Naryu's dialogue in Belkarth

ColovianHastur

Finding Naryu in Belkarth's Festival Grounds was a pleasant surprise. The conversation you have with her however, not so much.

The conversation is fine at the start, but eventually your character gets this dialogue line:

But you saved Vivec and Sotha Sil.

But... she didn't. Naryu had no involvement in either Morrowind or Clockwork City's main quests, in which you (the Vestige) save Vivec and Sotha Sil respectively. In Morrowind, she only appeared in the tutorial and in Balmora's questline, and she has no presence in the Clockwork City DLC. In fact, her involvement with the whole Daedric War storyline is very indirect.

And yet the Vestige, who is the one who actually saved Vivec and Sotha Sil, claims it was Naryu who did it?

Ratzkifal

Wow. If that's the case why not lump in Almalexia too? Naryu was involved in stopping a plot against her at the very least. She didn't play a big part in that too mind you.

Syldras

Dialogue according to UESP:

Naryu: Hello, hero. Fancy seeing you at a simple festival with absolutely nothing covert going on. Unless ….
Player: If you're asking that does that mean you're not here on … business?
Naryu: Just passing through. You'd be surprised at just how useful random information about small towns or crafting techniques can be in my line of work.
Player: Is that all you're here to do?
Naryu: Such suspicion. Are you going to search me for weapons? You'll find some. But I doubt even you would confiscate all the knives I'm carrying. It may come as a shock to you, but I can do more than sneak around in the shadows.
Player: I'm surprised the Tribunal doesn't have more work for you.
Naryu: They might, but I've never been good at listening to what the Mehra's say. I like playing the s'wit, it means I can surprise them later. I never know where I'll be called to go. And I'd rather not become one of the Tribunal's toys.
Player: But you saved Vivec and Sotha Sil.
Naryu: Exactly. Which is one of the reasons I'm laying low and talking to all the wonderfully boring people here. I'll be in Mournhold again soon, but I want to give the Living Gods a chance to find new hobbies.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Naryu_Virian#Event_Dialogue

It makes no sense, really.

TaSheen

*sigh* Retcons.... ugh. I'm sure that there's some big "reveal" coming at some point. *shakes head*

chessalavakia_ESO

I believe the promotional material had Naryu interacting with Vivec

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Naryu_Virian#Event_Dialogue

In The Elder Scrolls Online: Morrowind Announcement Trailer, Naryu says the following:

Vivec: "What do you ask of me, assassin?"
Naryu Virian: "Sanction to execute the Grandmaster for his betrayal of the Order."
Vivec: "Hmm… granted."
Vivec: "Kill him somewhere out of the way to avoid questions."
Vivec: "Return swiftly Morag Tong, and bring any allies you meet… Morrowind has need of you all."

Syldras

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

Vivec: "Return swiftly Morag Tong, and bring any allies you meet… Morrowind has need of you all."

Even if it was given like that in one trailer, it's still a stretch so say she was the one who saved Vivec and Sotha Sil. I mean, was there any intervention from her during the main quest of Morrowind (I know in CWC she didn't show up at all)?

I know she helped freeing the player character from slavers if you started with a new character and played through the tutorial, but that did only apply to some players and it was only a minor role if you look at the whole picture. Even if it's acknowledged, wouldn't the player character rather say "But we saved Vivec and Sotha Sil"?

Faulgor

That makes me put all my eggs in the "Telvanni Isles are the next chapter" basket.

spartaxoxo

Between this and Blackwood's handling of the Dark Brotherhood. It feels like whoever is supposed to be keeping this stuff accurate is new or something.

Soarora

I'm glad that this is being mentioned because it bothered me as well.
I was going to say I'm pretty sure I haven't even met her, but I guess she was involved in Deshaan? I do not remember what the plot was but the wording of "saved Vivec and Sotha Sil" makes me think Morrowind and CWC not Deshaan.

Syldras

Okay, so there seems to be more on her involvements with Vivec in this text which was included as a book with the physical collector's edition of the Morrowind chapter only:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Naryu's_Journal
I don't have time to read it now (will look at it later). But I would find it very weird to - maybe - include knowledge from an external document into in-game dialogue, as there's no way the player character would be able to know about this, as it is never mentioned in-game, neither through in-game books nor through dialogue.

