Dungeon boss fights should be max 5min long

ForzaRammer

Dungeon boss is way too much work if the fight is 8 minutes +, when trial bosses are often 5-10

ForzaRammer

Prog a dlc dungeon hm is now about as annoying as prog 20 minutes vas2 back in the days

Mr_Madness

Wish Quest bosses lasted that long.


You met the person who has caused you to go on this quest to defeat the villian.....just for it to last 10 seconds or less.

Arthtur

More DPS = Shorter fights
Less DPS = Longer fights
If boss is designed to last 5m for weak group then good group will burn it in 20s. If the boss is designed to last 5m for good group it will take 20m+ for weaker group to get it done. U cant balance this.

I dont know how others feel but im kinda sick of burning bosses in less than minute... All that "just burn so we skip mechs" is rather boring.

zaria

ForzaRammer wrote: »

Prog a dlc dungeon hm is now about as annoying as prog 20 minutes vas2 back in the days

Except group decides to try to go HM if smooth run and can simply go standard vet if its to hard. Just has an couple of vet dlc HM who was not pure guild runs.

Hapexamendios

I guess trials are out of the question for you then.

Treeshka

I prefer long dungeon fights honestly. Majority of the old dungeons are nuke the boss before it casts anything.

Kusto

I cant think of any dungeon boss fight that's 5 min. If it takes you that long then its clearly dps issue.

spartaxoxo

Dungeons are already like that?? Longer dungeons are long because of the amount of traversal and trash fights? None of the bosses take that long?

Troodon80

I'm a little confused. I've had my fair share of low-DPS while tanking back in the early days, doing 2-4k DPS and doing 50% of the total group DPS. But that's a player issue, in terms of learning setups, rotations, etc., not a dungeon issue. Bosses should not have 20k health and die in, at max from a new player, three or four light attacks.

Perhaps more context for the discussion would be good? What prompted the creation of the topic?

kringled_1

Kusto wrote: »

I cant think of any dungeon boss fight that's 5 min. If it takes you that long then its clearly dps issue.

I have a hard time imagining killing lady thorn in hm in less than 5 minutes. There's several other dlc hms that are probably also hard to do in under 5.

Kisakee

So what do you expect to happen when a battle crosses the 5 minutes mark? Insta death to the boss? 😆

chessalavakia_ESO

Arthtur wrote: »

More DPS = Shorter fights
Less DPS = Longer fights
If boss is designed to last 5m for weak group then good group will burn it in 20s. If the boss is designed to last 5m for good group it will take 20m+ for weaker group to get it done. U cant balance this.

I dont know how others feel but im kinda sick of burning bosses in less than minute... All that "just burn so we skip mechs" is rather boring.

Potentially, ZOS could give the bosses buffs/debuffs based on the amount of damage incoming.

This would make the duration of fights less extreme on the low dps and the high dps ends.

Kisakee

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

Arthtur wrote: »

More DPS = Shorter fights
Less DPS = Longer fights
If boss is designed to last 5m for weak group then good group will burn it in 20s. If the boss is designed to last 5m for good group it will take 20m+ for weaker group to get it done. U cant balance this.

I dont know how others feel but im kinda sick of burning bosses in less than minute... All that "just burn so we skip mechs" is rather boring.

Potentially, ZOS could give the bosses buffs/debuffs based on the amount of damage incoming.

This would make the duration of fights less extreme on the low dps and the high dps ends.

And it would effectively eliminate all the work you did or did not put into your character, everything would die at the same speed no matter the damage output of your group. You could make a group of four tanks in all defense sets and they would do fine while glass canon DD's don't have any advantage with their playstyle. A perfect "How to kill a game 101".

alanmatillab16_ESO

ForzaRammer wrote: »

Dungeon boss is way too much work if the fight is 8 minutes +, when trial bosses are often 5-10

Easy, just introduce a 5 minute rage timer so your group is wiped if you can't do the boss in 5 minutes. Thats what you want right? or are you after bosses to be even easier because by the Divines instanced group content is the only remotely challenging PVE content left in the game.

