Conceding is Desertion?

Silufadumar

In Tales of Tribute, sometimes you just get unlucky with the draw of the cards.
For example, in a recent match my opponent managed to get 2 Armoury cards early in the game and there was nothing I could do about it.

As the match played on it became apparent, through his increasing lead and my lack of luck with the draw, that the match was his.

So I conceded.... Or as Zos and the game would have it ... Deserted.

How is the former the same as the latter?
They are not the same is the answer and are in fact completely different concepts.

Players should not find themselves locked out of further matches for conceding to their opponent.
Please change this Zos.

Cryptor

while these are different concepts I agree with the cooldown, you absolutely should have cooldown when leaving a game

Holycannoli

Cryptor wrote: »

while these are different concepts I agree with the cooldown, you absolutely should have cooldown when leaving a game

Cooldown after conceding a game? Vs sticking around to lose instead?

No.

Kiralyn2000

Cryptor wrote: »

while these are different concepts I agree with the cooldown, you absolutely should have cooldown when leaving a game

Eh. Saying "this is a lost cause, you win. Grats." is a bit different than d/c'ing out of a match so that the opponent gets screwed by it not finishing/declaring a win. Or bailing on your battleground/dungeon team.

Doesn't feel like you should get a penalty for conceding. Especially if it's an official option the game gives you.


(disclaimer - I've not actually played ToT, so I don't know the details. Just speaking at a conceptual level.)

Kisakee

It doesn't matter what you call it, the cooldown is only there to prevent abuse.

Cryptor

Holycannoli wrote: »

Cryptor wrote: »

while these are different concepts I agree with the cooldown, you absolutely should have cooldown when leaving a game

Cooldown after conceding a game? Vs sticking around to lose instead?

No.

in the current setup there is no way to differentiate between you leaving a game because you feel you have no chance of winning, disconnecting or quitting because you are losing. What would be your solution?

Treeshka

Yes currently conceding a match puts you in a penalty. But i believe it only happens if you do it within the first ten minutes.

Cryptor

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Cryptor wrote: »

(disclaimer - I've not actually played ToT, so I don't know the details. Just speaking at a conceptual level.)

I am sorry, you felt the need to comment on a card game you have never played?

Kiralyn2000

Cryptor wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

(disclaimer - I've not actually played ToT, so I don't know the details. Just speaking at a conceptual level.)

I am sorry, you felt the need to comment on a card game you have never played?

As I said, I was commenting on the concept that 'conceding' should be considered the same as 'deserting'.

Now, if the game doesn't actually have a "concede" function, and the OP just quit, then yeah - that wouldn't be "conceding", would it?


edit: I suppose there might still be a cooldown on official Conceding, to keep people from win/rank trading. /ponder

Holycannoli

Kisakee wrote: »

It doesn't matter what you call it, the cooldown is only there to prevent abuse.

What abuse? What about conceding a match could be abused?

jaws343

Or just finish the game...

I had a bad match yesterday, lost 45-4. Was certain I was not going to win around 30-2.

But, I played for 2 more minutes and lost, because what's the point of conceding? It's very poor sportsmanship imo.

thorwyn

Conceding a game when you are hopelessly behind is the most polite and correct thing to do. You don't want to waste your time and you don't want to waste your opponent's time. In every single card game out there, Gwent, Hearthstone, Magic, you can concede at any point.

fezarel

Conceding in this case is not the right and sportsmanlike thing to do. If you concede your opponents win does not count for the daily. Unless they change that, they should make conceding very unattractive in my opinion.

I usually play ToT to get the dailies. Last week I managed to get get the upper hand after being far behind for a long time. It was a very long game and the same turn I would have won, my opponent conceded. I was so dispirited that I would need to play even longer to get the required wins, I just gave up the dailies for a while.

Holycannoli

fezarel wrote: »

Conceding in this case is not the right and sportsmanlike thing to do. If you concede your opponents win does not count for the daily. Unless they change that, they should make conceding very unattractive in my opinion.

