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With Fourth Quarter, I hope we get to see lore on these obscure Breton deities from TES 2.

Thevampirenight
Thevampirenight
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Lorewise, its made very clear that at some point the Bretons were forced to covert to strictly the Eight DIvines by the Imperials, its why we see them following the Imperial Pantheon of Gods.
However by TES 2, they worshiped other gods.
The Most Famous one is Sethite, a deity that had a temple in Camlorn, and I'm hoping sees an inclusion in some form of fringe revival cult. That we learn who this deity actually is and what he represents.

Vigryl, he is the sea god, and the only god who is an actual sea god otherwise TES rather lacks Sea God lore. Now in ESO Herma Mora, turned more into a sea god like Vigyrl in some of their newer lore, and has has similar attributes like controlling the tides so maybe they can connect the two. Vigryl is also known as the Tide King and he is prayed to, for better weather conditions by the Bretons. I'm hoping we can get a lot more lore about this deity as we could use some Sea Deity lore.

Notorgo is more like Hermes of Greek Mythology in that he is the messenger god otherwise nothing else is known about him.

Q'Olwen is the deity of those who are in pursuit of Lore, that is all that is known about this deity. It would be nice if we could learn more about him.

Raen is the breton god of Agriculture, now this diety could be compared to the Redguards Zeht, in fact it would be interesting if he is connected or the same deity as Zeht except more of a Breton aspect of said deity. Easily can do that with him and make his lore interesting as well. Since they basically share the same sphere.

Druagaa is the goddess of flowers, her worship eventually dies out all together lorewise, however a festival is still dedicated to her in the future.

Edited by Psiion on June 30, 2022 2:39AM
PC NA
Please add Fangs to Vampires.
  • Psiion
    Psiion
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    Greetings,

    As this thread is in regards to Lore in game, we've gone ahead and moved it to the Lore sections of the forums as it is better fit there.
    Staff Post
  • Ratzkifal
    Ratzkifal
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    The lore has sort of evolved past a lot of these, so I'm not sure what you are actually expecting here.

    It would be cool if they gave the Daggerfall lore a nod and made these patron saints or minor gods (Magna-Ge, minor moons etc) in the mainstream religion so that they are not forgotten, still see some worship, but don't need to fit into the greater cosmology like the other divines have to.

    Also it's more likely the Direnni forced their religion onto the Bretons and they later adapted it because the Imperials wouldn't have introduced Y'ffre to them and the Aldmer pantheon is otherwise pretty much the same as the Imperial one. The only notable differences are Xarxes replacing Arkay (because elves think mortality sucks), Magnus being worshipped over Julianos (because why worship the god of magic when you can worship the source of magic), Y'ffre replacing Dibella (weird, but nature's beauty vs artistic beauty perhaps), and Auriel being a slightly more anti human version of Akatosh that merely felt it was unnecessary to kill all the humans at this point while Akatosh actually cares about humanity like they are his children. And Trinimac sort of appears in other religions too, just not as a divine but rather as a Daedra antagonist, which also makes sense for the humans as Trinimac fought against them. The rest of the Aldmer gods are just hero-ancestors that have been deified, although the Aldmer think of all the divines as their ancestors so it's clear why they would blur the line there.

    It would really throw a wrench into all of this if we added some random Breton exclusive gods as well, as the cosmology makes sense right now.

    That isn't to say this couldn't happen, but it would be a monumental task to flesh all of these out enough and make them work, so I would suggest not putting them on the same level as the divines but maybe several levels lower, like the Wilderking or the Tribunal at best.
    This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.
  • BlissfulDeluge
    BlissfulDeluge
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    Bretonic religion needs a complete facelift, imo. I'd love to see The Light and the Dark be revamped into a more skeptical/rationalistic telling of how the Aurbis came to be.

    But yes, seeing the TES2 pantheon be revitalized would be amazing.
    Former completionist with all achievements unlocked up until Update 29 (Flames of Ambition). Avid RPer, writer, and former Breton lover. Then Legacy of the Bretons was released and I realized just how boring and uninspired the Bretons are according to the writers.
  • Aliyavana
    Aliyavana
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    Ratzkifal wrote: »
    The lore has sort of evolved past a lot of these, so I'm not sure what you are actually expecting here.

    It would be cool if they gave the Daggerfall lore a nod and made these patron saints or minor gods (Magna-Ge, minor moons etc) in the mainstream religion so that they are not forgotten, still see some worship, but don't need to fit into the greater cosmology like the other divines have to.

