Everyone here keeps bringing them up. Its like you all doing them. It's not even 0.1% of playerbase, more like 0.01 or 0.001% who's actually capable. Sure they will get shafted now and may not be able to do it but they're such a small % of players. For the rest not much is going to change. You will be still able to do the same content as currently on live.

Did you actually play on pts? Most casuals can't kill world bosses anymore. Have you tried vateshran or maelstrom? If you hit 30k now you will be hitting maybe 18k?

They nerf everyone. The difference is people that hit 100k will be able to do everything but vrg, vdsr trifectas. Casuals are the ones suffering 🤣

Sjestenka

Dagonists. Figures!

shadyjane62

Games have a life cycle. Been here 8 years and I cannot tell you how much I want to ignore you.

Valion

FluffWit wrote: »

[snip]

I am unsure how to react properly. I surely don't want to be arrogant, nor do I see myself as being better or standing higher than all those people infuriated by the upcoming patch. And maybe it's even lost in translation - since as you probably already guessed, English is not my mother tongue.

But that solid foundation - or better, the reason why I dropped these lines, can easily be found in the endless rage posts, the rants, the "threats" to end playing or supporting the game.
I don't want people to quit!
I don't want people to unsubscribe!
But: I also don't want people to enflame a [snip] towards a team of committed developers and Zenimax.
I do oppose that mentality.

I think it is better to adapt to changes due than to stay aggressive and irrational about such matters.
That's all I wanted to invite others to.
Not "above", but "beyond" the small scale irritation and heartfelt, yet unnecessary frustration.

[snip]
[edited for baiting, profanity bypass & to remove quote]

Kisakee

While i welcome the changes to DOT durations (not the damage nerf though) and being able to use my spamable more often as i'm used to this playstyle for years thanks to other games my girl is the exact opposite, she loves to rotate her skills without ever spaming anything. Whatever happens, you'll never be able to satisfy everyone.

We've been asked to have trust in these changes and that here's more coming down the road. I for one like changes when they open more possibilities for myself and currently that's the case but who knows what will come after. U35 is just the first step and things might change drastically, just don't get too hot about what we know now. Or like we say in Germany: "You never eat the food as hot as it is cooked."

endgamesmug

I too thought my pve life was over after Horrowind.

Eldartar

Valion wrote: »

Dear fellow players,

let me start this little verbal embrace in words with a quote I heartly think of as being correct:
“Always with you what cannot be done. Hear you nothing that I say?
You must unlearn what you have learned.
Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try.”
(- Yoda. Of course.)

From a rather unbiased perspective, one might actually point out that the upcoming changes are not even that big of a deal.
(I am pretty sure this will cover future updates to ESO as well as it would have suited the same disturbances every now and then ever since 2014.)

99% of the game will be totally untouched, and even the combat will still be pretty much the same.
So what's the big deal to begin with?
Change.
The feeling something is "taken" from them entitles many to feel irritated.
But instead of feeling provoked to rise above and still k*ck ass in the near future, they give in to frustration.
And since not that much is taken - the facts are in the numbers - some people now cry out for the beginners.
Their interests are now the focus of the "defense strategy" of many Veterans who are looking for stressable contentions.
(Amazingly, the care bears I know do not go down in tears these days, but reflect on what will change. Explanations in combat routines will get easier, I can tell you that much.)
Defending the late arrivals -
I call that an evasive maneuver.

If anything, the increase of the durabilities of DoTs is beginner friendly, and so is the flattening of the curve regarding the influence weaving has.
Yes, less different button clicking, more of the same. Again - not really a big deal.

Mates, please, relax for a moment.
It is just a change, not ESO's very own NGE.
Maybe even grasp the idea that a change involving all playing the game in pretty much the same way might bring new challenges.
Up to the evolvement on the rather personal side:
Endless growth, in the end, is always toxic, and sometimes, adaption is neccessary.