DinoZavr

alanmatillab16_ESO wrote: »

Easy, just introduce a 5 minute rage timer so your group is wiped if you can't do the boss in 5 minutes. Thats what you want right? or are you after bosses to be even easier because by the Divines instanced group content is the only remotely challenging PVE content left in the game.

Both options are very bad for soloing 4-man dungeons.
Imagine you solo DC2 and deal with that netch boss which as 15 seconds vulnerability window each 2 minutes.
it takes like 6 .. 8 minutes on normal and like 15 minutes on vet.
- making boss enraged means you can not solo it at all
- making boss easier means you lose challenge
(though i'd like this certain boss fight to be shorter, as fighting the netch is not hard, but long and boring, but on overall, you got my idea, yes?)

alanmatillab16_ESO

DinoZavr wrote: »

alanmatillab16_ESO wrote: »

Easy, just introduce a 5 minute rage timer so your group is wiped if you can't do the boss in 5 minutes. Thats what you want right? or are you after bosses to be even easier because by the Divines instanced group content is the only remotely challenging PVE content left in the game.

Both options are very bad for soloing 4-man dungeons.
Imagine you solo DC2 and deal with that netch boss which as 15 seconds vulnerability window each 2 minutes.
it takes like 6 .. 8 minutes on normal and like 15 minutes on vet.
- making boss enraged means you can not solo it at all
- making boss easier means you lose challenge
(though i'd like this certain boss fight to be shorter, as fighting the netch is not hard, but long and boring, but on overall, you got my idea, yes?)

You have to consider the question: Are you supposed to be soloing instances intended for 4 people? The very fact that you can says that the instance needs to be harder not easier.

chessalavakia_ESO

Kisakee wrote: »

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

Arthtur wrote: »

More DPS = Shorter fights
Less DPS = Longer fights
If boss is designed to last 5m for weak group then good group will burn it in 20s. If the boss is designed to last 5m for good group it will take 20m+ for weaker group to get it done. U cant balance this.

I dont know how others feel but im kinda sick of burning bosses in less than minute... All that "just burn so we skip mechs" is rather boring.

Potentially, ZOS could give the bosses buffs/debuffs based on the amount of damage incoming.

This would make the duration of fights less extreme on the low dps and the high dps ends.

And it would effectively eliminate all the work you did or did not put into your character, everything would die at the same speed no matter the damage output of your group. You could make a group of four tanks in all defense sets and they would do fine while glass canon DD's don't have any advantage with their playstyle. A perfect "How to kill a game 101".

You'd have a degree of deviation as it would take time for the effects to ramp up enough to move everyone to the same damage (Assuming of course that the effects actually reached that point before the fight ended).

You do have to admit what you are saying is mildly amusing considering the game's current circumstance. It's not exactly a rarity to hop into a dungeon run where you've got a DPS pretending to be the tank or the healer and having the run go more smoothly than if you actually had one.

emilyhyoyeon

Arthtur wrote: »

More DPS = Shorter fights
Less DPS = Longer fights
If boss is designed to last 5m for weak group then good group will burn it in 20s. If the boss is designed to last 5m for good group it will take 20m+ for weaker group to get it done. U cant balance this.

I dont know how others feel but im kinda sick of burning bosses in less than minute... All that "just burn so we skip mechs" is rather boring.

Except in fights like Castle Thorn last boss, MOS Indrik, MOS last boss, where most of the fight length by FAR is not dps related

Kisakee

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

You do have to admit what you are saying is mildly amusing considering the game's current circumstance. It's not exactly a rarity to hop into a dungeon run where you've got a DPS pretending to be the tank or the healer and having the run go more smoothly than if you actually had one.

No i don't. Good tanks and healers are contributing so much more to a smooth run than those half baken wannabes being fakes.