I rather think someone mixed things up in that new festival dialogue, although it's hard to understand how it's possible that something like that happens, as they for sure check everything on its congruency and lore-accurateness meticulously.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

<Heavy Sigh>

Guess another one goes on the pile

Lady_Sleepless

I was excited to see Naryu again, I think her addition to the festival was really nice.
But her dialogue makes no sense. I was so confused. Did she get hit on the head or something?

Syldras

Soarora wrote: »

I was going to say I'm pretty sure I haven't even met her, but I guess she was involved in Deshaan? I do not remember what the plot was but the wording of "saved Vivec and Sotha Sil" makes me think Morrowind and CWC not Deshaan.

In Deshaan it was about the Llodos plague, then she also had a short appearance at the Gold Coast in the Dark Brotherhood DLC, and on Vvardenfell there was a quest line in Balmora that didn't have anything to do with the Tribunal either.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Between this and Blackwood's handling of the Dark Brotherhood. It feels like whoever is supposed to be keeping this stuff accurate is new or something.

ESO had three different loremasters so far, Lawrence Schick until 2019, Leamon Tuttle (who had already been one of the principal writers for Morrowind and CWC) from 2019 to May 2022, and the new one is Michael Zenke, but he isn't a new team member either, but has been a writer for ESO since the very beginning, too. Also, they have a whole team of writers behind them, so you would assume it one person missed a mistake, someone else would most likely find it.

Faulgor wrote: »

That makes me put all my eggs in the "Telvanni Isles are the next chapter" basket.

Telvanni Isles or Peninsula? It's generally a region I'd be interested in, and there are a few characters whose return I'd really enjoy, although now I'm a bit worried about changes in their characterization (I already found Jakarn in High Isle very different to the way he had been portrayed before).

TiaFrye

This. And also the fact that both her and Raz seem to ignore Summerset MQ's existence. I imagine they would want each other dead for very different reason than the one spoken out by Raz.

Syldras wrote: »

(I already found Jakarn in High Isle very different to the way he had been portrayed before).

Classic "play in any order" stuff. Most of the characters are robbed of anything close to character arc they've had before because team wants you to play new content first if you're new player. It's depressing.

FluffyBird

Judging by how many times NPCs repeat what you need to do and where to meet them after in HI, it looks like devs just assume that average player has a memory of a goldfish and an attention span of a puppy. So, throw in anything into the dialogues, who would notice, right?

I miss those times where dialogues actially told you something interesting and were consistent with in-game events. Now it's Smolder Scrolls level of writing: flat, fanservice-ish, skippable (I don't skip though).

(yes, I'm very salty because I love TES universe, I love ESO and I hate things being dumbed down. WTB IQ slider in settings)

(I'm also salty because I had hopes for HI story, not high, not Orsinium level high, but still. But I'm just sitting there mildly bored like "evil guy is either this or that and let me on a volcano island, pls", even the plot being peppered with recurring characters doesn't really help)

(sorry for the rant)

colossalvoids

FluffyBird wrote: »

I miss those times where dialogues actially told you something interesting and were consistent with in-game events. Now it's Smolder Scrolls level of writing: flat, fanservice-ish, skippable (I don't skip though).

Sadly can only agree with that.

Jaimeh

Calling this to the attention of the devs @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom, this dialogue needs to be fixed.

RaddlemanNumber7

All I'm getting is Gwendis. I'd like to see Naryu, so I can stab her.

ZigoSid

Just got Naryu too and ... well you said it all.

So far I've also seen Razum Dar, Gwendis and the 2 guys from the Zenithar's public dungeon in Blackwood.

chessalavakia_ESO

Syldras wrote: »

Okay, so there seems to be more on her involvements with Vivec in this text which was included as a book with the physical collector's edition of the Morrowind chapter only:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Naryu's_Journal
I don't have time to read it now (will look at it later). But I would find it very weird to - maybe - include knowledge from an external document into in-game dialogue, as there's no way the player character would be able to know about this, as it is never mentioned in-game, neither through in-game books nor through dialogue.

I rather think someone mixed things up in that new festival dialogue, although it's hard to understand how it's possible that something like that happens, as they for sure check everything on its congruency and lore-accurateness meticulously.

Yeah, skimming this it does look like that is when she potentially helped Vivec/Sotha Sil.

Fenris_Arainai

Yeah, I was extremely [snip] when I saw that.

