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What is weaving?
Acetriad
✭✭
From the context I've seen it used in, I THINK it is the way in which you strong together abilities in combat. Like 'ability A gives me this buff, so I use it, then ability b, for another buff, then hit ability c, which lowers my target's resistances, then ability d, which does lots of damage, then back to ability a' for a simple example. I'm pretty sure I'm at least on the right track, but I'm still fairly new, so I welcome people telling me I'm wrong, as long as they also explain what's right.
[edited for profanity bypass]
Edited by ZOS_Icy on July 8, 2022 10:28AM [edited for profanity bypass]
0
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Alchimiste1✭✭✭✭✭From the context I've seen it used in, I THINK it is the way in which you strong together abilities in combat. Like 'ability A gives me this buff, so I use it, then ability b, for another buff, then hit ability c, which lowers my target's resistances, then ability d, which does lots of damage, then back to ability a' for a simple example. I'm pretty sure I'm at least on the right track, but I'm still fairly new, so I welcome people telling me I'm wrong, as long as they also explain what's right.
weave simply refers to light attack weaving in which you light attack in between skills cast for example ;
[Light attack + Ability A ] ---> [Light attack + Ability B ] ---> [Light attack + Ability C ]
everything in Brackets happens in the same 1 second cooldown to maximize dps.2 -
FluffyReachWitch✭✭✭✭✭You're on the right track, but what you're describing (using abilities in sequence) is known as a rotation.
Weaving is when you perform a light attack between each of your abilities. This adds extra DPS, so it's a pretty useful habit to get into.4 -
WinterHeart626✭✭✭✭It also cancels the attack animation of its done right, not sure how it’s going to impact the people who parse, but that’s neither here nor there, what’s to be seen, is how it affects gameplay experience for players.0
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jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WinterHeart626 wrote: »It also cancels the attack animation of its done right, not sure how it’s going to impact the people who parse, but that’s neither here nor there, what’s to be seen, is how it affects gameplay experience for players.
It will literally do nothing for people who parse, because they aren't changing weaving, they are only reducing the damage of light and heavy attacks to lower dps. Players who practice weaving will still have the same actions they do now just slightly less damage.5 -
WinterHeart626✭✭✭✭Thanks jaws, that was a misunderstanding of the notes on my part for that piece. Been up since 4:30am at work reading through what I can lol.0
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Eatmyface✭✭✭✭Weaving is an extremely simple. You click one button prior to every skill. 25mins on a target dummy and you'll master 80% of it. But that's too much to ask for somebody chasing a goal these days.
Now cancel culture has thrown the hammer down on it, calling it unfair and biased towards somebody with higher skill (i.e. somebody who applied themselves in order to become good at something).
In 2022 you have the right to be just as good as the person who has spent hundreds of hours perfecting their craft.13 -
maxjapank✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Weaving is an extremely simple. You click one button prior to every skill. 25mins on a target dummy and you'll master 80% of it. But that's too much to ask for somebody chasing a goal these days.
Now cancel culture has thrown the hammer down on it, calling it unfair and biased towards somebody with higher skill (i.e. somebody who applied themselves in order to become good at something).
In 2022 you have the right to be just as good as the person who has spent hundreds of hours perfecting their craft.
No reason LA attacks should be 20% of overall dmg, costing no resources to do. Players who have mastered weaving will still do more dmg. But this is a smart way to lower such a massive part of dmg. It also helps level the playing field of high ping vs. low ping to some degree. Not sure where cancel culture fits into this at all.3 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Weaving is an extremely simple. You click one button prior to every skill. 25mins on a target dummy and you'll master 80% of it. But that's too much to ask for somebody chasing a goal these days.
Now cancel culture has thrown the hammer down on it, calling it unfair and biased towards somebody with higher skill (i.e. somebody who applied themselves in order to become good at something).
In 2022 you have the right to be just as good as the person who has spent hundreds of hours perfecting their craft.