Sure, you can stomp your feet and cancel your subscription - or even stop playing the game.
But then, you'll probably end up being one of those migrating birds that cherishes in the ever returning cycle of chagrin.
Try this game, stop in there, try that one. Always the same pattern - since the continuity might be you not accepting changes when due.

Some feel strong by now, adding the latest meta set upon meta set each patch. Adjusting their rotation if a skill or a passive changes.
Their output numbers grow, metrics and logs read pleasant, and the content seems easier.
You got stronger by basically doing the same over and over again, and that is a great feeling of advancement.
Of accomplishment, even.
These folks stand like oaks!
But now that a new storm is on the horizon,
the willow might actually be the capable tree to keep the forest intact, so to say...

Being strong and comfortable in ones superior, save position is great.
But that is not the sole meaning of the "survival of the fittest":
It's adaptiveness.
Emotionally, tactically, personally.

I see a chance to grow in this patch.
Again.
I, too, miss some of the comfortable things that used to be in game, and I, too, do not like the thought of change as per se.
But I admire the progress, and I like the wild ride Zenimax has taken us on to throughout these last years.

Be smart - ride the waves instead of fighting the tide.

WOW, Just WOW, and you actually believe this? WOW!

Kisakee

Eldartar wrote: »

WOW, Just WOW, and you actually believe this? WOW!

Is it so hard to believe that different people have different opinions?

AcadianPaladin

10000 hours of play time, 7 years in game and +2000 CP have taught me to absolutely believe the following things:
- If I read the initial PTS patch notes they are a 90% reflection of the end result.
- The PTS patch notes are a very accurate tool for assessing how good/bad the patch will be. That is, if they read like a dumpster fire that is exactly what they turn out to be once the final product goes live.
- I have therefore come to dread to varying degrees every single combat update based on experience. The patch notes are a good indicator of how bad it will be and this one will be bad. Really bad.

The end result is a lack of confidence in the game and keeping one's eyes on the horizon for better alternatives.

pklemming

I am loving the way people think this will make it more accessible. So, as a Templar, on PTS, I now have dots that last 26 seconds, 24 seconds, 22 seconds, and 20 seconds, with a 6 second recastable skill, between my spammable.

If I want to use reflective light, then that is 32 seconds.

So, that is handy to line up for new players. Yeah....

Kisakee

pklemming wrote: »

I am loving the way people think this will make it more accessible. So, as a Templar, on PTS, I now have dots that last 26 seconds, 24 seconds, 22 seconds, and 20 seconds, with a 6 second recastable skill, between my spammable.

If I want to use reflective light, then that is 32 seconds.

So, that is handy to line up for new players. Yeah....

It's not called "spamable" for nothing.

merevie

A tidal wave is a change.
Arenas without weaving -also change.
Groups doing hard content still taking new players? Expect change.

Matteo11

I mean its nice fluff to get up here and pontificate about accepting change, but at this point it would be apathy to ignore the harmful impact of these changes.

Those who have actually logged into PTS are pretty unanimous that ESO is about to take a real bad turn.

Jazraena

Some will cry about change irrespective of what it is, sure.

But that doesn't change the issue that this particular set of changes doesn't do what they want it to do and has a very long list of unaddressed side effects undoing months and years of balance passes.

It's an incomplete draft that misses the mark. It will result in people being unable to complete content - not just at the top, but lower down the line as well. It will worsen accessibility. In part, people will adjust to it, certainly, but not everyone can, especially at the lower end. And over the next year while they rework this unfinished mess, it will happen again.

That is why far more people than usual are speaking out. So please, instead of complaining about people complaining, actually bother to check out what is being changed and what effects this will have.

dmnqwk

Valion wrote: »

Dear fellow players,

From a rather unbiased perspective, one might actually point out that the upcoming changes are not even that big of a deal.
(I am pretty sure this will cover future updates to ESO as well as it would have suited the same disturbances every now and then ever since 2014.)