    Also it's more likely the Direnni forced their religion onto the Bretons and they later adapted it because the Imperials wouldn't have introduced Y'ffre to them and the Aldmer pantheon is otherwise pretty much the same as the Imperial one. The only notable differences are Xarxes replacing Arkay (because elves think mortality sucks), Magnus being worshipped over Julianos (because why worship the god of magic when you can worship the source of magic), Y'ffre replacing Dibella (weird, but nature's beauty vs artistic beauty perhaps), and Auriel being a slightly more anti human version of Akatosh that merely felt it was unnecessary to kill all the humans at this point while Akatosh actually cares about humanity like they are his children. And Trinimac sort of appears in other religions too, just not as a divine but rather as a Daedra antagonist, which also makes sense for the humans as Trinimac fought against them. The rest of the Aldmer gods are just hero-ancestors that have been deified, although the Aldmer think of all the divines as their ancestors so it's clear why they would blur the line there.

    It would really throw a wrench into all of this if we added some random Breton exclusive gods as well, as the cosmology makes sense right now.

    That isn't to say this couldn't happen, but it would be a monumental task to flesh all of these out enough and make them work, so I would suggest not putting them on the same level as the divines but maybe several levels lower, like the Wilderking or the Tribunal at best.

    A simple mention with a few lines could work wonders. Think a book along the lines of https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Spirits_of_Amun-dro would be amazing for breton lore.

    If these are old gods, they could be something like Druids of Galen era gods.

    It beats even more worshipped entities like Una the Green Elk being introduced, and instead these old ones being expanded upon.
    Edited by Aliyavana on June 30, 2022 9:39AM
  • Eporem
    Eporem
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    Lorewise, its made very clear that at some point the Bretons were forced to covert to strictly the Eight DIvines by the Imperials, its why we see them following the Imperial Pantheon of Gods.
    However by TES 2, they worshiped other gods.
    The Most Famous one is Sethite, a deity that had a temple in Camlorn, and I'm hoping sees an inclusion in some form of fringe revival cult. That we learn who this deity actually is and what he represents.

    Vigryl, he is the sea god, and the only god who is an actual sea god otherwise TES rather lacks Sea God lore. Now in ESO Herma Mora, turned more into a sea god like Vigyrl in some of their newer lore, and has has similar attributes like controlling the tides so maybe they can connect the two. Vigryl is also known as the Tide King and he is prayed to, for better weather conditions by the Bretons. I'm hoping we can get a lot more lore about this deity as we could use some Sea Deity lore.

    Notorgo is more like Hermes of Greek Mythology in that he is the messenger god otherwise nothing else is known about him.

    Q'Olwen is the deity of those who are in pursuit of Lore, that is all that is known about this deity. It would be nice if we could learn more about him.

    Raen is the breton god of Agriculture, now this diety could be compared to the Redguards Zeht, in fact it would be interesting if he is connected or the same deity as Zeht except more of a Breton aspect of said deity. Easily can do that with him and make his lore interesting as well. Since they basically share the same sphere.

    Druagaa is the goddess of flowers, her worship eventually dies out all together lorewise, however a festival is still dedicated to her in the future.

    In Gonfalon Bay there are two statues on pedestals of Waves, one I believe to know as Kynareth, though she holds a boat, not a bird, the other holds a scroll and a shield with an image of an Octopus - could this then be Vigryl, the sea god you have mentioned.

    SHnqkec.jpg
  • Aliyavana
    Aliyavana
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    Eporem wrote: »
    Lorewise, its made very clear that at some point the Bretons were forced to covert to strictly the Eight DIvines by the Imperials, its why we see them following the Imperial Pantheon of Gods.
    However by TES 2, they worshiped other gods.
    The Most Famous one is Sethite, a deity that had a temple in Camlorn, and I'm hoping sees an inclusion in some form of fringe revival cult. That we learn who this deity actually is and what he represents.

    Vigryl, he is the sea god, and the only god who is an actual sea god otherwise TES rather lacks Sea God lore. Now in ESO Herma Mora, turned more into a sea god like Vigyrl in some of their newer lore, and has has similar attributes like controlling the tides so maybe they can connect the two. Vigryl is also known as the Tide King and he is prayed to, for better weather conditions by the Bretons. I'm hoping we can get a lot more lore about this deity as we could use some Sea Deity lore.

    Notorgo is more like Hermes of Greek Mythology in that he is the messenger god otherwise nothing else is known about him.

    Q'Olwen is the deity of those who are in pursuit of Lore, that is all that is known about this deity. It would be nice if we could learn more about him.