No reason LA attacks should be 20% of overall dmg, costing no resources to do. Players who have mastered weaving will still do more dmg. But this is a smart way to lower such a massive part of dmg. It also helps level the playing field of high ping vs. low ping to some degree. Not sure where cancel culture fits into this at all.
It's more like 15% of damage currently. Why shouldn't it be? In previous elder scrolls games light and heavy attacks were close to 100% of damage output for some builds, no reason to spend resources or cast spells. I see a lot of new players attempting to play like that in ESO, with minimal use of skills. We'll see how they like a significant damage nerf, one that barely affects the end game ceiling DPS.6 -
maxjapank✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »Weaving is an extremely simple. You click one button prior to every skill. 25mins on a target dummy and you'll master 80% of it. But that's too much to ask for somebody chasing a goal these days.
Now cancel culture has thrown the hammer down on it, calling it unfair and biased towards somebody with higher skill (i.e. somebody who applied themselves in order to become good at something).
In 2022 you have the right to be just as good as the person who has spent hundreds of hours perfecting their craft.
No reason LA attacks should be 20% of overall dmg, costing no resources to do. Players who have mastered weaving will still do more dmg. But this is a smart way to lower such a massive part of dmg. It also helps level the playing field of high ping vs. low ping to some degree. Not sure where cancel culture fits into this at all.
It's more like 15% of damage currently. Why shouldn't it be? In previous elder scrolls games light and heavy attacks were close to 100% of damage output for some builds, no reason to spend resources or cast spells. I see a lot of new players attempting to play like that in ESO, with minimal use of skills. We'll see how they like a significant damage nerf, one that barely affects the end game ceiling DPS.
Why shouldn’t it be such a high percentage of dmg? Because it shouldn’t.1 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »Weaving is an extremely simple. You click one button prior to every skill. 25mins on a target dummy and you'll master 80% of it. But that's too much to ask for somebody chasing a goal these days.
Now cancel culture has thrown the hammer down on it, calling it unfair and biased towards somebody with higher skill (i.e. somebody who applied themselves in order to become good at something).
In 2022 you have the right to be just as good as the person who has spent hundreds of hours perfecting their craft.
No reason LA attacks should be 20% of overall dmg, costing no resources to do. Players who have mastered weaving will still do more dmg. But this is a smart way to lower such a massive part of dmg. It also helps level the playing field of high ping vs. low ping to some degree. Not sure where cancel culture fits into this at all.
It's more like 15% of damage currently. Why shouldn't it be? In previous elder scrolls games light and heavy attacks were close to 100% of damage output for some builds, no reason to spend resources or cast spells. I see a lot of new players attempting to play like that in ESO, with minimal use of skills. We'll see how they like a significant damage nerf, one that barely affects the end game ceiling DPS.
Why shouldn’t it be such a high percentage of dmg? Because it shouldn’t.
What percentage would you find acceptable? It was once about 25%, but people complained so it was reduced to 15%. Then more people continued to complain, so now it's being halved to ~8%.
Is that the end? Or is it still unfair that using the character's weapon between skill casts gives a DPS gain? Maybe next year it drops to 5% or 3%, then 1%. Are the opponents of weaving really going to be happy with anything other than 0%?11 -
maxjapank✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »Weaving is an extremely simple. You click one button prior to every skill. 25mins on a target dummy and you'll master 80% of it. But that's too much to ask for somebody chasing a goal these days.
Now cancel culture has thrown the hammer down on it, calling it unfair and biased towards somebody with higher skill (i.e. somebody who applied themselves in order to become good at something).
In 2022 you have the right to be just as good as the person who has spent hundreds of hours perfecting their craft.
No reason LA attacks should be 20% of overall dmg, costing no resources to do. Players who have mastered weaving will still do more dmg. But this is a smart way to lower such a massive part of dmg. It also helps level the playing field of high ping vs. low ping to some degree. Not sure where cancel culture fits into this at all.