Hello there!

I have experience a few largescale changes in many games, and I actually am a bit concerned over the changes here.

Guild Wars - This game was fantastic! I loved wearing my black/black/pink (you could blend dyes) protection monk gear or my black/pink/pink (yes, they were totally different colours!) healing monk gear or collecting over a dozen bows on my ranger who did everything from thumping, to touch ranger, to degen sniping in alliance battles, trapping, stance tanking etc. They balanced a lot of things... but, sadly, I felt I had to leave because of Searing Flames abuse (how they altered the skill made me want to leave).

WoW - Every time WoW had an expansion they'd completely overhaul the game. I played a bear dps from Burning Crusade through Mists of Panderia, and only stopped playing the game out of being old (I was playing on US servers at the time from Europe, raiding became an issue. Nothing to do with the changes themselves). I remember a lot of doomsaying going on then and things during those years didn't really seem terrible. So, at the heart of it, change isn't the issue.

Swtor - I wasn't really doing MMOs for a while after WoW (though I dabbled a bit here and there with some, like ESO for several months in 2017 or a return to DDO) but last year I played Swtor because of Covid lockdown during 6.0 and loved the raiding there. Then, because of 7.0 changes returning the game to elitism, I decided I didn't want to stay. So here, the change did stop me playing.

DDO - This game had several owners, from Codemasters to Turbine, to Standing Stones Inc. Each one tried to make changes and each time, it became a little less fun and a little more like work (past lives became required for some of the elite content; though I also put together a ToD elite raid by asking in guild 'Hey, anyone wanna do elite ToD because, why not?' and got it done using my AC Rogue Tank with a Quaterstaff on Suulo and a friend tanking Horoth on... his MONK.

Every time change occurs, it's a risk. So the important thing is to consider what the reward might be for taking that risk. I am not as much upset by many things (albeit I am a bit concerned my stamden dps will be mangled because Scorch is being wrecked a bit, being treated as a DoT and NOT as a heavy hitter like Armaments, Grim Focus or Blastbones).
But overall, my biggest fear is the way in which they are treating DoTs.

Since the game focuses on mobs lasting mere seconds in many environments - changing the way DoTs work from being 'worth it if the mob survives 7 seconds' to... 'forget about all dots spam 1 button spam spam spam if they wont live for 12'. That's a serious issue and, forgetting about parses or other things, it will mean combat becomes a lot less interesting. If they tripled the health of every mob in the game (and altered the experience too, maybe added 50% damage to them as well) then perhaps these changes would seem more healthy. But they wont.

So I am really only being concerned from an experience stretching over 25 years of onling gaming across a number of MMOs (I didn't include a few like Rift or Aeon that I didn't get much into) and, while I am prepared to wait... I don't think forgetting the adage

'Those who fail to understand history are doomed to repeat it.'

alanmatillab16_ESO

beer781993 wrote: »

Did you actually play on pts? Most casuals can't kill world bosses anymore. Have you tried vateshran or maelstrom? If you hit 30k now you will be hitting maybe 18k?

They nerf everyone. The difference is people that hit 100k will be able to do everything but vrg, vdsr trifectas. Casuals are the ones suffering 🤣

World bosses are supposed to be group content, they are not supposed to be soloable in the first place never mind soloable by just burning them down with dps. Players might have to find groups in an mmo to kill bosses intended for groups...

You also assume that those players "hitting 30k" are using things like attack weaving in the first place to be so affected by the changes.

Jazraena

alanmatillab16_ESO wrote: »

beer781993 wrote: »

Did you actually play on pts? Most casuals can't kill world bosses anymore. Have you tried vateshran or maelstrom? If you hit 30k now you will be hitting maybe 18k?

