Could a Gap Close Immobilize Skill be the love the Warden Class needs?

Duke_Falcon

I've played Warden since the Morrowind launch because I loved the original game that came out before a lot of current players were even born. I'm a bit older. 8-) I really fell in love with the Warden, but its been nerfed into Oblivion.

The most enjoyment I had playing it was when I ran offensive/front bar Sword and Board. I was able to Sub-Assualt>Cliff Racer>Shield Invasion and it made an effective combo for the class. It was a bit tough to line up as it required 3 seconds to pull off, but the delayed burst damage with a Stun was manageable to pull off in the chaotic nature of pvp, Stunning or Immobilizing with any of the other Warden options are not effective at lining up the Sub-Assualt, with a Cliff Racer being cast at range. A gap close helps line up the Sub-Assualt attack as its easily avoided other wise, and the Stun held my opponent in place for 1 second while they broke free so everything could connect, and ta-da a viable delayed burst combo that worked. Swap bars to execute or repeat as needed.

Giving Warden back penetration on Deep Fissure was definitely a step in the right direction. However I've watched extremely experienced pvp streamers fail time and again on getting that skill to line up with a D-Swing stun, not to mention to play warden in that way you can't cast your Cliff Racer at range, which is the classes spammable dps skill, not D-Swing. So many classes are just build around D-Swing that they lose class identity. They literally become D-Swing builds that the class supports not the other way with D-Swing supporting class skills. I could use Sword and Board again, but its lack of base penetration and damage in comparison to Two Hand or Duel Wield still puts it behind them quiet a bit in damage.

I believe a great idea to revitalize Warden would be to change one of the Natures Grasp morphs to be a Gap Close Immobilze, with some other added benefit to it like a dot with a hot similar to duel wields skill Blood Craze, or Shield Invasion's base damage, something along those lines. A new Warden pvp identity combo could be Sub-Assuat>Cliff Racer>Natures Grasp and it can effectively be used with Duel Wield or Two Hander. 8-)

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO

the whole point is that with all the delayed damage with guaranteed stun is op so they didnt get it in class kit... but they should make the new delayed 1 second stun unblockable, would fit delayed damage landing together theme. or else you just get all the same people crying about ganks complaining about warden burst. gap close stun seems very strong, would probably need to be like fossilized where you cant use it when they are cc immune.

ESO_Nightingale

we just need a class skill with an on-demand stun that isn't awful. arctic blast having a solid burst heal with a dot and stun on it is too much and it being delayed is even more annoying. they should increase it's DoT power and give the stun to something else. i mean, we have a ton of dead skills that could be reworked, or the stun could be added to something.

Duke_Falcon

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

we just need a class skill with an on-demand stun that isn't awful. arctic blast having a solid burst heal with a dot and stun on it is too much and it being delayed is even more annoying. they should increase it's DoT power and give the stun to something else. i mean, we have a ton of dead skills that could be reworked, or the stun could be added to something.

I'd be cool with the stun instead of a immobilize like I was suggesting, but I thought that might be to strong. If the are immobilized at least people could block, but stun would definitely be better. Who knows it might even be necessary.

They could make it super OP like DK, and give it a stun/immobile in one skill. lol

Udrath

Ice clench? Cost like 800 magicka to use

Duke_Falcon

So, just updating in here as I genuinely care about the Warden class as my original main.

Arctic now stuns on cast, which I have to say is a pleasant surprise and much needed as getting delayed burst damage thru skill combinations to hit is impossible without a stun you can directly control.

Honestly to make the Warden toolkit complete I still think one of the "Natures Grasp" morphs should gap close to an enemy with an immobilize, with a hot/dot effect for the target and yourself.

This allows the skill combo of Scorch, into Dive, into proposed "Nature Grasp gap close to an immobilized enemy".

taugrim

Duke_Falcon wrote: »

So, just updating in here as I genuinely care about the Warden class as my original main.

Arctic now stuns on cast, which I have to say is a pleasant surprise and much needed as getting delayed burst damage thru skill combinations to hit is impossible without a stun you can directly control.

Honestly to make the Warden toolkit complete I still think one of the "Natures Grasp" morphs should gap close to an enemy with an immobilize, with a hot/dot effect for the target and yourself.

This allows the skill combo of Scorch, into Dive, into proposed "Nature Grasp gap close to an immobilized enemy".

Nice necroing your own thread.

At the time you proposed it, OK, I get it. Now? LOL no.

If you're still asking for this after the PBAOE stun was implemented for Warden, you're advocating for imbalance.

YandereGirlfriend

Having a gap-closer (it really does not need a CC!) on Nature's Grasp would actually be pretty cool.

And if not that, then SOMETHING needs to be done with them because the two morphs are currently not well-distinguished from each other and, even then, are are just wonky (and weak) to use.

Sad but true that that is also the story for like half of the rest of the Warden kit.

Duke_Falcon

taugrim wrote: »

Duke_Falcon wrote: »

So, just updating in here as I genuinely care about the Warden class as my original main.

