Nocturnals Ploy Poll

WreckfulAbandon

Yes, I am biased. We all are. I dont like this set and neither should you.



Will you still PvP if other players can remove Major and Minor buffs at will?

xylena_lazarow

"just run Oakensoul lol"

WreckfulAbandon

Not you too Xylena 😅

Jaraal

Yes, I will become a debuff bot for my Queen!

Jaraal

Just run Daedric Trickery with Jorvald’s, they can’t get’em all.

Udrath

They should buff it to remove equipment

WreckfulAbandon

Udrath wrote: »

They should buff it to remove equipment

Ah, a fellow man of culture 🐸☕

Dem_kitkats1

Y'all were saying healing and tanking were too mindless and game breaking, well here you go. Every 2 seconds though...that might be a bit much and a bit contradictory to ZOS' direction. It's an interesting concept though.

fizzylu

Many people already do not enjoy the constant buffing up in combat. Think about it; some fights can last a long whileeee. Often you already have to buff up in a single fight 2-4 times if not more.... so not only will this make that more annoying and tedious beyond belief, but it's also already a huge resource dump of magicka and stamina. The more stamina and magicka (and time, honestly) a player has to put into buffing up mid fight, the more of a disadvantage they are at. The Oakensoul Ring is also proof of this. NOT having to buff up was, and is, a huge advantage. So for ZOS to announce this set on top of the Oakensoul Ring just.... blows my mind haha like what are they thinking? Are they simply NOT thinking?????

Buffs in this game are WAY too impactful for them to be able to stripped away. Things like major resolve and major sorcery/brutality are pretty much a must at all times.... and a player having to reapply these things EVERY 2 seconds? A player would not even be able to properly stand their ground and fight back.

OBJnoob

I actually think it’s a pretty neat idea. I have no problem with them being able to do it every 2 seconds, but I’d like there to be a cool down per skill. Because some spammables have major/minor debuff attached to them, and this is the only problem for me.

As long as it can’t be spammed… or at least not spammed while simultaneously doing a dps rotation, I’m fine with it. Because every ability that they use to debuff you is also taking a global cool down away from them. So as long as they can’t spam damage WHILE doing it, it’s fine.

WreckfulAbandon

OBJnoob wrote: »

As long as it can’t be spammed… or at least not spammed while simultaneously doing a dps rotation, I’m fine with it. Because every ability that they use to debuff you is also taking a global cool down away from them. So as long as they can’t spam damage WHILE doing it, it’s fine.

Why do you think Im making this poll? Of course it can be spammed on you while someone is simultaneously pressuring you. Either outnumbered or just "clever" (/s) selection of skills by 1 person. Hope you like spamming Volatile Armor 🐸☕

fred4

We had resource poisons in the past. I guess they still exist, but nerfed to where hardly anyone uses them, as far as I'm aware. This set and a.n.other is along those same lines. It was a bad idea then, it's a bad idea now. ZOS must be running out of ideas. Rallying Cry seemed a good direction, as it favored single players and small groups more than large ones. Whatever you say about the capabilities of some 1vXers and small groups, in the average case you're still the underdog with smaller numbers. This set is the opposite to Rallying Cry. A single player won't have room for this. A large group will. ZOS is so directionless. Just a random idea to fill another DLC.

Can't say when I'll stop playing. Please don't phrase polls that way. I mean anyway, maybe it won't work in Ravenwatch (not that I like playing there). Do I believe this set should exist in any form? No.

WreckfulAbandon

fred4 wrote: »

Can't say when I'll stop playing. Please don't phrase polls that way.

Went ahead and changed the poll title since thats a reasonable request 👍

fizzylu

OBJnoob wrote: »

I actually think it’s a pretty neat idea. I have no problem with them being able to do it every 2 seconds, but I’d like there to be a cool down per skill. Because some spammables have major/minor debuff attached to them, and this is the only problem for me.