It's more like 15% of damage currently. Why shouldn't it be? In previous elder scrolls games light and heavy attacks were close to 100% of damage output for some builds, no reason to spend resources or cast spells. I see a lot of new players attempting to play like that in ESO, with minimal use of skills. We'll see how they like a significant damage nerf, one that barely affects the end game ceiling DPS.
Why shouldn’t it be such a high percentage of dmg? Because it shouldn’t.
What percentage would you find acceptable? It was once about 25%, but people complained so it was reduced to 15%. Then more people continued to complain, so now it's being halved to ~8%.
Is that the end? Or is it still unfair that using the character's weapon between skill casts gives a DPS gain? Maybe next year it drops to 5% or 3%, then 1%. Are the opponents of weaving really going to be happy with anything other than 0%?
The Devs will decide the overall percentage. It is neither yours nor my decision. And you are welcome to complain about it all you want. But in the end, I think this is good for the overall community. Sorry. Another thing about LA weaving is it still enables good players to get off more skill attacks than the average player. So again, in the end, good players will still land both more skill attacks and more LA.1 -
Acetriad✭✭Weaving is an extremely simple. You click one button prior to every skill. 25mins on a target dummy and you'll master 80% of it. But that's too much to ask for somebody chasing a goal these days.
Now cancel culture has thrown the hammer down on it, calling it unfair and biased towards somebody with higher skill (i.e. somebody who applied themselves in order to become good at something).
In 2022 you have the right to be just as good as the person who has spent hundreds of hours perfecting their craft.
Well, one does need to know WHAT to practice, on said dummy. Asking what a thing is, and how to do it are a far cry from 'gimme more dps now!' or 'get rid of that because I can't do it.' Although I understand your point (Let people who can't play basketball into the NBA because it's mean and exclusionary to not let them in=stupid) it isn't what I'm going for here. It's more of a (continuing example) 'Is this how to dribble the ball around defenders?'2 -
Eatmyface✭✭✭✭Weaving is an extremely simple. You click one button prior to every skill. 25mins on a target dummy and you'll master 80% of it. But that's too much to ask for somebody chasing a goal these days.
Now cancel culture has thrown the hammer down on it, calling it unfair and biased towards somebody with higher skill (i.e. somebody who applied themselves in order to become good at something).
In 2022 you have the right to be just as good as the person who has spent hundreds of hours perfecting their craft.
Well, one does need to know WHAT to practice, on said dummy. Asking what a thing is, and how to do it are a far cry from 'gimme more dps now!' or 'get rid of that because I can't do it.' Although I understand your point (Let people who can't play basketball into the NBA because it's mean and exclusionary to not let them in=stupid) it isn't what I'm going for here. It's more of a (continuing example) 'Is this how to dribble the ball around defenders?'
All of that information is available to anybody who cares to look for it, ask for it (after all, it is an MMO), or even just pay attention to their surroundings in-game. And that's not a dig at all to new players, it's simply a fact.
The way in which APM, skill gaps, lowering the ceiling/raising the floor continue to be referenced, I believe this latest proposed update is just another example of the developer trying to help people who simply do not want to help themselves. These same people will still stand in front of a one-shot mechanic, die and blame the healer. They will still play with the skills/gear they want, and take offense to anyone offering help. And good players will continue to be good players and clear content.3 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »Weaving is an extremely simple. You click one button prior to every skill. 25mins on a target dummy and you'll master 80% of it. But that's too much to ask for somebody chasing a goal these days.
Now cancel culture has thrown the hammer down on it, calling it unfair and biased towards somebody with higher skill (i.e. somebody who applied themselves in order to become good at something).
In 2022 you have the right to be just as good as the person who has spent hundreds of hours perfecting their craft.
No reason LA attacks should be 20% of overall dmg, costing no resources to do. Players who have mastered weaving will still do more dmg. But this is a smart way to lower such a massive part of dmg. It also helps level the playing field of high ping vs. low ping to some degree. Not sure where cancel culture fits into this at all.
