Minor buffs not "hybridized"?

Rikakiah

With the changes for hybrids and adding both versions of buffs to skills (ie both spell & weapon crit to Inner Light, etc), why hasn't the minor buffs from class passives been included?
-Nightblades provide only minor weapon crit
-Templars provide only minor spell crit
-Dragonknights provide only minor weapon damage
-Sorcerers? provide only minor spell damage (I'm new to their skills, but I think that's right)

SkadiMZ

You've mixed up templar and sorc, but the others seem right.

I think ZOS stated during the hybridization changes that they weren't going to change those minor buffs because access to them is very narrow and allows for more class identity. I could be wrong.

I don't think you're crazy for asking about this because they hybridized everything else, but I don't want them to hybridize these unique class buffs. I'd like for some character identity to remain, but that's just my opinion.

WrathOfInnos

They were deliberately not hybridized so that every class can still bring something unique to a group. I support the idea that each class play a key role in an organized group.

However, the current scenario has completely failed to achieve this goal. Templar for example supplies Minor Sorcery (spell damage % increase), but this is not needed if players build into weapon damage (buffed by Dragonknight's minor brutality % increase). The result is that nobody needs or wants a Templar in trial groups at the moment, their damage/healing/tankiness are not great and they provide no unique buffs/debuffs to the group.

Similar story with nightblades and Minor Savagery. It is not necessary if there is a Sorcerer in group with Minor Prophecy. Even stamina DPS can build for Spell Crit (generally by slotting Camo Hunter or a class skill) and it applies to all of their skills.

Each class needs a unique group buff, and even without hybridizing the original 4 this has disappeared. 2 of the 6 classes are irrelevant in coordinated groups, and this is a major problem. Nightblade and Templar need something useful and unique ASAP, and then it will be fine if Sorc brings weapon + spell crit and DK brings weapon + spell damage.

acastanza_ESO

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

They were deliberately not hybridized so that every class can still bring something unique to a group. I support the idea that each class play a key role in an organized group.

However, the current scenario has completely failed to achieve this goal. Templar for example supplies Minor Sorcery (spell damage % increase), but this is not needed if players build into weapon damage (buffed by Dragonknight's minor brutality % increase). The result is that nobody needs or wants a Templar in trial groups at the moment, their damage/healing/tankiness are not great and they provide no unique buffs/debuffs to the group.

Similar story with nightblades and Minor Savagery. It is not necessary if there is a Sorcerer in group with Minor Prophecy. Even stamina DPS can build for Spell Crit (generally by slotting Camo Hunter or a class skill) and it applies to all of their skills.

Each class needs a unique group buff, and even without hybridizing the original 4 this has disappeared. 2 of the 6 classes are irrelevant in coordinated groups, and this is a major problem. Nightblade and Templar need something useful and unique ASAP, and then it will be fine if Sorc brings weapon + spell crit and DK brings weapon + spell damage.

This is abject nonsense. People are still just as likely to build spell damage just as they are weapon damage. Groups absolutely need both buffs. Same with crit. Literally no one is forcing every member of a group to build all one way or another. Not to mention, your own two examples contradict each other. Saying Nightblade (Weapon Crit) and Templar (Spell Damage) are irrelevant is silly because that leaves just the minor buffs for Weapon Damage and Spell Crit, if you show me a organized group that is building for Weapon Damage but Spell Crit, I'll eat my destro staff.

WrathOfInnos

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

They were deliberately not hybridized so that every class can still bring something unique to a group. I support the idea that each class play a key role in an organized group.

However, the current scenario has completely failed to achieve this goal. Templar for example supplies Minor Sorcery (spell damage % increase), but this is not needed if players build into weapon damage (buffed by Dragonknight's minor brutality % increase). The result is that nobody needs or wants a Templar in trial groups at the moment, their damage/healing/tankiness are not great and they provide no unique buffs/debuffs to the group.

Similar story with nightblades and Minor Savagery. It is not necessary if there is a Sorcerer in group with Minor Prophecy. Even stamina DPS can build for Spell Crit (generally by slotting Camo Hunter or a class skill) and it applies to all of their skills.

Each class needs a unique group buff, and even without hybridizing the original 4 this has disappeared. 2 of the 6 classes are irrelevant in coordinated groups, and this is a major problem. Nightblade and Templar need something useful and unique ASAP, and then it will be fine if Sorc brings weapon + spell crit and DK brings weapon + spell damage.

This is abject nonsense. People are still just as likely to build spell damage just as they are weapon damage. Groups absolutely need both buffs. Same with crit. Literally no one is forcing every member of a group to build all one way or another. Not to mention, your own two examples contradict each other. Saying Nightblade (Weapon Crit) and Templar (Spell Damage) are irrelevant is silly because that leaves just the minor buffs for Weapon Damage and Spell Crit, if you show me a organized group that is building for Weapon Damage but Spell Crit, I'll eat my destro staff.

@acastanza_ESO I know it sounds crazy, but here is my weekend vDSR core roster. Balth is actually an excellent Templar player, but chose to go with DK because it is flat out better and the plar brings nothing to the group. The only change we had to make was swapping jewelry enchants from Spell Damage to Weapon Damage.


The top trial group at the moment is also running without a templar, although it seems they opted to have a nightblade healer so that the stamcros don't have to slot camo hunter. Same story there, they all just use weapon damage jewelry glyphs.



Note that both groups just stack the top DPS class (Necro), with 1-2 Dragonknight DPS, 1 Sorc, and no Templar DPS, Nightblade DPS, or Warden DPS. Even brittleden is dead in DSR because Sub Assault is so buggy with the hitbox on the final boss, so groups run a brittle support or a brittle necro DPS.

AinSoph

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

They were deliberately not hybridized so that every class can still bring something unique to a group. I support the idea that each class play a key role in an organized group.

However, the current scenario has completely failed to achieve this goal. Templar for example supplies Minor Sorcery (spell damage % increase), but this is not needed if players build into weapon damage (buffed by Dragonknight's minor brutality % increase). The result is that nobody needs or wants a Templar in trial groups at the moment, their damage/healing/tankiness are not great and they provide no unique buffs/debuffs to the group.

Similar story with nightblades and Minor Savagery. It is not necessary if there is a Sorcerer in group with Minor Prophecy. Even stamina DPS can build for Spell Crit (generally by slotting Camo Hunter or a class skill) and it applies to all of their skills.

Each class needs a unique group buff, and even without hybridizing the original 4 this has disappeared. 2 of the 6 classes are irrelevant in coordinated groups, and this is a major problem. Nightblade and Templar need something useful and unique ASAP, and then it will be fine if Sorc brings weapon + spell crit and DK brings weapon + spell damage.

This is abject nonsense. People are still just as likely to build spell damage just as they are weapon damage. Groups absolutely need both buffs. Same with crit. Literally no one is forcing every member of a group to build all one way or another. Not to mention, your own two examples contradict each other. Saying Nightblade (Weapon Crit) and Templar (Spell Damage) are irrelevant is silly because that leaves just the minor buffs for Weapon Damage and Spell Crit, if you show me a organized group that is building for Weapon Damage but Spell Crit, I'll eat my destro staff.

If you completely ignore what Hybridization brought to the game, then sure.

Stx

Let's please not homogenize everything.

What they should do is add at least one source for each of these buffs on other skills/ gear sets.

Currently you can get these buffs from using poisons, but the uptime is poor and you're giving up other enchants for it.