Looks like someone didn't do their homework properly, and assumed that if Naryu was in Morrowind, that automatically means she was involved in the main quest of the chapter. And by extension CWC.

Quite a serious boo-boo.

[edited for profanity bypass]

francesinhalover

reminds me of isobel saying i was a dark brotherhood assassin, when i didn't even tell her. and only did dbh for the executions and completion. It legit killed my whole role play, and blackwood just annoyed me. I AM NOT AN ASSASSIN. -.-"

I was happy on morrowind, because on the telvanni quest, the lizard lady asks you do kill someone and i'm all like, i'm not an assassin, gad it felt good.

sucks to have roleplay ignored

Faulgor

Syldras wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

I was going to say I'm pretty sure I haven't even met her, but I guess she was involved in Deshaan? I do not remember what the plot was but the wording of "saved Vivec and Sotha Sil" makes me think Morrowind and CWC not Deshaan.

In Deshaan it was about the Llodos plague, then she also had a short appearance at the Gold Coast in the Dark Brotherhood DLC, and on Vvardenfell there was a quest line in Balmora that didn't have anything to do with the Tribunal either.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Between this and Blackwood's handling of the Dark Brotherhood. It feels like whoever is supposed to be keeping this stuff accurate is new or something.

ESO had three different loremasters so far, Lawrence Schick until 2019, Leamon Tuttle (who had already been one of the principal writers for Morrowind and CWC) from 2019 to May 2022, and the new one is Michael Zenke, but he isn't a new team member either, but has been a writer for ESO since the very beginning, too. Also, they have a whole team of writers behind them, so you would assume it one person missed a mistake, someone else would most likely find it.

Faulgor wrote: »

That makes me put all my eggs in the "Telvanni Isles are the next chapter" basket.

Telvanni Isles or Peninsula? It's generally a region I'd be interested in, and there are a few characters whose return I'd really enjoy, although now I'm a bit worried about changes in their characterization (I already found Jakarn in High Isle very different to the way he had been portrayed before).

Yeah, Peninsula if you want to make the distinction. I think that's the one that was teased by one of the NPCs at the end of High Isle's main quest.
If it were up to me, there would be no returning characters. For years I wanted Eveli back, and that turned into a real monkey paw situation.

If we get to Telvanni lands, I hope they make it really unwelcoming to outsiders. Summerset was such a letdown in that regard. Telvanni value personal freedom very highly, so they probably wouldn't bother us that much, but I expect to be looked down upon and not even be welcomed to sweep someone's doorstep, Vekh damnit.

Artim_X

Wow that's dumb. I hope ZOS changes what the player says to something akin to, "but don't the Morag Tong serve the Morrowind government?" Or whatever fits the lore.

Syldras

TiaFrye wrote: »

Classic "play in any order" stuff. Most of the characters are robbed of anything close to character arc they've had before because team wants you to play new content first if you're new player. It's depressing.

I wouldn't even say it has to do with "play in any order" in Jakarn's case. He's just characterized completely differently this time. Formerly, he was flirty too, yes, but charming, eloquent and calculating, as it was clear that he uses flirting deliberately for his criminal activities. Now he's basically just sleazy and obtrusive and it is even shown that NPCs he hits on are annoyed of him.

Faulgor wrote: »

Yeah, Peninsula if you want to make the distinction.

Is it a big difference. The whole eastern part of Morrowind that "surrounds" Vvardenfell is the Telvanni Peninsula, as shown here:
https://imgur.com/utjISVg
While the Telvanni Isles are Telvanni territory only, the Peninsula also includes big settlements of other Great Houses, like the temple city of Necrom that is most likely affiliated with House Indoril.

Faulgor wrote: »

If it were up to me, there would be no returning characters. For years I wanted Eveli back, and that turned into a real monkey paw situation.

I'd rather think of smaller sidequests. If we really get a Telvanni chapter, I can't imagine they would not include Divayth Fyr, Revus Demnevanni and maybe Sun-in-Shadow. Although, no, probably not the last one. It would be interesting to see what she does now, but it would completely mess up her whole background story if a player played her quests in the wrong order.

Faulgor wrote: »

Telvanni value personal freedom very highly, so they probably wouldn't bother us that much, but I expect to be looked down upon and not even be welcomed to sweep someone's doorstep, Vekh damnit.