They nerf everyone. The difference is people that hit 100k will be able to do everything but vrg, vdsr trifectas. Casuals are the ones suffering 🤣

World bosses are supposed to be group content, they are not supposed to be soloable in the first place never mind soloable by just burning them down with dps. Players might have to find groups in an mmo to kill bosses intended for groups...

You also assume that those players "hitting 30k" are using things like attack weaving in the first place to be so affected by the changes.

Mate, look at the changes. Don't tell me you have. Look at what people critizize. Don't tell me you have.

The Light Attack changes aren't the problem.

alanmatillab16_ESO

Jazraena wrote: »

alanmatillab16_ESO wrote: »

beer781993 wrote: »

Did you actually play on pts? Most casuals can't kill world bosses anymore. Have you tried vateshran or maelstrom? If you hit 30k now you will be hitting maybe 18k?

They nerf everyone. The difference is people that hit 100k will be able to do everything but vrg, vdsr trifectas. Casuals are the ones suffering 🤣

World bosses are supposed to be group content, they are not supposed to be soloable in the first place never mind soloable by just burning them down with dps. Players might have to find groups in an mmo to kill bosses intended for groups...

You also assume that those players "hitting 30k" are using things like attack weaving in the first place to be so affected by the changes.

Mate, look at the changes. Don't tell me you have. Look at what people critizize. Don't tell me you have.

The Light Attack changes aren't the problem.

The changes reduce DPS. Again, how does that make needing a group to do group content even IF that is the outcome a bad thing? Edit to add: This is referring to the example you give of casuals not being able to do overland group content I.E World bosses.

Jazraena

You're confusing me with someone else.

And no, the changes don't just 'reduce DPS'. Again, read up on it. You're missing the point, and this piecemeal attacking does the topic a disservice.

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo

Meanwhile PvP players:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=931I2WbJHXE&ab_channel=2Pac-Topic

Noisivid

The changes are far from insignificant. Personally I'm not too concerned about the Light Attack changes. There are lots of others that are not good & past history shows that what hits the PTS is pretty much what goes live.

There are plenty of other posts that go into the details of why most of the changes in this patch are bad so I'm not going to go into them here.

It's also the fact that the game has been continually "overhauled" since at least the Morrowind chapter and there doesn't seem to be any end in sight. They say "trust us" but past history is usually a good indicator of what's coming in the future. Is it going to take another 2-3 patches to resolve these changes? read that as 6-9 months. And then are they simply going to overhaul everything again? That's the past history.

Like I've said elsewhere; I'm adaptable; I have and can work with pretty much whatever combat system the Devs settle on. But they really need to settle on a standard. For some people it may be time to move on, no need to insult because they say so and say why they are doing so. I may or may not choose to adapt to these changes.

And yes, I've actually tested things out on the PTS . It's playable, but not good. In the same way that the Morrowind chapter changes were 'playable but not good", and not just for the people running absolute end game content


Finally, I'm sure I'm not the only person that finds the original post very condescending. It's like someone trying to "drop some wisdom" on us ignorant, unenlightened people that are speaking out about our dissatisfaction with the latest changes. How dare we do that. (it really seems like you cribbed it from somewhere... Tupac?)

Valion wrote: »

Dear fellow players,

let me start this little verbal embrace in words with a quote I heartly think of as being correct:
“Always with you what cannot be done. Hear you nothing that I say?
You must unlearn what you have learned.
Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try.”
(- Yoda. Of course.)

From a rather unbiased perspective, one might actually point out that the upcoming changes are not even that big of a deal.
(I am pretty sure this will cover future updates to ESO as well as it would have suited the same disturbances every now and then ever since 2014.)

99% of the game will be totally untouched, and even the combat will still be pretty much the same.
So what's the big deal to begin with?
Change.
The feeling something is "taken" from them entitles many to feel irritated.
But instead of feeling provoked to rise above and still k*ck ass in the near future, they give in to frustration.
And since not that much is taken - the facts are in the numbers - some people now cry out for the beginners.
Their interests are now the focus of the "defense strategy" of many Veterans who are looking for stressable contentions.
(Amazingly, the care bears I know do not go down in tears these days, but reflect on what will change. Explanations in combat routines will get easier, I can tell you that much.)
Defending the late arrivals -
I call that an evasive maneuver.