As long as it can’t be spammed… or at least not spammed while simultaneously doing a dps rotation, I’m fine with it. Because every ability that they use to debuff you is also taking a global cool down away from them. So as long as they can’t spam damage WHILE doing it, it’s fine.

Friendly reminder; Nightblades have Mark Target.... a skill that costs nothing and applies two major debuffs to a target. If people don't think others are going to be abusing that then they must have a pretty outlook on the world haha and that's not even including their ult which can apply a major debuff and their opener/gap closer that can apply a minor debuff. Also dks, necromancers, and wardens all have a decent toolkit to constantly have buffs removed from their enemy every 2 seconds. Templars will not get much use out of this set and sorcerers will not be able to use it at all, unless paired with another set of course (unsurprising that they make another thing that benefits sorcs in no way).
And if you think having to reapply buffs every two seconds isn't a big deal.... I run Channeled Acceleration and Critical Surge on my main. That's a minor buff and major buff I need to have up at all times. So let's say I have to reapply those twenty times in one encounter with an enemy player.... that's 143,360 magicka. And if those numbers aren't realistic to you, well.... even some 1v1's can last five minutes haha so I'm actually probably going a little too low on the times to reapply if they can remove buffs every 2 seconds.

Cuddlypuff

I'd vote for the option to remove multiple buffs proportional to the number of enemies debuffed. This will somewhat balance the set for outnumbered gameplay.

xDeusEJRx

If this set goes live, you better believe I'm spamming elemental drain/susceptibility from on top of keep walls. If others are gonna do it to me, I'm gonna do it to them

StamPlar_1976

Best set the dev team has ever created. I love it.

EF321

Chudan Rattlecage Meta

fizzylu

EF321 wrote: »

Chudan Rattlecage Meta

I already run Chudan's just because my annoying flappy bird, easy to kill self heal takes up two slots.... guess I should get to farming rattlecage now haha jk, I'm prob quitting if this patch goes live as is xD

Klingenlied

Biased poll. Hate those.

On topic though: interesting set in regards to Oakensoul. I mean once you have Oakensoul or just use set buffs, those are fixed while you can enjoy wreaking even more havoc on classic 2 bar builds. You would put yourself at an disadvantage against other Oaken Players however.

Anyway, the idea is cool and absolutely should be tested out. The reason many people hate on it is that it really has the possibility to crush a lot of the current meta builds. But be realistic. This set likely would not be used by everyone and the "finer" adjustments aren't even there yet because we lack actual usage feedback.

xDeusEJRx

Klingenlied wrote: »

Biased poll. Hate those.

On topic though: interesting set in regards to Oakensoul. I mean once you have Oakensoul or just use set buffs, those are fixed while you can enjoy wreaking even more havoc on classic 2 bar builds. You would put yourself at an disadvantage against other Oaken Players however.

Anyway, the idea is cool and absolutely should be tested out. The reason many people hate on it is that it really has the possibility to crush a lot of the current meta builds. But be realistic. This set likely would not be used by everyone and the "finer" adjustments aren't even there yet because we lack actual usage feedback.

Hard disagree, people hate it because it destroys any semblance of fluidity in PVP.

Think about it in terms of how many sets and playstyles it ruins:

Spell power potions and weapon power potion users are now stripped of major sorcery and brutality from their kit. Oh you're a necromancer who doesn't have a class source of sorcery and brutality and relies on potions? Guess you have to wait another 45 seconds to get your buffs back

You play with daedric trickery? Well say goodbye to the buffs you don't even full uptime on anyways. Your 50-60% uptime will now be 0 effectively ruining this set

You play with clever alchemist? Well now this set is effectively useless as well. Clever users are already limited to using potions on a single bar and now people are gonna yoink their potion buffs that clever users aren't even having 100% uptime on because of having to time their potions accordingly.