Do I want random n'wah in my tower? Definitively not. But they do make cheap mercenaries and errand boys (and I've heard that some consider them a field of research, but that's quite peculiar).

chessalavakia_ESO

Artim_X wrote: »

Wow that's dumb. I hope ZOS changes what the player says to something akin to, "but don't the Morag Tong serve the Morrowind government?" Or whatever fits the lore.

I believe the below is what the dialogue is about.

Spoilers for https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Naryu's_Journal

Sometime before the end of the Planemeld, Naryu uncovered a plot within the Morag Tong, which if achieved, would transform the Tong into more than a mere league of assassins, it would make them powerful enough to allow them to replace the heads of state that were once able to force them to go into hiding. It was known as the Simulacrum Rubric, named after one of the items they sought to obtain, Sotha Sil's Simulacrum Rubric. It was orchestrated by seven influential members of the Tong who called themselves the Seven Secretives. The plan involved a coordinated coup to take over the Tong, which Naryu would not allow happen.

Syldras

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

I believe the below is what the dialogue is about.

Spoilers for https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Naryu's_Journal

Sometime before the end of the Planemeld, Naryu uncovered a plot within the Morag Tong, which if achieved, would transform the Tong into more than a mere league of assassins, it would make them powerful enough to allow them to replace the heads of state that were once able to force them to go into hiding. It was known as the Simulacrum Rubric, named after one of the items they sought to obtain, Sotha Sil's Simulacrum Rubric. It was orchestrated by seven influential members of the Tong who called themselves the Seven Secretives. The plan involved a coordinated coup to take over the Tong, which Naryu would not allow happen.

I agree it's probably that, but it still makes no sense to include it in the new dialogue, as the player character has no chance to know about this. It's not mentioned anywhere within ESO, not notes or books, not through dialogue.

Marronsuisse

I guess my vestige kinda has a thing for Naryu. Maybe he's so overcome with worship that he's started attributing all his exploits to her in his head. And Naryu's just like "yep, that's how it happened".

Syldras wrote: »

Okay, so there seems to be more on her involvements with Vivec in this text which was included as a book with the physical collector's edition of the Morrowind chapter only:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Naryu's_Journal
I don't have time to read it now (will look at it later). But I would find it very weird to - maybe - include knowledge from an external document into in-game dialogue, as there's no way the player character would be able to know about this, as it is never mentioned in-game, neither through in-game books nor through dialogue.

The events in Naryu's journal are mostly politics; I don't think the conspiracy was a big threat to Vivec or Sotha Sil. Even if it was, I agree with you that they wouldn't casually reference some backstory lore (that's never mentioned anywhere in game afaik?) in an actual in-game conversation without some context, so it's obvious the Vestige is referring to the events in the Morrowind and Clockwork City DLCs.

Syldras

Marronsuisse wrote: »

I guess my vestige kinda has a thing for Naryu. Maybe he's so overcome with worship that he's started attributing all his exploits to her in his head. And Naryu's just like "yep, that's how it happened".

That's the only reasonable explanation, but I'd rather choose myself how my character feels about Naryu

Marronsuisse wrote: »

The events in Naryu's journal are mostly politics; I don't think the conspiracy was a big threat to Vivec or Sotha Sil. Even if it was, I agree with you that they wouldn't casually reference some backstory lore (that's never mentioned anywhere in game afaik?) in an actual in-game conversation without some context, so it's obvious the Vestige is referring to the events in the Morrowind and Clockwork City DLCs.

It's really never mentioned anywhere else, only in that text that was included as a printed book with the Morrowind collector's edition (and hinted on in one game trailer, although there's no explanation either, other than Vivec condoning Naryu killing "the Grandmaster for his betrayal of the Order" without any context at all). I'm really not sure what happened here other than that something must have been mixed up badly.

I_killed_Vivec

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

All I'm getting is Gwendis. I'd like to see Naryu, so I can stab her.

I see Eveli. I'd like to see Naryu to share that bubble-bath she promised...

cyclonus11

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

All I'm getting is Gwendis. I'd like to see Naryu, so I can stab her.

I've only seen Raz and Eveli. Raz mentions that he's hiding from Naryu, but I haven't been able to find her. The area reloads each time you zone in with a different set of NPCs, but so far I've seen Raz once and Eveli three times.