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"ONE CHANGE can SAVE the GAME" --Thoughts of a top 10 ranked player after three weeks of ToT
Tuonra2
✭✭
Hiya forums,
Sorry not sorry for the clickbait
Long time player, new to the forums, but I wanted to share my experience and feedback
First of all I wanna say the game is fun! It brought me back to ESO in general w/ this update and I don't regret it, so thanks for that ZOS.
I have however made a running list of feedback point over the first season, and I feel this is the time to share, so here goes.
*****************************
MAIN GAMEPLAY SUGGESTION:
If you only read one thing let it be this
---Have the top card of the tavern be face-up for all to see---
We all know there are certain must-take cards at the moment, and I'm fine with that, what feels bad however is giving one to your opponent 'for free' by having it be dealt from the tavern after you buy something. I already see it leading to forced stalemates where neither player buys any card for fear of giving the opponent a near free win. This is contrary to the spirit of the game imo and would be neatly solved I feel with the information of the next card being public, shifting the game more toward rewarding decision making over the luck of the draw. If not this exact solution, I would still love to see something addressing this issue in future versions of the game.
*****************************
Bug fixes:
-Ansei 'choose one' cards removing the highlighting of purchasable cards and patrons
-'frozen' matches where you queue into a match and it stops before giving anyone the option of choosing a patron deck, the only option being to concede and take the penalty.
Balance:
-Sorcerer King Orgnum: the patron power takes over the entire game and is overwhelmingly in favour of the first player, the idea is interesting however and I have several suggestions:
*5 gold patron power that flips fully from unfavoured to favoured like Ansei, the gold cost slows down the start of the tug of war over the hero power and has increased swing potential ingame
*2 gold patron power where moving from neutral to favoured does the same as now (1power/6cards), but moving from UNfavoured to neutral is what buying him already favoured does now(1p/4c + boarding party). Buying him when he is favoured would give you 2 flat power and a boarding party. This way you risk a lot by just buying him once, but if you can double patron on one turn, you get high rewards! there is already patron synergy in orgnum's deck and it even fits flavour-wise where you send out your raiding party but if you don't return home you leave your base open to be raided back
Suggestions:
-Change or remove the concede penalty at least while the queue system becomes more robust (I understand the desire to prevent win-trading, but it's doing more harm than good)
-Speed up animations and change what things we need to wait on (waiting on the animation of your opponent's next hand being drawn to start your turn etc)
-When 'acquiring' a card of up to X cost, display that 'X' in the text, so often I play 2 hlaalu cards one giving 5 and the other 7 cost cards but they trigger together and it is unclear
-When you order cards in your draw pile with Psijic cards, I suggest displaying those cards in order when hovering over your deck after tossing. ideally highlighted.
-More visual difference in what window is popping up, maybe a colour border to differentiate Toss, discard and 'move to top of deck'.
-Fully integrate 'rightclick' as a cancel, so far only a few things like hlaalu patron use this, but it would be nice to see it everywhere
-A play history, I very often miss what my opponent is doing or their deck reshuffles before I can see what they bought etc. The combo tracker is the right idea, but honestly the least useful thing to keep track of
-Display the total power/prestige/gold that will be gained from using patrons in certain situations (crow, Orgnum...)
-Display the number of cards in draw pile separate from hand and played
-Turn timer sound more of a crescendo to give a better warning, the countdown on screen is small and the sound is steady, no clear difference between 10 and 5 seconds for ex.
-Emotes! (I like the social parts of the game and being able to chat during the game, but if your opponent takes an ebony mine to reveal another ebony mine, you just need to be able to instantly react with disbelief :P)
-Player rewards per season to include titles 'Season 1 Elite Cardshark' or something similar perhaps for the top 2%
Thank you all for reading, hope to see you in game!
-Tuonra2
PS: proof of rank https://imgur.com/a/ZiH2CjT
PPS: If you are a fan of ToT, we are building up a Discord community to share strats, host tourneys or just hang out; check it out: https://discord.gg/6sUjZuKs
Sorry not sorry for the clickbait
Long time player, new to the forums, but I wanted to share my experience and feedback
First of all I wanna say the game is fun! It brought me back to ESO in general w/ this update and I don't regret it, so thanks for that ZOS.