    Raen is the breton god of Agriculture, now this diety could be compared to the Redguards Zeht, in fact it would be interesting if he is connected or the same deity as Zeht except more of a Breton aspect of said deity. Easily can do that with him and make his lore interesting as well. Since they basically share the same sphere.

    Druagaa is the goddess of flowers, her worship eventually dies out all together lorewise, however a festival is still dedicated to her in the future.

    In Gonfalon Bay there are two statues on pedestals of Waves, one I believe to know as Kynareth, though she holds a boat, not a bird, the other holds a scroll and a shield with an image of an Octopus - could this then be Vigryl, the sea god you have mentioned.

    SHnqkec.jpg

    i believe that is lady garrick, even if her shield is depicted differently
    Edited by Aliyavana on July 5, 2022 12:59PM
  • KingArthasMenethil
    KingArthasMenethil
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    Bretonic religion needs a complete facelift, imo. I'd love to see The Light and the Dark be revamped into a more skeptical/rationalistic telling of how the Aurbis came to be.

    But yes, seeing the TES2 pantheon be revitalized would be amazing.

    Non-Daedric religions need a facelift in general since TES neglects them heavily. This year should've been a way to expand on Breton religion but will have to wait for Q4 given how Q4 tends to be the lore heavy one
    EU 2000+ CP
    Characters
    Gaius Sulla 50 Cyrodiil DragonKnight.
    Livia Sulla 50 Cyrodiil Nightblade.
    Divayth-Fyr 50 Dunmer Sorcerer.
    Ragnar Shatter-Shield 50 Nord Dragonknight.
    Selvia Sulla 50 Cyrodiil Templar.
    Attrebus Mede 50 Cyrodiil Warden.
    Zirath Urivith 50 Dunmer Dragonknight.
    Dame Edwinna Gelas 50 Breton Dragonknight.
    Agrippina Tharn 50 Cyrodiil Necromancer.
    Bedal Dren 50 Dunmer Dragonknight.
  • Eporem
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    who might Lady Garrick be @Aliyavana - I did do a little search but did not find mention of her - who would have built a statue commemorating her in High Isle.
  • Aliyavana
    Aliyavana
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    Eporem wrote: »
    who might Lady Garrick be @Aliyavana - I did do a little search but did not find mention of her - who would have built a statue commemorating her in High Isle.

    You can find out more about her in Garick's Rest in High Isle
  • Aliyavana
    Aliyavana
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    Eporem wrote: »
    Lorewise, its made very clear that at some point the Bretons were forced to covert to strictly the Eight DIvines by the Imperials, its why we see them following the Imperial Pantheon of Gods.
    However by TES 2, they worshiped other gods.
    The Most Famous one is Sethite, a deity that had a temple in Camlorn, and I'm hoping sees an inclusion in some form of fringe revival cult. That we learn who this deity actually is and what he represents.

    Vigryl, he is the sea god, and the only god who is an actual sea god otherwise TES rather lacks Sea God lore. Now in ESO Herma Mora, turned more into a sea god like Vigyrl in some of their newer lore, and has has similar attributes like controlling the tides so maybe they can connect the two. Vigryl is also known as the Tide King and he is prayed to, for better weather conditions by the Bretons. I'm hoping we can get a lot more lore about this deity as we could use some Sea Deity lore.

    Notorgo is more like Hermes of Greek Mythology in that he is the messenger god otherwise nothing else is known about him.

    Q'Olwen is the deity of those who are in pursuit of Lore, that is all that is known about this deity. It would be nice if we could learn more about him.

    Raen is the breton god of Agriculture, now this diety could be compared to the Redguards Zeht, in fact it would be interesting if he is connected or the same deity as Zeht except more of a Breton aspect of said deity. Easily can do that with him and make his lore interesting as well. Since they basically share the same sphere.

    Druagaa is the goddess of flowers, her worship eventually dies out all together lorewise, however a festival is still dedicated to her in the future.

    In Gonfalon Bay there are two statues on pedestals of Waves, one I believe to know as Kynareth, though she holds a boat, not a bird, the other holds a scroll and a shield with an image of an Octopus - could this then be Vigryl, the sea god you have mentioned.

    SHnqkec.jpg

    never mind, it appears to be Martinne Guimard, the Breton who purchased the Systres in the Systres History
  • brylars
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    I have always viewed the gods mentioned in TES II as minor gods. Just like in the real world, it would make sense there would be small groups and ancient families who worshipped gods who had fallen out of favor with the general public or who were forgotten because of the "new gods" and the charisma of their priests. Perhaps these minor gods were not excepted at all by the general public and were limited to small groups of followers.

