Frozen Gate and Morphs. Can we take another look at them?

MindOfTheSwarm

Now that Frost Clench provides Major Maim I feel that Device has lost much of its appeal. Yes, it can pull mobs which is great but Frost tanks tend to run an Ice Staff on the backbar at the very least.

Frozen Retreat however sees almost zero use even in PvP as players simply don’t bother activating the synergy.

Now I actually don’t mind Retreat. It’s a great idea, but it’s not enough to convince most players to choose this morph over Device which has been been a little redundant with Clench providing the same debuff easier.

I would propose a rework on both morphs.

Retreat:

Keep the synergy as even though most players never activate it in PvP, good players still do. But give it something a little extra for PvE.

Device:

Rework into a single gate that loses the pull but instead remains as a strong snare while also applying some kind of debuff to enemies.
Alternatively it could be another ground DoT but for significantly less damage than Winter’s Revenge yet have an Execute component to it causing it to deal more damage as enemies lose health. For example it could deal a quarter of what Winter’s Revenge does now but it’s damage does up to 500% more damage to enemies under 100% health. This would mean it would not surpass Winter’s Revenge until about 40% health.

ESO_Nightingale

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Now that Frost Clench provides Major Maim I feel that Device has lost much of its appeal. Yes, it can pull mobs which is great but Frost tanks tend to run an Ice Staff on the backbar at the very least.

Frozen Retreat however sees almost zero use even in PvP as players simply don’t bother activating the synergy.

Now I actually don’t mind Retreat. It’s a great idea, but it’s not enough to convince most players to choose this morph over Device which has been been a little redundant with Clench providing the same debuff easier.

I would propose a rework on both morphs.

Retreat:

Keep the synergy as even though most players never activate it in PvP, good players still do. But give it something a little extra for PvE.

Device:

Rework into a single gate that loses the pull but instead remains as a strong snare while also applying some kind of debuff to enemies.
Alternatively it could be another ground DoT but for significantly less damage than Winter’s Revenge yet have an Execute component to it causing it to deal more damage as enemies lose health. For example it could deal a quarter of what Winter’s Revenge does now but it’s damage does up to 500% more damage to enemies under 100% health. This would mean it would not surpass Winter’s Revenge until about 40% health.

Maybe it should have a passive slotted effect for tanks, while frozen retreat should be reworked to be for dps, while getting some frost dps related passive.

MindOfTheSwarm

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Now that Frost Clench provides Major Maim I feel that Device has lost much of its appeal. Yes, it can pull mobs which is great but Frost tanks tend to run an Ice Staff on the backbar at the very least.

Frozen Retreat however sees almost zero use even in PvP as players simply don’t bother activating the synergy.

Now I actually don’t mind Retreat. It’s a great idea, but it’s not enough to convince most players to choose this morph over Device which has been been a little redundant with Clench providing the same debuff easier.

I would propose a rework on both morphs.

Retreat:

Keep the synergy as even though most players never activate it in PvP, good players still do. But give it something a little extra for PvE.

Device:

Rework into a single gate that loses the pull but instead remains as a strong snare while also applying some kind of debuff to enemies.
Alternatively it could be another ground DoT but for significantly less damage than Winter’s Revenge yet have an Execute component to it causing it to deal more damage as enemies lose health. For example it could deal a quarter of what Winter’s Revenge does now but it’s damage does up to 500% more damage to enemies under 100% health. This would mean it would not surpass Winter’s Revenge until about 40% health.

Maybe it should have a passive slotted effect for tanks, while frozen retreat should be reworked to be for dps, while getting some frost dps related passive.

I would keep retreat as is. It is still good for PvP despite players never using it.

One option for Device, would be similar to what I suggested above, except make it a single AoE that remains for like 14 seconds and applies a 50% snare, and applies Chilled every second to enemies in its area. So no direct damage, but the Chilled proc every second would mean it acts like a pseudo-DoT. Benefitting tanks, healers and DD's. But losing its ability to pull mobs and its burst damage as a trade off.

Like This:

Frozen Device:

No longer pulls enemies or deals damage. Instead remains active for 14 seconds, applying Chilled every second to enemies in its area and snaring them by 50%. Radius increased by 2 meters.

ESO_Nightingale

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Now that Frost Clench provides Major Maim I feel that Device has lost much of its appeal. Yes, it can pull mobs which is great but Frost tanks tend to run an Ice Staff on the backbar at the very least.

Frozen Retreat however sees almost zero use even in PvP as players simply don’t bother activating the synergy.

Now I actually don’t mind Retreat. It’s a great idea, but it’s not enough to convince most players to choose this morph over Device which has been been a little redundant with Clench providing the same debuff easier.