I have however made a running list of feedback point over the first season, and I feel this is the time to share, so here goes.
*****************************
MAIN GAMEPLAY SUGGESTION:
If you only read one thing let it be this
---Have the top card of the tavern be face-up for all to see---
We all know there are certain must-take cards at the moment, and I'm fine with that, what feels bad however is giving one to your opponent 'for free' by having it be dealt from the tavern after you buy something. I already see it leading to forced stalemates where neither player buys any card for fear of giving the opponent a near free win. This is contrary to the spirit of the game imo and would be neatly solved I feel with the information of the next card being public, shifting the game more toward rewarding decision making over the luck of the draw. If not this exact solution, I would still love to see something addressing this issue in future versions of the game.
*****************************
Bug fixes:
-Ansei 'choose one' cards removing the highlighting of purchasable cards and patrons
-'frozen' matches where you queue into a match and it stops before giving anyone the option of choosing a patron deck, the only option being to concede and take the penalty.
Balance:
-Sorcerer King Orgnum: the patron power takes over the entire game and is overwhelmingly in favour of the first player, the idea is interesting however and I have several suggestions:
*5 gold patron power that flips fully from unfavoured to favoured like Ansei, the gold cost slows down the start of the tug of war over the hero power and has increased swing potential ingame
*2 gold patron power where moving from neutral to favoured does the same as now (1power/6cards), but moving from UNfavoured to neutral is what buying him already favoured does now(1p/4c + boarding party). Buying him when he is favoured would give you 2 flat power and a boarding party. This way you risk a lot by just buying him once, but if you can double patron on one turn, you get high rewards! there is already patron synergy in orgnum's deck and it even fits flavour-wise where you send out your raiding party but if you don't return home you leave your base open to be raided back
Suggestions:
-Change or remove the concede penalty at least while the queue system becomes more robust (I understand the desire to prevent win-trading, but it's doing more harm than good)
-Speed up animations and change what things we need to wait on (waiting on the animation of your opponent's next hand being drawn to start your turn etc)
-When 'acquiring' a card of up to X cost, display that 'X' in the text, so often I play 2 hlaalu cards one giving 5 and the other 7 cost cards but they trigger together and it is unclear
-When you order cards in your draw pile with Psijic cards, I suggest displaying those cards in order when hovering over your deck after tossing. ideally highlighted.
-More visual difference in what window is popping up, maybe a colour border to differentiate Toss, discard and 'move to top of deck'.
-Fully integrate 'rightclick' as a cancel, so far only a few things like hlaalu patron use this, but it would be nice to see it everywhere
-A play history, I very often miss what my opponent is doing or their deck reshuffles before I can see what they bought etc. The combo tracker is the right idea, but honestly the least useful thing to keep track of
-Display the total power/prestige/gold that will be gained from using patrons in certain situations (crow, Orgnum...)
-Display the number of cards in draw pile separate from hand and played
-Turn timer sound more of a crescendo to give a better warning, the countdown on screen is small and the sound is steady, no clear difference between 10 and 5 seconds for ex.
-Emotes! (I like the social parts of the game and being able to chat during the game, but if your opponent takes an ebony mine to reveal another ebony mine, you just need to be able to instantly react with disbelief :P)
-Player rewards per season to include titles 'Season 1 Elite Cardshark' or something similar perhaps for the top 2%
Thank you all for reading, hope to see you in game!
-Tuonra2
PS: proof of rank https://imgur.com/a/ZiH2CjT
PPS: If you are a fan of ToT, we are building up a Discord community to share strats, host tourneys or just hang out; check it out: https://discord.gg/6sUjZuKs
5
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EF321✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I agree on next tavern card preview, suggested the same in some other random thread.
Also I would like first hand to be non random, but predefined - you always get only treasury coins, no patron starter cards.0 -
Tuonra2✭✭I agree on next tavern card preview, suggested the same in some other random thread.
Also I would like first hand to be non random, but predefined - you always get only treasury coins, no patron starter cards.
