PLEASE make towers at resources destructible again!

Aixy

HAi make towers at resources destructible is on my wish list

So Y e S !!!!!

pleximus

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

The enemy must own the resource in order for it to be destructible.

Brrrofski wrote: »

I was farming people in towers when you could destruct them. It's barely any different to now.
People would take the resource before sieging the tower. So they rarely for taken down. I honestly think I've seen like 3 towers ever get taken down.

The same people who go in one by one, or can't organize enough to kill the group in the tower will be the same people shooting it with siege from the flag. Then they will wonder why the siege stopped working all of the sudden. Once they figure that part out, then they will be trying to convince people in chat to skip the AP & continuous attack bonus so they can crumble a tower. This conversation has lots of toxicity potential. Then they crumble the tower, just as the tower group jumps off the side and goes to another resource.

Making towers destructible only adds lag due to the animations while changing almost nothing for the players.

Being able to siege keeps from resource towers shouldn't be possible but since it's still a thing then we should be able to destroy said towers.

xDeusEJRx

pleximus wrote: »

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

The enemy must own the resource in order for it to be destructible.

Brrrofski wrote: »

I was farming people in towers when you could destruct them. It's barely any different to now.
People would take the resource before sieging the tower. So they rarely for taken down. I honestly think I've seen like 3 towers ever get taken down.

The same people who go in one by one, or can't organize enough to kill the group in the tower will be the same people shooting it with siege from the flag. Then they will wonder why the siege stopped working all of the sudden. Once they figure that part out, then they will be trying to convince people in chat to skip the AP & continuous attack bonus so they can crumble a tower. This conversation has lots of toxicity potential. Then they crumble the tower, just as the tower group jumps off the side and goes to another resource.

Making towers destructible only adds lag due to the animations while changing almost nothing for the players.

Being able to siege keeps from resource towers shouldn't be possible but since it's still a thing then we should be able to destroy said towers.

Why should it not be possible though? It's possible to siege people from towers and never engage in a fight with someone, just sit on ballistas during fights but for some reason hitting keeps from towers is not fair? As far as I know every faction has a keep that you can do it from, so it's not like it only targets 1 particular faction. I've done it to each faction in blackreach

pleximus

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

pleximus wrote: »

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

The enemy must own the resource in order for it to be destructible.

Brrrofski wrote: »

I was farming people in towers when you could destruct them. It's barely any different to now.
People would take the resource before sieging the tower. So they rarely for taken down. I honestly think I've seen like 3 towers ever get taken down.

The same people who go in one by one, or can't organize enough to kill the group in the tower will be the same people shooting it with siege from the flag. Then they will wonder why the siege stopped working all of the sudden. Once they figure that part out, then they will be trying to convince people in chat to skip the AP & continuous attack bonus so they can crumble a tower. This conversation has lots of toxicity potential. Then they crumble the tower, just as the tower group jumps off the side and goes to another resource.

Making towers destructible only adds lag due to the animations while changing almost nothing for the players.

Being able to siege keeps from resource towers shouldn't be possible but since it's still a thing then we should be able to destroy said towers.

Why should it not be possible though? It's possible to siege people from towers and never engage in a fight with someone, just sit on ballistas during fights but for some reason hitting keeps from towers is not fair? As far as I know every faction has a keep that you can do it from, so it's not like it only targets 1 particular faction. I've done it to each faction in blackreach

And this is something ZOS should fix. It's ridiculous that you can siege from towers without any consequences at all. Aleswell farm is a horrid show with unkillable toxic groups who siege the wall. It really is toxic gameplay.

CaperGuy

I suppose to each their own, though I will never understand why people can have fun constantly being chased around a rock/tree/tower/pillar all day in PvP. Some people watched too many Scooby Doo chase scenes as a kid I guess

I suppose it’s a way for my enemy to kill me out of sheer boredom. Come out and fight!

xDeusEJRx

CaperGuy wrote: »

I suppose to each their own, though I will never understand why people can have fun constantly being chased around a rock/tree/tower/pillar all day in PvP. Some people watched too many Scooby Doo chase scenes as a kid I guess

I suppose it’s a way for my enemy to kill me out of sheer boredom. Come out and fight!

Most of the time it's being outnumbered. It's impossible to win outnumbered 3 to 1 with people constantly cross healing with proc sets like earthgore, bogdan, chokethorn, etc etc and spamming procs on you as well. So the best bet is to split up the group and thin the numbers out.