I would propose a rework on both morphs.

Retreat:

Keep the synergy as even though most players never activate it in PvP, good players still do. But give it something a little extra for PvE.

Device:

Rework into a single gate that loses the pull but instead remains as a strong snare while also applying some kind of debuff to enemies.
Alternatively it could be another ground DoT but for significantly less damage than Winter’s Revenge yet have an Execute component to it causing it to deal more damage as enemies lose health. For example it could deal a quarter of what Winter’s Revenge does now but it’s damage does up to 500% more damage to enemies under 100% health. This would mean it would not surpass Winter’s Revenge until about 40% health.

Maybe it should have a passive slotted effect for tanks, while frozen retreat should be reworked to be for dps, while getting some frost dps related passive.

I would keep retreat as is. It is still good for PvP despite players never using it.

One option for Device, would be similar to what I suggested above, except make it a single AoE that remains for like 14 seconds and applies a 50% snare, and applies Chilled every second to enemies in its area. So no direct damage, but the Chilled proc every second would mean it acts like a pseudo-DoT. Benefitting tanks, healers and DD's. But losing its ability to pull mobs and its burst damage as a trade off.

Like This:

Frozen Device:

No longer pulls enemies or deals damage. Instead remains active for 14 seconds, applying Chilled every second to enemies in its area and snaring them by 50%. Radius increased by 2 meters.

i see no reason to use a skill like that to be honest. it'd be better with a 14s frost DoT.

MindOfTheSwarm

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Now that Frost Clench provides Major Maim I feel that Device has lost much of its appeal. Yes, it can pull mobs which is great but Frost tanks tend to run an Ice Staff on the backbar at the very least.

Frozen Retreat however sees almost zero use even in PvP as players simply don’t bother activating the synergy.

Now I actually don’t mind Retreat. It’s a great idea, but it’s not enough to convince most players to choose this morph over Device which has been been a little redundant with Clench providing the same debuff easier.

I would propose a rework on both morphs.

Retreat:

Keep the synergy as even though most players never activate it in PvP, good players still do. But give it something a little extra for PvE.

Device:

Rework into a single gate that loses the pull but instead remains as a strong snare while also applying some kind of debuff to enemies.
Alternatively it could be another ground DoT but for significantly less damage than Winter’s Revenge yet have an Execute component to it causing it to deal more damage as enemies lose health. For example it could deal a quarter of what Winter’s Revenge does now but it’s damage does up to 500% more damage to enemies under 100% health. This would mean it would not surpass Winter’s Revenge until about 40% health.

Maybe it should have a passive slotted effect for tanks, while frozen retreat should be reworked to be for dps, while getting some frost dps related passive.

I would keep retreat as is. It is still good for PvP despite players never using it.

One option for Device, would be similar to what I suggested above, except make it a single AoE that remains for like 14 seconds and applies a 50% snare, and applies Chilled every second to enemies in its area. So no direct damage, but the Chilled proc every second would mean it acts like a pseudo-DoT. Benefitting tanks, healers and DD's. But losing its ability to pull mobs and its burst damage as a trade off.

Like This:

Frozen Device:

No longer pulls enemies or deals damage. Instead remains active for 14 seconds, applying Chilled every second to enemies in its area and snaring them by 50%. Radius increased by 2 meters.

i see no reason to use a skill like that to be honest. it'd be better with a 14s frost DoT.

But it's effectively the same thing. The advantage is 100% uptime on Chilled for enemies the AOE, which mean 100% uptime on Brittle if you're holding a Frost staff. It is a win/win. Having it as a regular DoT would be no different to Winter's Revenge.

ESO_Nightingale

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Now that Frost Clench provides Major Maim I feel that Device has lost much of its appeal. Yes, it can pull mobs which is great but Frost tanks tend to run an Ice Staff on the backbar at the very least.

Frozen Retreat however sees almost zero use even in PvP as players simply don’t bother activating the synergy.

Now I actually don’t mind Retreat. It’s a great idea, but it’s not enough to convince most players to choose this morph over Device which has been been a little redundant with Clench providing the same debuff easier.

I would propose a rework on both morphs.

Retreat:

Keep the synergy as even though most players never activate it in PvP, good players still do. But give it something a little extra for PvE.

Device:

Rework into a single gate that loses the pull but instead remains as a strong snare while also applying some kind of debuff to enemies.
Alternatively it could be another ground DoT but for significantly less damage than Winter’s Revenge yet have an Execute component to it causing it to deal more damage as enemies lose health. For example it could deal a quarter of what Winter’s Revenge does now but it’s damage does up to 500% more damage to enemies under 100% health. This would mean it would not surpass Winter’s Revenge until about 40% health.