So on and so forth, so many playstyles and sets get ruined if this set becomes a meta. Even sea serpent a MYTHIC item can get gutted by this because you don't get permanent buffs off sea serpent, it only refreshes the timer. But that still doesn't change the fact they can just strip you off sea serpent buffs and only leave you with negatives.

This set is stronger than multiple 5 pieces AND some mythic items.
People are going to be forced to run chudan, rattlecage, dreugh king slayer and oakensoul to ensure that they can do any pvp without someone ruining their flow of combat and that's not even remotely good for pvp

Dem_kitkats1

I like the idea of this set. While I agree that it needs more of cool down than just 2 seconds and perhaps it shouldn't allow players to stack debuffs, but this game needs more counters other than just burst. A set with this concept adds that layer of that to the game. It adds more flavour and build variation by encouraging players to move away from meta sets like Clever Alch, Daedric, etc and to branch out into different playstyles. Buff management has always been a large part of ESO combat since I've been playing, so I don't think recasting a buff is that big of a deal. Players have been annoyed by healing and tank metas, and this set helps to combat that by making healers and tank builds more conscious and active in maintaining their group/self buffs, rather than simply recasting faceroll heals over and over again. I think the concept is good, but like others have said it needs to be tested and every 2 seconds is too much IMO.

xDeusEJRx

Dem_kitkats1 wrote: »

I like the idea of this set. While I agree that it needs more of cool down than just 2 seconds and perhaps it shouldn't allow players to stack debuffs, but this game needs more counters other than just burst. A set with this concept adds that layer of that to the game. It adds more flavour and build variation by encouraging players to move away from meta sets like Clever Alch, Daedric, etc and to branch out into different playstyles. Buff management has always been a large part of ESO combat since I've been playing, so I don't think recasting a buff is that big of a deal. Players have been annoyed by healing and tank metas, and this set helps to combat that by making healers and tank builds more conscious and active in maintaining their group/self buffs, rather than simply recasting faceroll heals over and over again. I think the concept is good, but like others have said it needs to be tested and every 2 seconds is too much IMO.

I feel like actual debuff sets like kynmarchers does a better job at it than this set. This set is basically kynmarchers on steroids. Because it double dips in debuffing people.
Like if you get hit with elemental drain for example, ele drain counters your armor buff essentially. Then the nocturnal set basically strips you of that armor buff. So instead of losing 5900 resistances you just lost 11,896 resistance from a skill that cost the enemy 0 resources. Now you not only are for a brief moment vulnerable until you realize it, you wasted resources and now have to expend more resources to regain that buff.

Kynmarcher is actually a counter set instead of a disarming your opponent set which I think is more fair.

The person of the receiving end has now taken 5 negatives from 1 ability(with elemental drain in mind)
Brief period of armor vulnerability
Had to recast my armor buff, let's assume I'm a sorcerer and boundless storm costs 2430 magic which means it's 4860 magic lost from losing resolve and then recasting resolve. Essentially the cost of 2 spammable moves
Down 11.896 resistance
Plus loss of a minor buff as well, whatever that minor buff may be.
Plus giving the enemy better resource sustain from minor magickasteal.

If you go with other morph susceptibility over ele drain you will now also get burning status effect, chilled status effect and concussed on you. Taking 5% more damage(concussed), 5% more crit damage(chilled) or burning damage proc

And what did the caster have to expend to get all these effects?
Nothing because elemental drain is a free skill that also can be casted from 28 meters away, so they can also do ALL of this while sitting on a keep wall

Verdict? If this set goes live free skills like elemental drain will become one of the strongest abilities in the game being able to significantly hinder anyone in pvp

Holycannoli

Guess I'll be running Oakensoul and Nocturnal's Ploy. Gonna have to pair it with a debuffing set too for maximum lulz.

WreckfulAbandon

DaisyRay wrote: »

[snip]

[edited to remove quote]

exeeter702

The burden of response with this set is completely out of wack. The user is gaining a substantial offensive tool while not actually having to play around the sets activation criteria, beyond throwing out a debuff that they are generally doing already.