How do you expect 1 or 2 people not using some bomb build like DC, plaguebreak, or VD to wipe a group 3x the size when they have dedicated healers with "save you from death" procs like earthgore and chokethorn and all the other cheesy procs in the game to win in the scenario? Answer is you don't, without LoS and taking down stragglers. Without using procs yourselves you can't feasibly win against people cheesing you down with numbers

Proc pvp has created the worst type of pvp. I don't line of sight in a fight unless I'm outnumbered like 5 to 1, even taking on 4 solo is possible. But with 5 I have to be cautious because they're gonna be using cheesy procs against me like Dark convergence chain pulling me off CC cooldown. And the random chain pull destroys your rotation entirely. I miss old school pvp. And I love no proc but low population on console keeps me out of it and in terrible proc PVP

NordSwordnBoard

pleximus wrote: »

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

The enemy must own the resource in order for it to be destructible.

Brrrofski wrote: »

I was farming people in towers when you could destruct them. It's barely any different to now.
People would take the resource before sieging the tower. So they rarely for taken down. I honestly think I've seen like 3 towers ever get taken down.

The same people who go in one by one, or can't organize enough to kill the group in the tower will be the same people shooting it with siege from the flag. Then they will wonder why the siege stopped working all of the sudden. Once they figure that part out, then they will be trying to convince people in chat to skip the AP & continuous attack bonus so they can crumble a tower. This conversation has lots of toxicity potential. Then they crumble the tower, just as the tower group jumps off the side and goes to another resource.

Making towers destructible only adds lag due to the animations while changing almost nothing for the players.

Being able to siege keeps from resource towers shouldn't be possible but since it's still a thing then we should be able to destroy said towers.

You won't, even if you can. If you don't have the skill or coordination to remove the tower group by conventional means, how will you coordinate enough siege and prevent randoms from flipping the flag because you can't destroy your own building?

If you have a group that's big enough to siege down the tower fast enough, but don't have the skill/coordination to kill enemy players that's on you. It's on me too! I decide to leave towers fights as a solo when it looks hopeless. With a group you can tell if its going to happen rather quickly and decide if its worth your time.

Fidget1302

kargen27 wrote: »

Thecompton73 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Not much point to making the towers destructible. Players are still going to farm other players so long as there are players willing to be farmed. Plenty of other things around a flag to use as a line of sight advantage without relying on the towers. The towers are simply the most convenient.

The towers happen to be on top of resources that are worth points. It is stupid for a faction to lose so many points because the towers are infested and people just get sick of chasing these idiots around them again and again.
The absolute correct response to them would be for people to just zerg them overwhelmingly again and again to embarrass and frustrate them. If they got wiped in 10 seconds five times in a row they'd move on, but most people are over even bothering at this point. Leaving a few frustrated players actually playing the map for score to try to root them out.

The flag is what draws players in. If the tower wasn't there the players farming the resource would simply change tactics but they would still be around a flag. There are other things near the flag that can be used for line of sight safety. The problem is the players being farmed seem to trickle in instead of waiting for decent numbers. That is the worst response. Better to either ignore (it is only one resource) or as you pointed out get superior numbers and drive them away. Either strategy can be affective.
If the group farming the resource gets no attention the first thing they will try is to take all three resources. When this happens same responses will work. Flip the resources the group abandoned or smack the group down. Don't give them an advantage nor even a fair fight.
Removing the towers or making them destructible isn't going to help with the problem you are seeing.

You're completely wrong. Towers have three different elevations complete with stairs, claives, and archways. It's a kiter's paradise. Tower humpers have near endless options for turn and burns, and maneuverability. Remove the towers and they'll still be farming, sure, but they won't be doing it for nearly as long because most of the things they can use for LOS in lieu of a tower is a one story farm house or shed, maybe a few trees or rocks. The lack of the tower's confined space gives the zerg free reign to pulverize resource humpers with ranged abilities and siege galore from many different angles all at once, which would force the tower humpers to either leave and try to draw them into a better choke point away from the resource, or to fight it out and try to kill the players around them.