Maybe it should have a passive slotted effect for tanks, while frozen retreat should be reworked to be for dps, while getting some frost dps related passive.

I would keep retreat as is. It is still good for PvP despite players never using it.

One option for Device, would be similar to what I suggested above, except make it a single AoE that remains for like 14 seconds and applies a 50% snare, and applies Chilled every second to enemies in its area. So no direct damage, but the Chilled proc every second would mean it acts like a pseudo-DoT. Benefitting tanks, healers and DD's. But losing its ability to pull mobs and its burst damage as a trade off.

Like This:

Frozen Device:

No longer pulls enemies or deals damage. Instead remains active for 14 seconds, applying Chilled every second to enemies in its area and snaring them by 50%. Radius increased by 2 meters.

i see no reason to use a skill like that to be honest. it'd be better with a 14s frost DoT.

But it's effectively the same thing. The advantage is 100% uptime on Chilled for enemies the AOE, which mean 100% uptime on Brittle if you're holding a Frost staff. It is a win/win. Having it as a regular DoT would be no different to Winter's Revenge.

it eases the uptime of chilled for non dps though, not sure if i'm a fan of that tbh. we're already struggling to stay relevant as is. it's also not that good of a tooltip. it's fairly weak.

MindOfTheSwarm

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Now that Frost Clench provides Major Maim I feel that Device has lost much of its appeal. Yes, it can pull mobs which is great but Frost tanks tend to run an Ice Staff on the backbar at the very least.

Frozen Retreat however sees almost zero use even in PvP as players simply don’t bother activating the synergy.

Now I actually don’t mind Retreat. It’s a great idea, but it’s not enough to convince most players to choose this morph over Device which has been been a little redundant with Clench providing the same debuff easier.

I would propose a rework on both morphs.

Retreat:

Keep the synergy as even though most players never activate it in PvP, good players still do. But give it something a little extra for PvE.

Device:

Rework into a single gate that loses the pull but instead remains as a strong snare while also applying some kind of debuff to enemies.
Alternatively it could be another ground DoT but for significantly less damage than Winter’s Revenge yet have an Execute component to it causing it to deal more damage as enemies lose health. For example it could deal a quarter of what Winter’s Revenge does now but it’s damage does up to 500% more damage to enemies under 100% health. This would mean it would not surpass Winter’s Revenge until about 40% health.

Maybe it should have a passive slotted effect for tanks, while frozen retreat should be reworked to be for dps, while getting some frost dps related passive.

I would keep retreat as is. It is still good for PvP despite players never using it.

One option for Device, would be similar to what I suggested above, except make it a single AoE that remains for like 14 seconds and applies a 50% snare, and applies Chilled every second to enemies in its area. So no direct damage, but the Chilled proc every second would mean it acts like a pseudo-DoT. Benefitting tanks, healers and DD's. But losing its ability to pull mobs and its burst damage as a trade off.

Like This:

Frozen Device:

No longer pulls enemies or deals damage. Instead remains active for 14 seconds, applying Chilled every second to enemies in its area and snaring them by 50%. Radius increased by 2 meters.

i see no reason to use a skill like that to be honest. it'd be better with a 14s frost DoT.

But it's effectively the same thing. The advantage is 100% uptime on Chilled for enemies the AOE, which mean 100% uptime on Brittle if you're holding a Frost staff. It is a win/win. Having it as a regular DoT would be no different to Winter's Revenge.

it eases the uptime of chilled for non dps though, not sure if i'm a fan of that tbh. we're already struggling to stay relevant as is. it's also not that good of a tooltip. it's fairly weak.

Chilled isn’t weak if you can proc it regularly.

ESO_Nightingale

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Now that Frost Clench provides Major Maim I feel that Device has lost much of its appeal. Yes, it can pull mobs which is great but Frost tanks tend to run an Ice Staff on the backbar at the very least.

Frozen Retreat however sees almost zero use even in PvP as players simply don’t bother activating the synergy.

Now I actually don’t mind Retreat. It’s a great idea, but it’s not enough to convince most players to choose this morph over Device which has been been a little redundant with Clench providing the same debuff easier.

I would propose a rework on both morphs.

Retreat:

Keep the synergy as even though most players never activate it in PvP, good players still do. But give it something a little extra for PvE.

Device:

Rework into a single gate that loses the pull but instead remains as a strong snare while also applying some kind of debuff to enemies.
Alternatively it could be another ground DoT but for significantly less damage than Winter’s Revenge yet have an Execute component to it causing it to deal more damage as enemies lose health. For example it could deal a quarter of what Winter’s Revenge does now but it’s damage does up to 500% more damage to enemies under 100% health. This would mean it would not surpass Winter’s Revenge until about 40% health.