The recipient on the other hand is forced to answer this set by having to closely monitor which buffs have been stripped, as to not waste resources applying one of the buffs that wasnt actually dispelled. In the miracle scenario where a player is able to figure out which buffs to refresh in a timely manner which is a heavy burden in and of itself, placed upon the player effortlessly by the set user, the noct set user gains even more benefit by way of attacking the targets resources via forcing them to refresh buffs. All while doing nothing of consequence beyond maybe spending an extra GCD or two one free cost debuff like ele drain.

This set is an absolute joke, and demonstrates a clear fundamental lack of foresight by the developers.

The ICD is too short and it must only proc on debuffs applied that cost a resource. On top of those two thing, there needs to be some kind of additional criteria for activating the dispel that forces the user into a committal interaction to make use of the set bonus.

As it stands, there is no interesting interplay between user and recipient. Frankly dispels in this game arent even really compatible as far as I'm concerned because there is no ability to interact with the UI to target specfic buffs and ESO doesnt operate on unqiue ability CD management for which strategic dispelling and purging are actually interesting as is the case in other mmorpgs. Zos wants to have their cake (bill eso as an online rpg with action combat without the annoying padding of traditional mmos) and eat it to (give their game aspects of traditional mmorpgs with tons of buffs and debuffs etc etc) . All this set accomplishes, is in creating an arms race where the recipient has to determine how much they can sustain their resources while playing wack a mole mid fight trying to target the buffs that are getting stripped, and doing this on a 2 second interval basis lol....

ZOS wants to lighten the burden of APM in their game and then add sets like this to it.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

I feel like ZOS has a tactic where they come up with 1 terrible set each DLC/Chapter in an effort to distract players from other issues with the changes.
They then simply make this set slightly less obnoxious and feel that they are then 'listening' to players.

That being said I'm not against a set removing buffs/debuffs/HoTs in general if there is some counterplay option too.

MetallicMonk

DaisyRay wrote: »

[snip]

Some people have standards and some people are cool with all the single digit IQ ideas ZoS comes up with; maybe if there were more of the former we'd all be playing a better game.

[edited to remove quote]

Arkew

be happy the cooldown is not per player XD

Wing

i think it might be interesting to be honest.

most solo / small scale are pretty robust in bringing and keeping up their own buffs, i can understand raids being a little more upset if they were putting the duty onto a single person or something.

at the same time we take buffs for granted, its just kind of assumed or guaranteed stats. perhaps expanding combat to include a risk / reward to buffs could be an interesting gameplay change, one core enough to effect builds or combat style.


THAT BEING SAID

this is still a "nerf" as previously stated these effects were stable, locked in, we buff, they are on, till we need to re buff based on durations.

throwing this out the window demands some form of compensation, if not in the strength of the buffs then in core stats or further methods of semi permanent acquisition, such as tacked onto skills or sets (oakensoul is an obvious item, but many skills such as Undo or Revealing flame provide constant buffs while on your bar, and many passives require a skill slotted)


do i like the combat and build diversity this has the potential to bring?

yes.

do i like that its kind of a blatant nerf to throw our buff reliability / consistency out the window and give us nothing in return?

NO.

TechMaybeHic

This set is counter intuitive to the stated goal of not wanting people to have to watch keep up DOTs. At least DOTs you have an idea what you are going to recast. This set will just remove a random buff so you'll be wondering what you used and really have to stare at it.

Also; we have debuff sets in form of things like Kynmarcher and that has an 8 second CD, requires targets within 8 m of you, and being a debuff, the target gets back what they were missing when it ends. This new set has the permanent removal effect unless you recast, a quarter of the cooldown, and as it applies with a debuff it has a double effect of debuffing AND removing a buff. And it can be used at range.

It is single target, but this is going to be terrible for everybody except groups that mass buff each other.

Then this set also has the potential to remove effects from potions which seems incredibly lopsided given the timer between the 2