Also, this notion of "leave them alone" is silly since most start flagging your keep from the resource if you do leave them alone, and if you keep leaving them alone after that they'll take your keeps. Believe it or not, some players do like to play the game the way it's supposed to be played - for objectives and points - especially in close campaigns where the lead changes have been several and it's close (like it's currently been in GH on PC/NA) so it's silly to say "leave them alone" because trust me, if you do, they WON'T leave you alone.

xDeusEJRx

Fidget1302 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Thecompton73 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Not much point to making the towers destructible. Players are still going to farm other players so long as there are players willing to be farmed. Plenty of other things around a flag to use as a line of sight advantage without relying on the towers. The towers are simply the most convenient.

The towers happen to be on top of resources that are worth points. It is stupid for a faction to lose so many points because the towers are infested and people just get sick of chasing these idiots around them again and again.
The absolute correct response to them would be for people to just zerg them overwhelmingly again and again to embarrass and frustrate them. If they got wiped in 10 seconds five times in a row they'd move on, but most people are over even bothering at this point. Leaving a few frustrated players actually playing the map for score to try to root them out.

The flag is what draws players in. If the tower wasn't there the players farming the resource would simply change tactics but they would still be around a flag. There are other things near the flag that can be used for line of sight safety. The problem is the players being farmed seem to trickle in instead of waiting for decent numbers. That is the worst response. Better to either ignore (it is only one resource) or as you pointed out get superior numbers and drive them away. Either strategy can be affective.
If the group farming the resource gets no attention the first thing they will try is to take all three resources. When this happens same responses will work. Flip the resources the group abandoned or smack the group down. Don't give them an advantage nor even a fair fight.
Removing the towers or making them destructible isn't going to help with the problem you are seeing.

The lack of the tower's confined space gives the zerg free reign to pulverize resource humpers with ranged abilities and siege galore from many different angles all at once, which would force the tower humpers to either leave and try to draw them into a better choke point away from the resource, or to fight it out and try to kill the players around them.

I find it funny how you make it sound like zergs need to have more power in pvp as if zergs aren't usually the strongest thing running pvp other than ball groups. It's not like zergs aren't gonna always run over people when they outnumber them 10-1. That on top of sieging people from on top of walls and having dedicated healers whereas a lot of solo or zerg surfers on the otherside don't even have 1/10 the security or strength a zerg has.
Plus zergs have more numbers meaning more people can body block damage or face tank damage meant for other people or they can ruin someone's rotation by spamming CC's. Zergs are very powerful and I don't think they need more power lol

Ominer

The only people who complain about tower fights, are people who're looking to zerg down players in the tower so they can get their massive group to continue steamrolling the map.

There's no reason to complain about towers when you can literally just walk away from them (and most do).

The LOS towers provide, delays you swarming the players inside and that's why you don't like it.
Towers provide players with the opportunity to even the odds when massively outnumbered.

Everyone in this thread saying 'lets just fight' when you've no doubt got 20 players stood behind you, isn't exactly fair.

You'll be asking for the removal of all rocks and trees, and for cyro to be completely flat next (I’ve already seen that on the forum).

Fighting outnumbered is already getting harder and harder with ZOS catering to zergs and low apm players, stop trying to make it worse.

CompM4s

Its kind if funny how zergs are complaining about fairness while outnumbering people…

xylena_lazarow

Why did the Imperials build all these structures that only benefit invaders?

Elendir2am

@xDeusEJRx, @Ominer, @CompM4s

Isn't victory of 10 in fight 10v1 expectable and correct outcome?
Winning 1v10 for 1 should be exclusive for players with adequate skills.
Playing with LoS is exploiting poorness of combat mechanics for false feels of superiority over "10" when you fight 2 or 3 in realty.

ESO PvP contains several tools, how to win against the odds. They all need some skills to use as they should. If you want win against the odds, learn them or go to PvE overland content. Defending exploitation of LoS as fair way to fight odds is odd.

Ominer

Elendir2am wrote: »

@xDeusEJRx, @Ominer, @CompM4s

Isn't victory of 10 in fight 10v1 expectable and correct outcome?
Winning 1v10 for 1 should be exclusive for players with adequate skills.
Playing with LoS is exploiting poorness of combat mechanics for false feels of superiority over "10" when you fight 2 or 3 in realty.

ESO PvP contains several tools, how to win against the odds. They all need some skills to use as they should. If you want win against the odds, learn them or go to PvE overland content. Defending exploitation of LoS as fair way to fight odds is odd.