Maybe it should have a passive slotted effect for tanks, while frozen retreat should be reworked to be for dps, while getting some frost dps related passive.

I would keep retreat as is. It is still good for PvP despite players never using it.

One option for Device, would be similar to what I suggested above, except make it a single AoE that remains for like 14 seconds and applies a 50% snare, and applies Chilled every second to enemies in its area. So no direct damage, but the Chilled proc every second would mean it acts like a pseudo-DoT. Benefitting tanks, healers and DD's. But losing its ability to pull mobs and its burst damage as a trade off.

Like This:

Frozen Device:

No longer pulls enemies or deals damage. Instead remains active for 14 seconds, applying Chilled every second to enemies in its area and snaring them by 50%. Radius increased by 2 meters.

i see no reason to use a skill like that to be honest. it'd be better with a 14s frost DoT.

But it's effectively the same thing. The advantage is 100% uptime on Chilled for enemies the AOE, which mean 100% uptime on Brittle if you're holding a Frost staff. It is a win/win. Having it as a regular DoT would be no different to Winter's Revenge.

it eases the uptime of chilled for non dps though, not sure if i'm a fan of that tbh. we're already struggling to stay relevant as is. it's also not that good of a tooltip. it's fairly weak.

Chilled isn’t weak if you can proc it regularly.

but why does it have to be chilled? all a skill like this does is further invalidate frost dps. it should just be a unique frost DoT. besides, we also have winter's revenge doing more chilled application anyway. we don't need 4390584 sources of extra chilled application, i think we just need more bonuses based around regular application of it.

MindOfTheSwarm

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Now that Frost Clench provides Major Maim I feel that Device has lost much of its appeal. Yes, it can pull mobs which is great but Frost tanks tend to run an Ice Staff on the backbar at the very least.

Frozen Retreat however sees almost zero use even in PvP as players simply don’t bother activating the synergy.

Now I actually don’t mind Retreat. It’s a great idea, but it’s not enough to convince most players to choose this morph over Device which has been been a little redundant with Clench providing the same debuff easier.

I would propose a rework on both morphs.

Retreat:

Keep the synergy as even though most players never activate it in PvP, good players still do. But give it something a little extra for PvE.

Device:

Rework into a single gate that loses the pull but instead remains as a strong snare while also applying some kind of debuff to enemies.
Alternatively it could be another ground DoT but for significantly less damage than Winter’s Revenge yet have an Execute component to it causing it to deal more damage as enemies lose health. For example it could deal a quarter of what Winter’s Revenge does now but it’s damage does up to 500% more damage to enemies under 100% health. This would mean it would not surpass Winter’s Revenge until about 40% health.

Maybe it should have a passive slotted effect for tanks, while frozen retreat should be reworked to be for dps, while getting some frost dps related passive.

I would keep retreat as is. It is still good for PvP despite players never using it.

One option for Device, would be similar to what I suggested above, except make it a single AoE that remains for like 14 seconds and applies a 50% snare, and applies Chilled every second to enemies in its area. So no direct damage, but the Chilled proc every second would mean it acts like a pseudo-DoT. Benefitting tanks, healers and DD's. But losing its ability to pull mobs and its burst damage as a trade off.

Like This:

Frozen Device:

No longer pulls enemies or deals damage. Instead remains active for 14 seconds, applying Chilled every second to enemies in its area and snaring them by 50%. Radius increased by 2 meters.

i see no reason to use a skill like that to be honest. it'd be better with a 14s frost DoT.

But it's effectively the same thing. The advantage is 100% uptime on Chilled for enemies the AOE, which mean 100% uptime on Brittle if you're holding a Frost staff. It is a win/win. Having it as a regular DoT would be no different to Winter's Revenge.

it eases the uptime of chilled for non dps though, not sure if i'm a fan of that tbh. we're already struggling to stay relevant as is. it's also not that good of a tooltip. it's fairly weak.

Chilled isn’t weak if you can proc it regularly.

but why does it have to be chilled? all a skill like this does is further invalidate frost dps. it should just be a unique frost DoT.

But it is a Frost DoT in practice. Chilled being applied every second means that the hit that comes with Chill hits every second. It is a literal DoT but with additional functionality. There is no way it should be DoT like Winter or Wall, otherwise it is simply a clone of those skills. Having it apply Chill every second means that yes, it does less damage per tick than a dedicated DoT, but with the advantage of 100% uptime on Chill. That's very powerful and totally viable for a DD as well as a tank.