    We could also blame the plagues that have wiped much of the population of Tamriel over the years. If the followers were mostly wiped out then disenchanted by their gods' lack of action during the crisis, then that also could be used as an explanation for the low number of worshippers.

    We do suspect that the number of worshippers affects the gods' power, maybe these minor gods are barely existing now.
  • Kallykat
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    ^ Don't forget this game takes place BEFORE Daggerfall chronologically. If we don't see the minor gods worshipped in ESO, that means those cults/sects grew later, not that they disappeared over time.
  • brylars
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    LOL. I know. ESO is 2nd Era and TES I thru IV are 3rd Era.

    The reality is that TES II gods, as well as other lore, were unofficially retconned out of existence. Those of us that still consider it lore try to harmonize it but that is not always seamless. Look at the bestiaries from each game. Where are the centaurs, dragonlings, and nymphs?
  • Gaebriel0410
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    I have always interpreted it in a similar way, with the obscure gods mentioned in Daggerfall etc. (and several were already mentioned as being obscure or very regional in those books too) being essentially minor gods.

    For me that makes perfect sense, due to the rather fractured nature of High Rock and its constantly changing territories throughout history. I always saw High Rock as pretty culturally diverse (regarding Bretons that is), due to that. So it makes sense if their religion would also be a bit of a hodge podge affair if you compare it to races with a more 'structured/widespread' main religion. Some old sources also specifically state the Bretons being 'not overtly religious', which to me again ties in with the more loose approach regarding (regional) deities.

    Even while the Bretons' main pantheon is the Divines Plus Others, I also imagine lots of (subtle) variation between regions in regards to the prominence of even the Divines themselves, like the regional patrons as mentioned in the Daggerfall game.

    Recently a Deadlands lorebook mentioned a Temple/Abbey/Priory dedicated to Magnus, which was interesting imo as we don't often, if at all, see a confirmation of the existence of religious buildings to non-Divines in High Rock. We already knew of numerous saints and now the new druid lore also confirmed the reverence for all kinds of nature spirits, which is great.

    So I think there is still plenty of hope for the existence of said old gods, they are just not always as widespread as the more prominent ones. And until recently the Divines have always taken a bit of a backseat to daedric princes in recent games, so I don't mind if they chose to fleshing them out a bit first.

    Last but not least I was pleasantly surprised in High Isle, as one NPC in Gonfalon mentioned Sai (the old Breton deity of luck). So I don't think the old gods have been retconned at all.



  • Eporem
    Eporem
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    Aliyavana wrote: »
    Eporem wrote: »
    Lorewise, its made very clear that at some point the Bretons were forced to covert to strictly the Eight DIvines by the Imperials, its why we see them following the Imperial Pantheon of Gods.
    However by TES 2, they worshiped other gods.
    The Most Famous one is Sethite, a deity that had a temple in Camlorn, and I'm hoping sees an inclusion in some form of fringe revival cult. That we learn who this deity actually is and what he represents.

    Vigryl, he is the sea god, and the only god who is an actual sea god otherwise TES rather lacks Sea God lore. Now in ESO Herma Mora, turned more into a sea god like Vigyrl in some of their newer lore, and has has similar attributes like controlling the tides so maybe they can connect the two. Vigryl is also known as the Tide King and he is prayed to, for better weather conditions by the Bretons. I'm hoping we can get a lot more lore about this deity as we could use some Sea Deity lore.

    Notorgo is more like Hermes of Greek Mythology in that he is the messenger god otherwise nothing else is known about him.

    Q'Olwen is the deity of those who are in pursuit of Lore, that is all that is known about this deity. It would be nice if we could learn more about him.

    Raen is the breton god of Agriculture, now this diety could be compared to the Redguards Zeht, in fact it would be interesting if he is connected or the same deity as Zeht except more of a Breton aspect of said deity. Easily can do that with him and make his lore interesting as well. Since they basically share the same sphere.

    Druagaa is the goddess of flowers, her worship eventually dies out all together lorewise, however a festival is still dedicated to her in the future.

    In Gonfalon Bay there are two statues on pedestals of Waves, one I believe to know as Kynareth, though she holds a boat, not a bird, the other holds a scroll and a shield with an image of an Octopus - could this then be Vigryl, the sea god you have mentioned.

    SHnqkec.jpg

    never mind, it appears to be Martinne Guimard, the Breton who purchased the Systres in the Systres History

    thank you... there is this lore of her

    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Guimard

    though a wonder why an octopus is on her shield ... I have seen another octopus on a Leyawiin Divider..so another wonder if there is a connection.

    https://eso.mmo-fashion.com/leyawiin-divider-octopus/#jp-carousel-368894
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