No, not really. The thing I and many others reallly love about the game is the absolutly insane skill gap between the 'worst' ESO pvper and the 'best' ESO pvper. This means that you can get situations were the 10 will lose to the 1 quite regularly, if the 1 is that much better at the game (as it should be). The 1 players has practiced, learned the skills, tools etc over a long time to be able to kill the 10 and gets rewarded for their effort.

Current ZOS devs don't like this skill gap (from the looks of recent changes) though and are looking to reduce it.

CompM4s

Elendir2am wrote: »

@xDeusEJRx, @Ominer, @CompM4s

Isn't victory of 10 in fight 10v1 expectable and correct outcome?
Winning 1v10 for 1 should be exclusive for players with adequate skills.
Playing with LoS is exploiting poorness of combat mechanics for false feels of superiority over "10" when you fight 2 or 3 in realty.

ESO PvP contains several tools, how to win against the odds. They all need some skills to use as they should. If you want win against the odds, learn them or go to PvE overland content. Defending exploitation of LoS as fair way to fight odds is odd.

Players that pull off 1vX’s have practiced, learned the skills, tools, etc. over a long time to be adequate enough to farm zergs. Thats why this thread was made by people complaining about being farmed by them.

Elendir2am

It is different cause if player win 1 vs 10 because they is so much better, then if player exploit LoS to fight only against 2 of 10 at time. First need high skill, second can be done by trained monkey.

It is about repeating same pattern and same type of builds. Yes, it take time to learn it at start, but it isnt different then repeating "perfect" combo on trial dummy.

The moment, they met some heavy CCer, they die relatively easy. People don't want play such build much however and so you can met them only rarely in PUG groups.

xDeusEJRx

Elendir2am wrote: »

@xDeusEJRx, @Ominer, @CompM4s

Isn't victory of 10 in fight 10v1 expectable and correct outcome?
Winning 1v10 for 1 should be exclusive for players with adequate skills.
Playing with LoS is exploiting poorness of combat mechanics for false feels of superiority over "10" when you fight 2 or 3 in realty.

ESO PvP contains several tools, how to win against the odds. They all need some skills to use as they should. If you want win against the odds, learn them or go to PvE overland content. Defending exploitation of LoS as fair way to fight odds is odd.

There is no "winning 1v10" without line of sighting period.
How do you win a 1v10 without vicious death or plaguebreak when the zerg is spamming chains on you every 2 seconds off CC cooldown, always keeping chokethorn healing enemies, or earthgores to save people when you get them to low HP. Or spamming dark convergence chain pulls on a singular person or 1 buttoning snipe on you from 20 meters away.
Better yet, let me ask you.

How do you even deal damage when there's 10 people running on top of each other body blocking? You can't even target damage on a single person when they are all body blocking each other because they're swarming you.

It just doesn't happen, there is no solo pvping against a zerg without LoS because zergs just mindlessly swarm you and it doesn't even give you a chance to feasibly do anything but run and heal. I can tell you've never played solo in this game if you think 1v10 without LoS is a possibility. You're not even given the chance to hit a single person because they all just swarm around each other like bees

Elendir2am

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

There is no "winning 1v10" without line of sighting period.
How do you win a 1v10 without vicious death or plaguebreak when the zerg is spamming chains on you every 2 seconds off CC cooldown, always keeping chokethorn healing enemies, or earthgores to save people when you get them to low HP. Or spamming dark convergence chain pulls on a singular person or 1 buttoning snipe on you from 20 meters away.
Better yet, let me ask you.

How do you even deal damage when there's 10 people running on top of each other body blocking? You can't even target damage on a single person when they are all body blocking each other because they're swarming you.

It just doesn't happen, there is no solo pvping against a zerg without LoS because zergs just mindlessly swarm you and it doesn't even give you a chance to feasibly do anything but run and heal. I can tell you've never played solo in this game if you think 1v10 without LoS is a possibility. You're not even given the chance to hit a single person because they all just swarm around each other like bees

If group of players can do CC, damage and cross-healing, they are organised group probably, not zerg. Zerg consist of random people without any coordination. It contains DD build or solo build mostly.

Defeating 10 organised player should be much harder then defeating 10-head zerg. So it should demand higher skill. You are defending poor combat mechanic as only way how to win in cause, when you should lose.

xDeusEJRx

Elendir2am wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

There is no "winning 1v10" without line of sighting period.
How do you win a 1v10 without vicious death or plaguebreak when the zerg is spamming chains on you every 2 seconds off CC cooldown, always keeping chokethorn healing enemies, or earthgores to save people when you get them to low HP. Or spamming dark convergence chain pulls on a singular person or 1 buttoning snipe on you from 20 meters away.
Better yet, let me ask you.