It's more like 15% of damage currently. Why shouldn't it be? In previous elder scrolls games light and heavy attacks were close to 100% of damage output for some builds, no reason to spend resources or cast spells. I see a lot of new players attempting to play like that in ESO, with minimal use of skills. We'll see how they like a significant damage nerf, one that barely affects the end game ceiling DPS.
Why shouldn’t it be such a high percentage of dmg? Because it shouldn’t.
What percentage would you find acceptable? It was once about 25%, but people complained so it was reduced to 15%. Then more people continued to complain, so now it's being halved to ~8%.
Is that the end? Or is it still unfair that using the character's weapon between skill casts gives a DPS gain? Maybe next year it drops to 5% or 3%, then 1%. Are the opponents of weaving really going to be happy with anything other than 0%?
The Devs will decide the overall percentage. It is neither yours nor my decision. And you are welcome to complain about it all you want. But in the end, I think this is good for the overall community. Sorry. Another thing about LA weaving is it still enables good players to get off more skill attacks than the average player. So again, in the end, good players will still land both more skill attacks and more LA.
who is "the overall community"
I really want to know this.
Who is this helping exactly? And what is it helping them do? I have really bad news for anyone whose dps is too low for end game content right now.
your dps is going to go down
Sure the high end dps is going to drop more because they do more light attacks, but it's not helping anyone. Literally no one is going to benefit from this.
high ping players, people who are bad at light attack weaving, you're doing to do less dps. Everyone. less damage.
You know who is going to do more damage? Tanks. Tanks will do more light attack damage. Everyone else, less damage.
Can people please try and understand this. If you have low dps now, you're doing to have less soon.5 -
maxjapank✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »Weaving is an extremely simple. You click one button prior to every skill. 25mins on a target dummy and you'll master 80% of it. But that's too much to ask for somebody chasing a goal these days.
Now cancel culture has thrown the hammer down on it, calling it unfair and biased towards somebody with higher skill (i.e. somebody who applied themselves in order to become good at something).
In 2022 you have the right to be just as good as the person who has spent hundreds of hours perfecting their craft.
No reason LA attacks should be 20% of overall dmg, costing no resources to do. Players who have mastered weaving will still do more dmg. But this is a smart way to lower such a massive part of dmg. It also helps level the playing field of high ping vs. low ping to some degree. Not sure where cancel culture fits into this at all.
It's more like 15% of damage currently. Why shouldn't it be? In previous elder scrolls games light and heavy attacks were close to 100% of damage output for some builds, no reason to spend resources or cast spells. I see a lot of new players attempting to play like that in ESO, with minimal use of skills. We'll see how they like a significant damage nerf, one that barely affects the end game ceiling DPS.
Why shouldn’t it be such a high percentage of dmg? Because it shouldn’t.
What percentage would you find acceptable? It was once about 25%, but people complained so it was reduced to 15%. Then more people continued to complain, so now it's being halved to ~8%.
Is that the end? Or is it still unfair that using the character's weapon between skill casts gives a DPS gain? Maybe next year it drops to 5% or 3%, then 1%. Are the opponents of weaving really going to be happy with anything other than 0%?
The Devs will decide the overall percentage. It is neither yours nor my decision. And you are welcome to complain about it all you want. But in the end, I think this is good for the overall community. Sorry. Another thing about LA weaving is it still enables good players to get off more skill attacks than the average player. So again, in the end, good players will still land both more skill attacks and more LA.
who is "the overall community"
I really want to know this.
Who is this helping exactly? And what is it helping them do? I have really bad news for anyone whose dps is too low for end game content right now.
your dps is going to go down
Sure the high end dps is going to drop more because they do more light attacks, but it's not helping anyone. Literally no one is going to benefit from this.
high ping players, people who are bad at light attack weaving, you're doing to do less dps. Everyone. less damage.
You know who is going to do more damage? Tanks. Tanks will do more light attack damage. Everyone else, less damage.
Can people please try and understand this. If you have low dps now, you're doing to have less soon.