I usually play ToT to get the dailies. Last week I managed to get get the upper hand after being far behind for a long time. It was a very long game and the same turn I would have won, my opponent conceded. I was so dispirited that I would need to play even longer to get the required wins, I just gave up the dailies for a while.

Oh, I did not know that conceding doesn't give your opponent the win.

That's a ridiculous oversight and the patch on PTS should have addressed that instead of all the nerfs we're getting.

Dragonlord573

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Cryptor wrote: »

while these are different concepts I agree with the cooldown, you absolutely should have cooldown when leaving a game

Eh. Saying "this is a lost cause, you win. Grats." is a bit different than d/c'ing out of a match so that the opponent gets screwed by it not finishing/declaring a win. Or bailing on your battleground/dungeon team.

Doesn't feel like you should get a penalty for conceding. Especially if it's an official option the game gives you.


(disclaimer - I've not actually played ToT, so I don't know the details. Just speaking at a conceptual level.)

If you get DCed from a BG you still get the 5 minute desertion penalty. It really freaking sucks man

jaws343

Holycannoli wrote: »

fezarel wrote: »

Conceding in this case is not the right and sportsmanlike thing to do. If you concede your opponents win does not count for the daily. Unless they change that, they should make conceding very unattractive in my opinion.

I usually play ToT to get the dailies. Last week I managed to get get the upper hand after being far behind for a long time. It was a very long game and the same turn I would have won, my opponent conceded. I was so dispirited that I would need to play even longer to get the required wins, I just gave up the dailies for a while.

Oh, I did not know that conceding doesn't give your opponent the win.

That's a ridiculous oversight and the patch on PTS should have addressed that instead of all the nerfs we're getting.

It is addressed in the PTS notes. But that is still 2 months out before we see those fixes in game.

thorwyn

Conceding in this case is not the right and sportsmanlike thing to do. If you concede your opponents win does not count for the daily. Unless they change that, they should make conceding very unattractive in my opinion.

Then it is incredibly bad game design. But hey, it's ZOS...

Cryptor

Holycannoli wrote: »

What abuse? What about conceding a match could be abused?

I don't know if this is your first card game but the obvious one would be people constantly quitting games as soon as they sense that they are falling behind.

wolfie1.0.

You are my opponent and you are winning.

What would you like me to do most:

A: concede the match resulting in net benefit loss
B: walk away and go make a sandwich and time out
C: have me find a way to make your inevitable victory as annoying as possible.
have a way in which I can concede it records everything and we all move on with no penalty to either player?

Holycannoli

Cryptor wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

What abuse? What about conceding a match could be abused?

I don't know if this is your first card game but the obvious one would be people constantly quitting games as soon as they sense that they are falling behind.

Constantly quitting games as soon as they sense that they are falling behind = constantly giving your opponent a faster win. I wouldn't mind if every single opponent in MTG Arena conceded early on lol. More wins for me!

Or it should. Apparently in ToT if you concede your opponent doesn't get the win?

spartaxoxo

Holycannoli wrote: »

Kisakee wrote: »

It doesn't matter what you call it, the cooldown is only there to prevent abuse.

What abuse? What about conceding a match could be abused?

Someone who leaves early constantly unless the cards highly favor them will have more matches they can play than someone who plays out the game. So, if they only play out wins it becomes easier for them to rank up than people who try to win matches and come back from behind, even if that person is higher skill and actually does manage to win a long match where their opponent had an early lead.

I don't know they have the penalty in unranked, but ranked needs it.

spartaxoxo

thorwyn wrote: »

Conceding a game when you are hopelessly behind is the most polite and correct thing to do. You don't want to waste your time and you don't want to waste your opponent's time. In every single card game out there, Gwent, Hearthstone, Magic, you can concede at any point.

Eh. I think it should be conceding after X amount of time. So like you have to play the first 10 minutes and actually try, instead of conceding when your behind on first draw so you can speed run through losses.

wolfie1.0.

Cryptor wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

What abuse? What about conceding a match could be abused?