How do you even deal damage when there's 10 people running on top of each other body blocking? You can't even target damage on a single person when they are all body blocking each other because they're swarming you.

It just doesn't happen, there is no solo pvping against a zerg without LoS because zergs just mindlessly swarm you and it doesn't even give you a chance to feasibly do anything but run and heal. I can tell you've never played solo in this game if you think 1v10 without LoS is a possibility. You're not even given the chance to hit a single person because they all just swarm around each other like bees

If group of players can do CC, damage and cross-healing, they are organised group probably, not zerg. Zerg consist of random people without any coordination. It contains DD build or solo build mostly.

Defeating 10 organised player should be much harder then defeating 10-head zerg. So it should demand higher skill. You are defending poor combat mechanic as only way how to win in cause, when you should lose.

I'm not saying that I should win lol, I'm saying that zergs are already more powerful than almost every other group. I'm not saiyng I should be given the win 24/7 but zergs don't need more power than they already have. If they win 88% of fights they engage in they don't need to have that increased to 95%, there's barely anyone who can fight a zerg as is other than another zerg or a ball group.

Also no it's not always an organized group. There's always randoms who will just cc chain spam you, regardless of being in a group or not. Why do you think "zerg surfing" is a term in this game, people just follow around large groups to leech ap. Not everyone in a zerg is necessarily grouped up with another, people like to follow each other grouped or not. Which enables this behavior.

Also if you consider "line of sight" a poor combat mechanic, how is it not a poor combat mechanic to be body blocking damage with 10+ people? Is that not poor mechanics, how exactly do you target damage on people body blocking each other by constantly swarming?

To reiterate, it's not a matter of "abusing mechanics" or anything like that, the fact of the matter is, anyone who is fighting 1v10 barely has anything to crutch on whereas zergs will win 99% of scenarios and there's basically no chance to win ever. You can't sit through 10 people execute spamming you, CC spamming you, heal spamming their allies, snipe spamming you, light attack/heavy attack spamming you.
So using tactics to give your self a better chance to survive is fair. At the end of the day, zergs could always just decide to NOT split up their group ever. Crowns could just say "don't let them split you up from group" and stay tight-knit. But they don't. Does that mean it's a poor combat mechanic or lack of coordination on the group's part?

CompM4s

Los is not even a exploit. Its literally just taking cover behind a wall or rock to avoid being hit. You have to be braindead to want to just stand in a open field and face tank a zerg.

Elendir2am

CompM4s wrote: »

Los is not even a exploit. Its literally just taking cover behind a wall or rock to avoid being hit. You have to be braindead to want to just stand in a open field and face tank a zerg.

LoS is exploit of fact, that instant skills aren't really instant. Archeres who stand around with bows by their sides and do some weird "dodder" when you initiate instant skill. It start to progress, but then get canceled because of LoS and again and again. PvE mobs get ability shoot through walls so you cannot use it against them.

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Also no it's not always an organized group. There's always randoms who will just cc chain spam you, regardless of being in a group or not. Why do you think "zerg surfing" is a term in this game, people just follow around large groups to leech ap. Not everyone in a zerg is necessarily grouped up with another, people like to follow each other grouped or not. Which enables this behavior.

I know that CCers in disorganised group exists. I am one of them. I can actually serve "Tower monkeys" on silver plate to anyone, who want to shoot at them. So if there is enough DPS power around, they get killed. I would do it hardly with some mindless spamming.
But I also know, how rare it is, when I visited with diferent builds and thet I cannot rely on any faction-heal either.

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Also if you consider "line of sight" a poor combat mechanic, how is it not a poor combat mechanic to be body blocking damage with 10+ people? Is that not poor mechanics, how exactly do you target damage on people body blocking each other by constantly swarming?

Fact that enemy's bruisers don't allow you to get at their softer mates by simply walking through them are realistic.

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

To reiterate, it's not a matter of "abusing mechanics" or anything like that, the fact of the matter is, anyone who is fighting 1v10 barely has anything to crutch on whereas zergs will win 99% of scenarios and there's basically no chance to win ever. You can't sit through 10 people execute spamming you, CC spamming you, heal spamming their allies, snipe spamming you, light attack/heavy attack spamming you.
So using tactics to give your self a better chance to survive is fair. At the end of the day, zergs could always just decide to NOT split up their group ever. Crowns could just say "don't let them split you up from group" and stay tight-knit. But they don't. Does that mean it's a poor combat mechanic or lack of coordination on the group's part?