As someone who purposefully picks pelin or red eagle when going first to have the chance to counter the player going second, I disagree w/ this change, 6cost cards are super powerful and if what you propose goes through then the extra coin on P2's first turn will be too consistenly powerful. if you get shafted by power cards, my suggestion is to either not pick those patrons or jsut use the treasurey on that card instead of a coin. That was a bit of a personal realiza0 -
Tuonra2✭✭... realization for me when I figured out that picking pelin or red eagle and treasuring the power card goingg first often block's p2's chance at a 6cost while giving you a high chance at a 6 or even 7 on turn 3
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cyclonus11✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Also: Pelin and Rajhiin cards are too similar in color. Lighten Rajhiin up a bit to make it more orange or make a completely different color4 -
Heartrage✭✭✭✭✭I think it’s a fair change, late game would still have a possibility to be affected by hidden cards but early game will be easier to plan to counter strong cards.0 -
kevkj✭✭✭✭Pretty much agree on all your miscellaneous suggestions. Can't comment on the Orgnum suggestions, haven't actually played with that deck enough.
Your primary suggestion could be an interesting change for sure but I think it will end up tilting the favour too much for the player with an early gold lead. By getting a card preview, the high gold player can know for certain that buying up the cheap card in the tavern will open up the card they truly want. This will enable them to more effectively spend their gold while already ahead.
Currently, the player who is behind is given an opportunity to catch up when the leading player 'wastes' gold on their turn by not interacting with the tavern.0 -
Tuonra2✭✭Your primary suggestion could be an interesting change for sure but I think it will end up tilting the favour too much for the player with an early gold lead. By getting a card preview, the high gold player can know for certain that buying up the cheap card in the tavern will open up the card they truly want. This will enable them to more effectively spend their gold while already ahead.
Currently, the player who is behind is given an opportunity to catch up when the leading player 'wastes' gold on their turn by not interacting with the tavern.
Hmm, I sure don't feel 'ahead' just because I have gold in my hand.
The way I see it, this change would allow both players to pick up medium value cards (like backstab or hostile takeover) risk free if they see the next card is not much better. And if the next card is much better then both players are incentivized to use patrons etc to build up their decks and work to get that good card in one big turn. Imo that lessens the 'stalemate' early on where you're too scared to even take a harvest for fear of revealing an armoury, and at the same time it promotes longer, slower games where both players build up lots of gold. That way both players can then buy entire taverns basically to build large decks and face off in the endgame. Which is the style of play I'm partial to.
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kevkj✭✭✭✭I guess "ahead" definitely overstates the advantage but I'm not sure the 1 card preview will necessarily prevent stalemates. Now when both players know for certain that an armory or rally is up next, they will definitely not buy anything until they can afford to get 2 cards.
I do think it's a suggestion worth testing at least internally.1 -
Lnin0✭✭✭I don’t know that the next card in the tavern draw pile should be face up but I would like to see some action cards allow you to preview it. In fact I feel like there is a missed opportunity that you can only see not your hand. Why not allow me to preview and arrange the opponents next few cards. Also, having a way to destroy an opponent card and place it back in tavern would be great.5 -
Fyrsa✭I agree that there should be some mechanic to view the top card of the tavern deck, though I'm uncertain if it should be a permanent effect, or a mechanic that rewards the player.
Certain weaker agent cards could be given a "scout" effect, that reveals the top card of the tavern to you while in play. Having the Treasury also reveal the top card of the tavern could also be a pretty thematic way of accomplishing it, while providing an advantage against patron-heavy decks like Orgnum.
Either way, this gets my vote - I feel the game would be better with this mechanic, regardless of implementation.1 -
Fennwitty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭cyclonus11 wrote: »Also: Pelin and Rajhiin cards are too similar in color. Lighten Rajhiin up a bit to make it more orange or make a completely different color
They should have clear patron symbols on all cards.
Differentiating only by shade of color is textbook bad decision in today's world of user accessibility. Obviously ZoS has never shown a real concern for colorblindness, light sensitivity, or any other accessibility concern though.
EDIT: To be clear, I mean the current ones are not easy to tell apart.Edited by Fennwitty on June 24, 2022 7:45PMPC NA1