Arctic now stuns on cast, which I have to say is a pleasant surprise and much needed as getting delayed burst damage thru skill combinations to hit is impossible without a stun you can directly control.

Honestly to make the Warden toolkit complete I still think one of the "Natures Grasp" morphs should gap close to an enemy with an immobilize, with a hot/dot effect for the target and yourself.

This allows the skill combo of Scorch, into Dive, into proposed "Nature Grasp gap close to an immobilized enemy".

Nice necroing your own thread.

At the time you proposed it, OK, I get it. Now? LOL no.

If you're still asking for this after the PBAOE stun was implemented for Warden, you're advocating for imbalance.

What does "Nice Necroing your own thread" mean? Is that an insult? Feels like an insult. Not so good for constructive conversations.

gamma71

Wardens do not need a gap closer they spend most of there time running around rocks and towers.

Duke_Falcon

Off topic, but an interesting idea for Nature's Grasp is instead of targeting a player, have it target an area. I have 3 Wardens I play and one is a dedicated healer and that skill is very hard bordering on impossible to target players with in large scale combat. I don't know any Warden healers that use it or would say this is a skill on your bar in any healer builds.

OBJnoob

I think I commented on this a long time ago but since this thread is active again I can't resist putting my two cents in one more time.

PvP warden is in a really good spot right now. A gap closer immobilize would be extremely overpowered on warden at the moment.

Hard no from me.

Dem_kitkats1

Why do they need a gap closer? They have Deceptive Predator/Bird of Prey?

Duke_Falcon

Natures Grasp is a gap close, its just impractical and not very effective atm, just brainstorming some ideas to make it better.

Duke_Falcon

Yeah, thanks to the Arctic Blast change they are in a pretty good spot atm.

OBJnoob

The one thing I will say is that bar space is a pretty hot commodity. Warden has a burst heal that is a stun. A snare removal that is added speed and passive damage boost. Their class damage skills heal and build ultimate.

Its possible that this gap closer immobilize wouldn't find room on everyone's bar... And in that sense not be as OP as I think.

Nevertheless my vote is still no. I think what makes warden shine now, much like when they first came out, is their multi-utility skills that save bar space. A light attack triggered HoT that also grants major savagery for yet another example. A delayed burst ability that gives major and minor breach. I just don't think they need yet another, whether they can use them all at once or not.

In fact I'll take it a step further... I think zos has in fact been listening and instead of nerfing classes they are trying to buff other classes. Leading to nightblades that can roll dodge more cheaply for having given themselves major evasion. And DKs that can heal themselves with DoTs. And vigors that give minor resolve.

And honestly I don't much like it. Everything is too strong... Nobody lacks anything... There's no rock paper scissors. There's no downsides or differences to playing anything. And yes we can say "well what about magsorc," but we're mostly just talking about sorcs that refuse to adapt to the times and want for play styles of the past.

Everybody has a burst heal. Everybody has a stun. Everybody has delayed burst. Everybody has a spammable.

I know this is what 99% of people have begged for.... But I kinda hate it.

ESO_Nightingale

in regards to pvp, they're fine now.

kapachia

gamma71 wrote: »

Wardens do not need a gap closer they spend most of there time running around rocks and towers.

Made me chuckle...

kapachia

OBJnoob wrote: »

And yes we can say "well what about magsorc," but we're mostly just talking about sorcs that refuse to adapt to the times and want for play styles of the past.

How do you suggest one build magsorc with current toolkits? I really want to hear from this expert.

How to you change with time when all other classes got skill refresh with buff, but nothing has changed for magsorc toolkits?

Zabulus

Would an autokilltargetinoneshoot be enough for you ? ...

OBJnoob

kapachia wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

And yes we can say "well what about magsorc," but we're mostly just talking about sorcs that refuse to adapt to the times and want for play styles of the past.

How do you suggest one build magsorc with current toolkits? I really want to hear from this expert.

How to you change with time when all other classes got skill refresh with buff, but nothing has changed for magsorc toolkits?

Lol. Well, I was talking out of my bum a little there it was kinda just a rant and the magsorc thing wasn't meant to be a big part of it. I'm just saying that all classes play pretty similarly these days with the exceptions being magsorcs who are the last to get brought up to par and night blades, because going invisible is very unique.

But if I am to defend my statement a little bit...

Stamsorcs do okay, right? So in this hybridized ESO if your magsorc is struggling then just find out what makes stamsorcs good and borrow some of it.

Most of the buff magsorc threads I've read have focused on one thing... Buffing shields and stacking max mag. This is very old school thinking, and is little help for catching magsorc up with the times.

What they should be asking for, as you sorta said, is for the rest of their toolkit to become better. Personally I think making their pets untargetable and unkillable would be one huge step.

If you can't survive with matriarch, vigor, crit surge, radiating regent then I mean I don't know what to tell you. But if your offense suffers as well then I do know what to tell you.... STOP stacking max mag.

A major breach in their toolkit would also be a great fix. And that's it. That's literally all they need.

Luede

u cant hybridized a mag sorc, if u do that u play a stam sorc