I don't know if this is your first card game but the obvious one would be people constantly quitting games as soon as they sense that they are falling behind.

What's to stop players from doing that now?

I mean it's actually beneficial to the person losing to do it because the person that didn't resign doesn't get a victory. Meaning that the time spent in a match was wasted.

The person resigning just waits a few minutes and gets an easier opponent.

The only reason to have this in place is to prevent players climbing the leaderboards from "providing incentives" to another player to resign.

Maybe that's enough of a reason. Idk.

spartaxoxo

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Cryptor wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

What abuse? What about conceding a match could be abused?

I don't know if this is your first card game but the obvious one would be people constantly quitting games as soon as they sense that they are falling behind.

What's to stop players from doing that now?

I mean it's actually beneficial to the person losing to do it because the person that didn't resign doesn't get a victory. Meaning that the time spent in a match was wasted.

The person resigning just waits a few minutes and gets an easier opponent.

The only reason to have this in place is to prevent players climbing the leaderboards from "providing incentives" to another player to resign.

Maybe that's enough of a reason. Idk.

Not getting a win for the quest (still counts for the cheevo) is a bug that's being patched. That reason is there too, but the penalty evens things out a bit. I'm unsure how long it is because I've never conceded. But, it would only need to be about 15 minutes or so to make that less attractive and less effective at climbing.

thorwyn

Eh. I think it should be conceding after X amount of time. So like you have to play the first 10 minutes and actually try, instead of conceding when your behind on first draw so you can speed run through losses.

Why? What does a 10 minute timer achieve in a game with a 90s turn timer? If one side decides that he is too far behind on tunr 2 (which, correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't really happen), he could just go afk and let the turns run out. If anything, you could make an argument for a minimum of turns played, say 5. But even that is an unneccesary feature.
Like I said, there are other card games out there, all of them MUCH more competitive than ToT, and none of them have any restrictions when it comes to conceding.

Hawkeye

jaws343 wrote: »

Or just finish the game...

I had a bad match yesterday, lost 45-4. Was certain I was not going to win around 30-2.

But, I played for 2 more minutes and lost, because what's the point of conceding? It's very poor sportsmanship imo.

Let me enlighten you on the meaning of Concede: surrender or yield (something that one possesses).
"to concede all the territory he'd won"
How is that poor sportsmanship? To be punished for an option is about as silly as poop on a shoe!

KefkaGestahl

You should do the gentleman's concession by just ending your turn instantly. If your opponent recognizes your concession, they can speed up their turns and just focus on getting the match over as quickly as possible. It's what I try to do.

Holycannoli

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

Kisakee wrote: »

It doesn't matter what you call it, the cooldown is only there to prevent abuse.

What abuse? What about conceding a match could be abused?

Someone who leaves early constantly unless the cards highly favor them will have more matches they can play than someone who plays out the game. So, if they only play out wins it becomes easier for them to rank up than people who try to win matches and come back from behind, even if that person is higher skill and actually does manage to win a long match where their opponent had an early lead.

I don't know they have the penalty in unranked, but ranked needs it.

Well that's exactly the problem. Conceding should be an automatic loss so it doesn't matter if you're getting more matches in a shorter time.

amapola76

KefkaGestahl wrote: »

You should do the gentleman's concession by just ending your turn instantly. If your opponent recognizes your concession, they can speed up their turns and just focus on getting the match over as quickly as possible. It's what I try to do.

This is the way.

I had at least five games on Sunday alone where we got to the last hand, and the other player realized that they were going to lose and conceded, thus depriving me of the count toward the daily challenge. It wasted a full hour or more of my life.

This is extremely poor sportsmanship, or to put it another way, a real d!ck move. If you realize you are going to lose, end the turn, and let the other player get the credit for it that they deserve for beating you fair and square. It's what I do, and quite frankly, I lose almost as much as I win with other players.

At the very least, the devs should recognize that people are abusing the system, and make it so that a concession counts toward the daily challenge.