Also, it is still a tank line skill, having it serve as a regular DoT takes away from Tanks, which is not fair. Why should they lose out? Having it apply Chilled every second is a win win for all builds while maintaining its utility nature. It still acts as a DoT. Chill on my toons hits for about 800 or 1500 on a Critical hit, having that hit every second guaranteed on a single skill isn't bad, especially when you factor in the Brittle, maim and snare as well as the fact that your other sources of Chill will be dealing damage as well.

ESO_Nightingale

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Now that Frost Clench provides Major Maim I feel that Device has lost much of its appeal. Yes, it can pull mobs which is great but Frost tanks tend to run an Ice Staff on the backbar at the very least.

Frozen Retreat however sees almost zero use even in PvP as players simply don’t bother activating the synergy.

Now I actually don’t mind Retreat. It’s a great idea, but it’s not enough to convince most players to choose this morph over Device which has been been a little redundant with Clench providing the same debuff easier.

I would propose a rework on both morphs.

Retreat:

Keep the synergy as even though most players never activate it in PvP, good players still do. But give it something a little extra for PvE.

Device:

Rework into a single gate that loses the pull but instead remains as a strong snare while also applying some kind of debuff to enemies.
Alternatively it could be another ground DoT but for significantly less damage than Winter’s Revenge yet have an Execute component to it causing it to deal more damage as enemies lose health. For example it could deal a quarter of what Winter’s Revenge does now but it’s damage does up to 500% more damage to enemies under 100% health. This would mean it would not surpass Winter’s Revenge until about 40% health.

Maybe it should have a passive slotted effect for tanks, while frozen retreat should be reworked to be for dps, while getting some frost dps related passive.

I would keep retreat as is. It is still good for PvP despite players never using it.

One option for Device, would be similar to what I suggested above, except make it a single AoE that remains for like 14 seconds and applies a 50% snare, and applies Chilled every second to enemies in its area. So no direct damage, but the Chilled proc every second would mean it acts like a pseudo-DoT. Benefitting tanks, healers and DD's. But losing its ability to pull mobs and its burst damage as a trade off.

Like This:

Frozen Device:

No longer pulls enemies or deals damage. Instead remains active for 14 seconds, applying Chilled every second to enemies in its area and snaring them by 50%. Radius increased by 2 meters.

i see no reason to use a skill like that to be honest. it'd be better with a 14s frost DoT.

But it's effectively the same thing. The advantage is 100% uptime on Chilled for enemies the AOE, which mean 100% uptime on Brittle if you're holding a Frost staff. It is a win/win. Having it as a regular DoT would be no different to Winter's Revenge.

it eases the uptime of chilled for non dps though, not sure if i'm a fan of that tbh. we're already struggling to stay relevant as is. it's also not that good of a tooltip. it's fairly weak.

Chilled isn’t weak if you can proc it regularly.

but why does it have to be chilled? all a skill like this does is further invalidate frost dps. it should just be a unique frost DoT.

But it is a Frost DoT in practice. Chilled being applied every second means that the hit that comes with Chill hits every second. It is a literal DoT but with additional functionality. There is no way it should be DoT like Winter or Wall, otherwise it is simply a clone of those skills. Having it apply Chill every second means that yes, it does less damage per tick than a dedicated DoT, but with the advantage of 100% uptime on Chill. That's very powerful and totally viable for a DD as well as a tank.

Also, it is still a tank line skill, having it serve as a regular DoT takes away from Tanks, which is not fair. Why should they lose out? Having it apply Chilled every second is a win win for all builds while maintaining its utility nature. It still acts as a DoT. Chill on my toons hits for about 800 or 1500 on a Critical hit, having that hit every second guaranteed on a single skill isn't bad, especially when you factor in the Brittle, maim and snare as well as the fact that your other sources of Chill will be dealing damage as well.

having a non-ultimate winter's embrace skill that just continuously applies chilled defeats the purpose of both glacial presence and impaling shards, which already has a tank morph, it's also not really enough to warrent it's use for pve dps either. you're already applying chilled a ton anyway, and if it's effectively supposed to be a DoT, you're just wasting a slot on a worse dot. a skill that just constantly applies chilled isn't good for dps. the only reason i can see it being used is to give support and tank more chilled application, and by having a look at the design again, i actually don't even think it'd be good enough for tanks to run because other than applying chilled every second it just provides a snare. impaling shards is way better at doing that, and then there's skills like frost clench or a frost enchant which they'll just run anyway. No, it should give a bonus to chilled, probably it's damage, like an execute while slotted, or maybe it should make chilled execute while active, or something to that effect. it's actually not powerful enough to be worth a slot at the moment.