Who is this overall community? Well, according to these changes, the Devs feel that more players will benefit from these changes than you think. [snip]
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on July 8, 2022 10:24AM2 -
p00tx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭From the context I've seen it used in, I THINK it is the way in which you strong together abilities in combat. Like 'ability A gives me this buff, so I use it, then ability b, for another buff, then hit ability c, which lowers my target's resistances, then ability d, which does lots of damage, then back to ability a' for a simple example. I'm pretty sure I'm at least on the right track, but I'm still fairly new, so I welcome people telling me I'm wrong, as long as they also explain what's right.
All skills that aren't channeled abilities (it'll indicate this in the skill description) are on a one second global cooldown, meaning you can't cast another skill before that second is up. Light attacks are on a 0.5 second global cooldown, and they don't change the function of the actual skill being cast, so players can fill in or "weave" light attacks between every skill cast to add more damage to their rotations. It creates a casting rhythm that sounds almost like a heartbeat. You can actually do the same thing with blocking or bashing, but they'll do far less damage.PC/Xbox NA Mindmender|Swashbuckler Supreme|Planes Breaker|Dawnbringer|Godslayer|Immortal Redeemer|Gryphon Heart|Tick-tock Tormentor|Dro-m'Athra Destroyer|Stormproof|Grand Overlord|Grand Mastercrafter|Master Grappler|Tamriel Hero1 -
ShadowProc✭✭✭✭✭Weaving is an extremely simple. You click one button prior to every skill. 25mins on a target dummy and you'll master 80% of it. But that's too much to ask for somebody chasing a goal these days.
Now cancel culture has thrown the hammer down on it, calling it unfair and biased towards somebody with higher skill (i.e. somebody who applied themselves in order to become good at something).
In 2022 you have the right to be just as good as the person who has spent hundreds of hours perfecting their craft.
This comment is completely in appropriate and wrong for many reasons. The fact that people agree with you is scary. It’s a slight nerf to damage. Not even close to what is going on in America.4 -
FangOfTheTwoMoons✭✭✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »Weaving is an extremely simple. You click one button prior to every skill. 25mins on a target dummy and you'll master 80% of it. But that's too much to ask for somebody chasing a goal these days.
Now cancel culture has thrown the hammer down on it, calling it unfair and biased towards somebody with higher skill (i.e. somebody who applied themselves in order to become good at something).
In 2022 you have the right to be just as good as the person who has spent hundreds of hours perfecting their craft.
No reason LA attacks should be 20% of overall dmg, costing no resources to do. Players who have mastered weaving will still do more dmg. But this is a smart way to lower such a massive part of dmg. It also helps level the playing field of high ping vs. low ping to some degree. Not sure where cancel culture fits into this at all.
It's more like 15% of damage currently. Why shouldn't it be? In previous elder scrolls games light and heavy attacks were close to 100% of damage output for some builds, no reason to spend resources or cast spells. I see a lot of new players attempting to play like that in ESO, with minimal use of skills. We'll see how they like a significant damage nerf, one that barely affects the end game ceiling DPS.
Why shouldn’t it be such a high percentage of dmg? Because it shouldn’t.
What percentage would you find acceptable? It was once about 25%, but people complained so it was reduced to 15%. Then more people continued to complain, so now it's being halved to ~8%.
Is that the end? Or is it still unfair that using the character's weapon between skill casts gives a DPS gain? Maybe next year it drops to 5% or 3%, then 1%. Are the opponents of weaving really going to be happy with anything other than 0%?
The Devs will decide the overall percentage. It is neither yours nor my decision. And you are welcome to complain about it all you want. But in the end, I think this is good for the overall community. Sorry. Another thing about LA weaving is it still enables good players to get off more skill attacks than the average player. So again, in the end, good players will still land both more skill attacks and more LA.