You write about zerg as about organised group still. There is often no "crown" to stack on and fragmentation are their inherent attribute. I am not sure, if your discussion about how powerful zerg is, is connected with zerg actually. It is organised group you describe in all three posts.

Holycannoli

Ominer wrote: »

No, not really. The thing I and many others reallly love about the game is the absolutly insane skill gap between the 'worst' ESO pvper and the 'best' ESO pvper. This means that you can get situations were the 10 will lose to the 1 quite regularly, if the 1 is that much better at the game (as it should be). The 1 players has practiced, learned the skills, tools etc over a long time to be able to kill the 10 and gets rewarded for their effort.

Current ZOS devs don't like this skill gap (from the looks of recent changes) though and are looking to reduce it.

Yes if the 1 skilled player with an optimized PvP build is up against 10 casual players in PvE gear that might not even be optimized for PvE let alone PvP it can and does happen.

But there is still an issue with resource towers. They're supposed to be for defending but as they currently are they serve little purpose but to play the LOS game.

xDeusEJRx

Elendir2am wrote: »

CompM4s wrote: »

Los is not even a exploit. Its literally just taking cover behind a wall or rock to avoid being hit. You have to be braindead to want to just stand in a open field and face tank a zerg.

LoS is exploit of fact, that instant skills aren't really instant. Archeres who stand around with bows by their sides and do some weird "dodder" when you initiate instant skill. It start to progress, but then get canceled because of LoS and again and again. PvE mobs get ability shoot through walls so you cannot use it against them.

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Also no it's not always an organized group. There's always randoms who will just cc chain spam you, regardless of being in a group or not. Why do you think "zerg surfing" is a term in this game, people just follow around large groups to leech ap. Not everyone in a zerg is necessarily grouped up with another, people like to follow each other grouped or not. Which enables this behavior.

I know that CCers in disorganised group exists. I am one of them. I can actually serve "Tower monkeys" on silver plate to anyone, who want to shoot at them. So if there is enough DPS power around, they get killed. I would do it hardly with some mindless spamming.
But I also know, how rare it is, when I visited with diferent builds and thet I cannot rely on any faction-heal either.

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Also if you consider "line of sight" a poor combat mechanic, how is it not a poor combat mechanic to be body blocking damage with 10+ people? Is that not poor mechanics, how exactly do you target damage on people body blocking each other by constantly swarming?

Fact that enemy's bruisers don't allow you to get at their softer mates by simply walking through them are realistic.

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

To reiterate, it's not a matter of "abusing mechanics" or anything like that, the fact of the matter is, anyone who is fighting 1v10 barely has anything to crutch on whereas zergs will win 99% of scenarios and there's basically no chance to win ever. You can't sit through 10 people execute spamming you, CC spamming you, heal spamming their allies, snipe spamming you, light attack/heavy attack spamming you.
So using tactics to give your self a better chance to survive is fair. At the end of the day, zergs could always just decide to NOT split up their group ever. Crowns could just say "don't let them split you up from group" and stay tight-knit. But they don't. Does that mean it's a poor combat mechanic or lack of coordination on the group's part?

You write about zerg as about organised group still. There is often no "crown" to stack on and fragmentation are their inherent attribute. I am not sure, if your discussion about how powerful zerg is, is connected with zerg actually. It is organised group you describe in all three posts.

It absolutely does not refer to organized groups
When the hammer drops, do you think I could run up and slap the back line of a hammer faction stack zerg effectively? (assuming the hammer doesn't jump me).
No, never. Not everyone is grouped with the hammer because of group limitations but i'm still gonna get hit with 1 million snipes, radiants from templars, chain spams, etc etc. There is no organization because they can't even possible group but still can get 30+, 40+ whatever the number is.

It has nothing to do with being organized or not. It's just that's how players behave especially when they severely outnumber everyone and don't even need to worry about managing themselves

NordSwordnBoard

Shame upon Leonidas, for he abused LoS like a tower monkey instead of facing Xerxes in the open field.

ArgonianAustin

I also want castle tops to be destructible again too. Was really fun hiding up in keeps or trying to jump the broken part.