If anything, the increase of the durabilities of DoTs is beginner friendly, and so is the flattening of the curve regarding the influence weaving has.
Yes, less different button clicking, more of the same. Again - not really a big deal.

Mates, please, relax for a moment.
It is just a change, not ESO's very own NGE.
Maybe even grasp the idea that a change involving all playing the game in pretty much the same way might bring new challenges.
Up to the evolvement on the rather personal side:
Endless growth, in the end, is always toxic, and sometimes, adaption is neccessary.

Sure, you can stomp your feet and cancel your subscription - or even stop playing the game.
But then, you'll probably end up being one of those migrating birds that cherishes in the ever returning cycle of chagrin.
Try this game, stop in there, try that one. Always the same pattern - since the continuity might be you not accepting changes when due.

Some feel strong by now, adding the latest meta set upon meta set each patch. Adjusting their rotation if a skill or a passive changes.
Their output numbers grow, metrics and logs read pleasant, and the content seems easier.
You got stronger by basically doing the same over and over again, and that is a great feeling of advancement.
Of accomplishment, even.
These folks stand like oaks!
But now that a new storm is on the horizon,
the willow might actually be the capable tree to keep the forest intact, so to say...

Being strong and comfortable in ones superior, save position is great.
But that is not the sole meaning of the "survival of the fittest":
It's adaptiveness.
Emotionally, tactically, personally.

I see a chance to grow in this patch.
Again.
I, too, miss some of the comfortable things that used to be in game, and I, too, do not like the thought of change as per se.
But I admire the progress, and I like the wild ride Zenimax has taken us on to throughout these last years.

Be smart - ride the waves instead of fighting the tide.

Browiseth

everything can be downplayed (or upplayed?) when you take it out of context, and mince words about some greater goal or meaning to it, it's a very basic manipulation of information

i appreciate you trying to remain a little bit neutral and optimistic with this thread but it's not fair to the people who have tried out the changes on pts by trying to dismiss the community's concerns with language that equates to "chill out" and "it's just a game"

and star wars quotes for some reason

Holycannoli

Change when it's necessary is acceptable.

Change when it's unnecessary, or to justify someone's job, or to chase some metric without regard to any practical considerations is not acceptable.

Is this PTS patch necessary? No. Is it to justify someone's job? Probably no. Is it to chase some metric? Probably yes. This reeks of a decision a bean counter in a suit forces on devs to chase some metric.

Nomadic_Atmoran

Kusto wrote: »

Totally agree with OP. People are just overreacting and don't like changes.
I know, the trifectas, bla bla bla. Everyone here keeps bringing them up. Its like you all doing them. It's not even 0.1% of playerbase, more like 0.01 or 0.001% who's actually capable. Sure they will get shafted now and may not be able to do it but they're such a small % of players. For the rest not much is going to change. You will be still able to do the same content as currently on live.

Its that .01% of the playerbase that knows the game to an extent that not even the devs understand it. Its that .01% that shares that knowledge through build videos, carry services and prog groups. To blatantly shrug off whats happening to the endgame community is to accept the inevitable brain-drain thats going to occur here in the game. Also, even if the Devs seem to have some level of disdain for said group. A lot of the games new sets and mythics are geared towards this group and the mid-tier players that aspire to be apart of that .01%.

It says a lot about a person that because they arent in the group thats being targeted. That they are okay with the mistreatment or the neglect that said group is experiencing.

Didgerion

OP I have a change proposal to really reduce the skill gap, why not locking players in one place while they cast their abilities.
Would you embrace that wave too?

Well that's how this update feels like for a lot of players.