Weaving does not enable the use of more skills. That would imply there's a way around the 1 second Global Cooldown. Which there isn't.0 -
itsfatbass✭✭✭✭✭Let be honest, damage has gone whack and off the scales in ESO and a drastic, direct nerf is needed. Will we likely lose some damage? Surely will but will we not the lose the ability to beat fights, including speed runs. 6 figure parses are way too much! And this is coming from someone who does parse 6 figures.Edited by itsfatbass on July 7, 2022 1:59PM~PC/NA~ Magblade, Tankanist, Healplar, Stamcro, Oakensorc, Healden, Tanknight ~PLUR~1
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prof_doom✭✭✭✭✭itsfatbass wrote: »Let be honest, damage has gone whack and off the scales in ESO and a drastic, direct nerf is needed. Will we likely lose some damage? Surely will but will we not the lose the ability to beat fights, including speed runs. 6 figure parses are way too much! And this is coming from someone who does parse 6 figures.
That's all well and good until you remember that the current sets of dungeons/trials are balanced around the "off the scale" damage.
If the point of this change is to open up the "endgame" content to more people, this isn't going to do it.0 -
acastanza_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@maxjapank Let me put it this way, they're changing light attacks so they no longer scale with stats.
A light attack is the basic, innate attack from your weapon.
With this "update" can now put a weapon damage enchantment on your weapon and your weapon's basic damage will not change.
This is stupid.
If they think light attack damage is too high, they can cap the damage. [snip]
[edited for mild bashing]Edited by ZOS_Icy on July 8, 2022 10:26AM1 -
FlopsyPrince✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭A needless complication making it so some of us can always be told to "get gud" without being able to fully do that!PC
PS4/PS51 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Weaving is using a light attack in between your skills (light attack -> skill -> light attack -> skill etc). It's really simple and easy to learn unless you ask people in the ESO forums who somehow think that you need to be a korean pro player with 800 APM in order to play this game.I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.2 -
maxjapank✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭acastanza_ESO wrote: »@maxjapank Let me put it this way, they're changing light attacks so they no longer scale with stats.
A light attack is the basic, innate attack from your weapon.
With this "update" can now put a weapon damage enchantment on your weapon and your weapon's basic damage will not change.
This is stupid.
If they think light attack damage is too high, they can cap the damage. [snip]
You’re preaching to the wrong choir. I am not a Dev and have no control over what happens. But I do believe that light attacks and LA weaving should not be such a high percentage of total dmg now. Personally, I don’t think that we should be able to animation cancel, but as that will never change, I’d be fine with them just automatically cutting down animation or automatically add LA weaving.
What’s been interesting about this whole change is you’ve got players on the official forums going nuts about the end of ESO if this change happens, not mention plenty of “get gud baddies” elitist attitudes. And yet, there is a whole another post on Reddit with many players excited by the change, with some even saying they’d return to ESO with this change.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on July 8, 2022 10:27AM2 -
miguelcura✭✭✭From the context I've seen it used in, I THINK it is the way in which you strong together abilities in combat. Like 'ability A gives me this buff, so I use it, then ability b, for another buff, then hit ability c, which lowers my target's resistances, then ability d, which does lots of damage, then back to ability a' for a simple example. I'm pretty sure I'm at least on the right track, but I'm still fairly new, so I welcome people telling me I'm wrong, as long as they also explain what's right.
Weaving is a game programming error like so many others, which was normalized.
On top of everything it is a technique that is very sensitive to latency, and the ESO servers are very bad, you will see.
Update 35 seems to bring some coherence, but improvements are still missing in this regard.
Edited by miguelcura on July 8, 2022 2:51AM0 -
Sync01✭✭✭✭Light attack weaving is not doing one light attack, then one skill, one light attack etc.
It's using a skill to interrupt the animation of a light attack after you get the damage from the LA. Essentially you are doing a LA and then a skill, so I see where the confusion comes from, but in order to actually weave you need to interrupt the light attack animation.
There's a short window of time when you can interrupt the LA, and the better you time it the more damage you will do over time. Learning how to light attack weave is learning to interrupt the LA with a skill, learning how to light attack weave well is to learn how to interrupt the LA with a skill at the exact right time.
1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUEio_xwc2U&ab_channel=Plectro