I play all roles and teamplay is so much easier in traditional groups if everyone knows their job. You're just mistaken with your assumption because most "real" tanks and healers in pugs are bad at fulfilling their role.

zaria

Kisakee wrote: »

So what do you expect to happen when a battle crosses the 5 minutes mark? Insta death to the boss? 😆

Boss enrages and kills the players would also limit the fight to 5 minutes
But that would only make it possible with the high dps groups on harder modes not the ones who continues trying and make it at the end by mastering the mechanic would always fail

Tsunahmie

Just queue with randoms lol
I was in Banished cells on my pure healer for a combined 2 1/2 hours today....
First one the 2 DPS had a combined DPS of about 7k
Second time one of the DPS was literally using Sword n Board but luckily I had an inferno staff on me so it only took 5 tries on HM...I was killing every Deadroth for the next 20 minutes after the first 4 had spawned and still ended up doing more dmge on boss than the 2 DPS. Both of them were 400+ CP

Nevertheless....we finished the dungeon in the end and it definitely put things into perspective.

PvE mechanics in older dungeons are kinda boring and not challenging once you can do 20k dps (pls guys...just listen when someone gives you tips or offers to craft you gear....I offered in both dungeons....)

TLDR:
Queue with randoms as a healer or tank and you will get your 20 minute boss fights. Heck sometimes even a 30 minute one if you don't wipe!

DinoZavr

alanmatillab16_ESO wrote: »

You have to consider the question: Are you supposed to be soloing instances intended for 4 people? The very fact that you can says that the instance needs to be harder not easier.

Yes. Absolutely i am supposed to solo 4-man.
Remember: modern ESO inherited base game dungeons from the times when character scaling was not the issue,
so their difficulties vary. Fungal Grotto I is designed for 4 level 10 players in a trash gear, and, it surely can be soloed by one level 30 character in a trash gear.
Having many dungeons to solo is good for challenge and learning game mechanics. Removing this option would be a serious mistake, as there are only 2 solo arenas available and constantly repeating nMA while you level your characters is too boring.

spartaxoxo

alanmatillab16_ESO wrote: »

DinoZavr wrote: »

alanmatillab16_ESO wrote: »

Easy, just introduce a 5 minute rage timer so your group is wiped if you can't do the boss in 5 minutes. Thats what you want right? or are you after bosses to be even easier because by the Divines instanced group content is the only remotely challenging PVE content left in the game.

Both options are very bad for soloing 4-man dungeons.
Imagine you solo DC2 and deal with that netch boss which as 15 seconds vulnerability window each 2 minutes.
it takes like 6 .. 8 minutes on normal and like 15 minutes on vet.
- making boss enraged means you can not solo it at all
- making boss easier means you lose challenge
(though i'd like this certain boss fight to be shorter, as fighting the netch is not hard, but long and boring, but on overall, you got my idea, yes?)

You have to consider the question: Are you supposed to be soloing instances intended for 4 people? The very fact that you can says that the instance needs to be harder not easier.

No. It doesn't. There is nothing wrong with skillful players being able to overcome stuff that is challenging to new players by themselves. Fungal Grotto was designed for like level 20s or whatever it was, in the OLD Game. OFC someone in 2022 in far superior gear should be able to beat it alone. The game doesn't need to become impossible to do group content on for the average player, just so skillful players are prevented from doing content on their own.

Also, as someone else pointed out there are only 2 SOLO arenas. People need challenges they can just pickup and do on their own schedule. Overland is literally for newbies. It offers no challenge whatsoever. OFC in such an environment people should able to do stuff that new and casual players need a group for on their own as a challenge.

Jpk0012

Arthtur wrote: »

More DPS = Shorter fights
Less DPS = Longer fights
If boss is designed to last 5m for weak group then good group will burn it in 20s. If the boss is designed to last 5m for good group it will take 20m+ for weaker group to get it done. U cant balance this.

I dont know how others feel but im kinda sick of burning bosses in less than minute... All that "just burn so we skip mechs" is rather boring.

The problem is that ZOS is unwilling to look into any solution to balance the game. So instead they throw in invulnerability phases, so top end players don't come to the forum to complain about being bored. Unfortunately, that number is low, and punishes the rest of us including potential long-term players that quit out of boredom or frustration. Invulnerable phases is a bad mechanic. 5,000 mechanics going off at once is laughable in an RPG. Go play Elden Ring for that.

ZOS_Hadeostry

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic.

Thank you for your understanding.